Hate Honda's stance on infotainment

[takemorepills]

Just wanted to take one last stab at this topic. Some of you may recognize me as a very opinionated critic of the Honda infotainment system from the other 2 threads dealing with infotainment issues.
Since there are people in those threads that need help I am not gonna sidetrack those threads with my opinion, starting my own to bash on Honda for their insistence on tech integration.

So, I just bought a different car basically because no news about Si and also a little bit because I don't like the mandatory infotainment in the CivicX. Specifically, I don't like:
-Lack of physical knobs, like a volume knob
-lack of "old school" options
-fact that it is trendy technology
-integration of HVAC, this one right here really tweaks me...WTH Honda??
Anyway, my dislikes are just my opinion, others will have other opinions.

Now, to my point....I bought a 2016 GTI that also has a form of infotainment very similar as any new car today. In many ways, the GTI's "MIB2" I prefer to the CivicX....has CD, SD card slots (2!) and traditional knobs. Plus, the HVAC is separate. And, like the CivicX it has Android Auto, Mirror Link and Car Play. I am not sure if it is Android based.....

But, something happened to me that compels me to write this thread. I tried to hook up my Samsung Galaxy phone to my new car, and it wouldn't recognize my phone on the AppConnect screen. Oh, silly me, I am so old school with my Samsung S3. Turns out, Android Auto only lives on Android 5.x+ devices, and that means I need at least an S5...or some other new phone...so now I am starting to get pissed....so why would I get so mad??
There is nothing wrong with my phone. I am not a phone geek, but the hardware specs on it are at least as good, if not better than many of the Android 5.x phones my provider offers. Only high end phones are gonna have better specs. The S3 was hot when released, and is still very powerful coming into 2016. I never have issues with my trusty S3. The problem is that the industry has actively decided to withhold Android 5.x from my "old" S3. The S3 CAN run Android 5.x, it's just that what sense would that make to a company in the business of selling NEW phones???

Damnit guys I know I am ranting, but lend a sympathetic ear please....this gets more frustrating.
Ok, so we know the industry has forced the mighty S3 into planned obsolescence. Takemorepills, just get over it, right?? Get a new phone, DUDE!!! Right??
Here's what happens if I get a new phone:
-my trusty S3 goes offline and I need to begin a new relationship with some other brand of phone and I need to deal with whatever bugs it may bring.
-If I want a S5, $400 from my carrier. With the S6 already out, I wonder how long until the S5 is "obsolete"??

Worst of all, if I change my phones, I lose my current service pricing. I pay $35 for unlimited voice, text and 2.5GB, which has proven plenty for me. I will then need to pay $45 for the same service if I change phones.

I'm very frustrated, I was forced out of my previous LG Optimus V Android phone when the overall market dropped Android 2.x support and my apps started to malfunction, specifically apps that connect to stuff like Pandora.

My old LG phone connected perfectly to my wife's car navigation which has Pandora on it, I could play Pandora with album art and full control on the navi. When I got my S3, the Pandora app in her navi didn't like my S3 and I couldn't get it to work. Now I have a new car and it doesn't want to fully play with my "old" phone.

OK, so WTH is the point of my rant??

Why do I need to feel that my car is trying to push me into the "economy" of "needing" to "upgrade" and pay into the "system"?? In the case of my GTI or CivicX, or any new car for that matter, I need to buy a new phone to be fully compatible with my new car, which means I also need to pay more per month for service. Why in the hell do people actually want this crap in a car?? Even if I buy a new phone, can anyone guarantee me that the car stereo will work PERFECTLY after I invest all this EXTRA money into my "connected life"???

WTF car manufacturers, just give us the damn option of a regular car stereo. You know, KNOW that someday the car stereo in your CivicX or my GTI will be so "outdated" and at some point won't fully work with some future phone. This is BS.

Why do people want this crap baked in to their car? At the VW dealer, they had a bunch of 2015 GTI's sitting there unsold. People are buying the 2016s..what's the difference? Between 2015 to 2016 VW updated the driver assist crap and the infotainment. The word is out that gen 2 smart tech in GTI is better than gen 1, and now the dealer is sitting on 2015's. Why? the car is the same other than it's tech equipment...

ARRGHH!! Honda, why can't you offer a "downgrade" solution for those of us that don't want to join collective? I understand that Honda NEEDS to add this crap to satisfy the market. But why can't Honda also offer a downgrade for those of us who would like to own the car 10+ years and don't appreciate a computer in our dash that is certain to give issues later on?

Listen, if the smartphone market can "kill" people's older phones by obsoleting them, what delirium are people in that they don't think the same will happen to their infotainment system in their not-so-old car?? Because 2 of my phones have been forced obsolete (well, the LG was underpowered, but my S3 is very competent still) I have no trust that the infotainment systems also won't be forced obsolete.

Sponsored

 

[josby]

I can sympathize somewhat. I'm still using a four year old Droid4 because it was the last good Android phone made with a real keyboard (until the Priv last month, anyway). The phone industry forcing everyone to the inferior typing experience of an on-screen keyboard just to make phones a little slimmer drives me nuts.

I too wish they'd just offer a double-DIN slot so you could choose your own stereo. But, Honda is the last company you should be expecting to offer a downgrade solution. No other company offers as few options on their cars as Honda. Just the fact that they let you choose whether to have Sensing or not on all Civic trims is a pretty radical departure for them. Think about how many years (decades?) your only trim choices were DX, LX, or EX, and your only options on those were color and transmission. I'd look to someone like Ford, who offers literally 1000's of different ways to configure each car they sell, for any hope of such an option. Until they do, Honda certainly never will.

As for needing a newer phone, I don't find that that unusual. If you bought a new car with a CD player, you wouldn't expect your tapes to play in it. Granted, the tape-to-CD transition took a long time, and you could get cars that had either (or both). But the phone industry moves way faster than physical media did. As someone who's done some Android programming, I can understand them setting a minimum version. There are capabilities missing from older Android versions that would limit the functionality of Android Auto.

I think you're mistaken that Android 5.x would run fine on your S3. I have a 2012 Nexus 7 tablet that DID get Android 5.1, and it runs horribly. The web is full of people complaining about the performance and asking how to go back to 4.x. Comparing the specs, your S3 has the exact same processor (ARM Cortex-A9) as my tablet, although clocked at 1400MHz instead of 1300, and they both have the same amount of RAM (1GB). The screen resolution is almost the same, too (1280x720 vs 1280x800). You'd be miserable with 5.x on that phone.

You may be right that 10 years from now, the then-current phones won't work with 2016 cars. I would *hope* that Google and Apple, while finding it reasonable to expect you to upgrade your phone to work with your new car, would not also expect you to upgrade your car to work with your new phone. In other words, that they would keep all future phones backward-compatible for Android Auto and CarPlay because a lot of people keep their cars for much longer than they keep phones. But maybe not.

For me, I don't find the features of Android Auto all that compelling, so I don't really care that it won't work with the phone I have. Why do you feel pushed? Can't you do everything in your new car with your 2012 phone that you could've done in a 2012 model car?

P.S. one tip I've learned for keeping an Android phone for many years is do not update the apps on your phone. They just get bigger and more bloated and therefore run slower on older hardware. E.g. the latest Shazam runs like crap on my Droid4, but the version from a few years ago runs fine and offers the same functionality. Same for Facebook, Yahoo Mail, etc. Learn how to copy the .APK files for your downloaded apps to your PC so that if you need to reformat your phone, you can reinstall those old versions back on instead of getting stuck with the latest bloated versions from the Play Store.

 

[takemorepills]

My S3 works fine for BT streaming and control. I'm getting by just fine that way.

But I see what they're trying to do.

I was one of 3 customers buying a GTI yesterday. All 2016s. They had to bring in all 3 of our cars from different dealers. No one wanted the 2015s. To me that says a lot about what's happening these days

 

[dick w]

You may be right that 10 years from now, the then-current phones won't work with 2016 cars.

The first car I had with HFL was a 2004 Acura TL. Its code was never updated. I'm pretty confident it would still work--at its original limited capability--with my Nexus 5. The 2004 TL's optical drive's DVD-A capability, and its cassette player, would both still be equally stupid. And the cassette player would likely not work as the pinch roller would probably have deteriorated too much by now. Even if you still had any cassette tapes. Some technologies survive. Others don't or are unnecessary to begin with. Trick is telling which will be which in advance.

 

[bhorn]

You must be with Verizon or Sprint, otherwise you would be able to change phones and providers more easily. Have you checked out Swappa.com? You can get a used phone for a fraction of the price. I've gotten two phones from there.

As for Android updates, Nexus is the best. I don't think I could own a carrier branded phone ever again.

The VW sounds fun. Fahrvergnügen

 

[takemorepills]

You must be with Verizon or Sprint, otherwise you would be able to change phones and providers more easily. Have you checked out Swappa.com? You can get a used phone for a fraction of the price. I've gotten two phones from there.

As for Android updates, Nexus is the best. I don't think I could own a carrier branded phone ever again.

The VW sounds fun. Fahrvergnügen

Well I'm a cheapskate, I have Virgin Mobile. Have had it for years, everything's OK about Virgin but their selection of phones can be pretty poor at times of the year. Right now is poor. No S6 this year, but when the S5 came out they had it as one of the first providers. I think they also have iPhones....

The first car I had with HFL was a 2004 Acura TL. Its code was never updated. I'm pretty confident it would still work--at its original limited capability--with my Nexus 5. The 2004 TL's optical drive's DVD-A capability, and its cassette player, would both still be equally stupid. And the cassette player would likely not work as the pinch roller would probably have deteriorated too much by now. Even if you still had any cassette tapes. Some technologies survive. Others don't or are unnecessary to begin with. Trick is telling which will be which in advance.

I hear you. Here's the difference: The tape deck in my 29 yr old Prelude crapped out. I threw a $100 Pioneer mechless headunit into it, no big deal. Also, the earlier in car tech like navigation and bluetooth integration was all closed source, fully baked tech. We have a 10 year old car with navigation, it works fine, and is in fact more reliable than my Google Maps. Google Maps is way more feature dense and always up to date, but it crashes frequently compared to our in car navi crashes=never.

Now, people are starting to be trained to accept half-baked products on the premise that they have upgradeable platforms. "Here you go, it's a little buggy but we'll keep throwing updates at it, the bugs will morph into other bugs, and eventually we'll get it sorted...we promise!!!" And in the end, right when our tech gets sorted, it becomes unsupported and incompatible to newer tech.

I will admit the infotainment, when working, is cool. But it nags at people to "stay up to date". And when you can't change it out like my Prelude, that means change out the car.....I know a case could be made that someone could ignore that and keep the car forever. But I bet the car execs are hoping people feel even more compelled to keep "upgrading" cars due to in car tech than before.

And, BTW, the new tech in the CivicX is much cheaper than a CD player HU would be. By deleted any mechanical buttons, knobs and optical drives the CivicX HU is dirt cheap to produce. Instead of hardware, it's main cost is the software. I believe this is another reason car manufacturers want to design this type of system.

 

[dick w]

BTW, the new tech in the CivicX is much cheaper than a CD player HU would be. By deleted any mechanical buttons, knobs and optical drives the CivicX HU is dirt cheap to produce. Instead of hardware, it's main cost is the software. I believe this is another reason car manufacturers want to design this type of system.

Ya think?

 

[dick w]

Wait until they figure out that their huge warranty costs (e.g., swapping out flawless head units and amplifiers) are driven 110% by software issues that they can solve, once, and beyond that the marginal cost to put the software in the next car down the production line is zero. Customers putting value, and paying $s, towards features that cost them $0 to reproduce, once engineered, surely looks more attractive to them than the old fashioned car business.

 

[dick w]

At the VW dealer, they had a bunch of 2015 GTI's sitting there unsold. People are buying the 2016s..what's the difference? Between 2015 to 2016 VW updated the driver assist crap and the infotainment. The word is out that gen 2 smart tech in GTI is better than gen 1, and now the dealer is sitting on 2015's. Why? the car is the same other than it's tech equipment...

You make this observation and yet still don't see why Honda, and VW, BTW, aren't interested in offering a 1995-vintage feature set in the audio system? You could have put your money where your mouth is and gotten a great deal on one of the 2015s, I'm sure.

 

[takemorepills]

Wait until they figure out that their huge warranty costs (e.g., swapping out flawless head units and amplifiers) are driven 110% by software issues that they can solve, once, and beyond that the marginal cost to put the software in the next car down the production line is zero. Customers putting value, and paying $s, towards features that cost them $0 to reproduce, once engineered, surely looks more attractive to them than the old fashioned car business.

Oh yeah man, totally agree. The service side of Honda is just gonna throw parts at it. Loose connections? Defective unit?? Yeah right. It's buggy code.

You make this observation and yet still don't see why Honda, and VW, BTW, aren't interested in offering a 1995-vintage feature set in the audio system? You could have put your money where your mouth is and gotten a great deal on one of the 2015s, I'm sure.

So, I would have. I was motivated by the fact that 2016's have rear view camera (2015's didn't, and it's a pretty cool motorized system, and that's for my wife she's always wanted this feature) and the 2016 has an upgraded turbo, that is supposedly awesome for tuning....yeah I coulda saved $5K. oh well.

 

[hondo]

Not sure why you are taking it out on the auto-industry. I doubt Honda is the one that decides which versions of Android will support Android Auto. Get mad at Google for that. They certainly aren't the ones that decide which OS updates your phone will get. Get mad at Samsung and your carrier for that. They didn't decide that changing your phone will cause a data plan change. Get mad at your carrier for that. I sympathize and wish that Honda would make it easier to decouple the infotainment system from the rest of the car so you can put in a different head unit that better meets your needs. But you also seem to want Android Auto while complaining that they don't offer old-school systems. That doesn't really compute.

 

[takemorepills]

But you also seem to want Android Auto while complaining that they don't offer old-school systems. That doesn't really compute.

I'm sure I'm not expressing myself so clearly. What I meant was that I was like "hell, might as well hook up my phone to my new car and see what this AA is all about.......denied" then it occurred to me what the hell the industry is up to. It's not just as simple as keeping up to date. Keeping up to date is a revenue stream with real costs to us. This is not a real asset anymore. We are buying bits of time with technology, and they cause it to die. Wanna keep up? Pay more. Consume more.

Honda didn't need to put this malignant tumor into the dash the way they did. My whole beef is the damn HVAC integration. The average Joe car owner isn't gonna be able to easily remove the HU when the time comes for it to go. You gotta do something about the HVAC controls.

Whatever, you guys certainly have to admit that even though AM radio, 8 tracks, tapes, CDs etc had their 5 minutes of fame, those technologies came and went at a much slower, manageable pace. AND, you could easily change the tech in your car to "keep up".

I do not want/need Android Auto. I looked into it to see if I could get my phone to 5.x and that's when all of this crap hit me. I'm keeping my S3. I loaded up all of my music onto SD's and put them in the GTI. Honestly, I like it way better that way.

I'm not just being old school, I have a CD player in my new car. Can't find ONE CD that I would want to put into it. I am spoiled by digital. But the smartphone thing....obvious ploy to turn a once untapped area into a revenue stream for everyone.

 

[PRak_CivX]

Just wanted to take one last stab at this topic. Some of you may recognize me as a very opinionated critic of the Honda infotainment system from the other 2 threads dealing with infotainment issues.
Since there are people in those threads that need help I am not gonna sidetrack those threads with my opinion, starting my own to bash on Honda for their insistence on tech integration.

So, I just bought a different car basically because no news about Si and also a little bit because I don't like the mandatory infotainment in the CivicX. Specifically, I don't like:
-Lack of physical knobs, like a volume knob
-lack of "old school" options
-fact that it is trendy technology
-integration of HVAC, this one right here really tweaks me...WTH Honda??
Anyway, my dislikes are just my opinion, others will have other opinions.

Now, to my point....I bought a 2016 GTI that also has a form of infotainment very similar as any new car today. In many ways, the GTI's "MIB2" I prefer to the CivicX....has CD, SD card slots (2!) and traditional knobs. Plus, the HVAC is separate. And, like the CivicX it has Android Auto, Mirror Link and Car Play. I am not sure if it is Android based.....

But, something happened to me that compels me to write this thread. I tried to hook up my Samsung Galaxy phone to my new car, and it wouldn't recognize my phone on the AppConnect screen. Oh, silly me, I am so old school with my Samsung S3. Turns out, Android Auto only lives on Android 5.x+ devices, and that means I need at least an S5...or some other new phone...so now I am starting to get pissed....so why would I get so mad??
There is nothing wrong with my phone. I am not a phone geek, but the hardware specs on it are at least as good, if not better than many of the Android 5.x phones my provider offers. Only high end phones are gonna have better specs. The S3 was hot when released, and is still very powerful coming into 2016. I never have issues with my trusty S3. The problem is that the industry has actively decided to withhold Android 5.x from my "old" S3. The S3 CAN run Android 5.x, it's just that what sense would that make to a company in the business of selling NEW phones???

Damnit guys I know I am ranting, but lend a sympathetic ear please....this gets more frustrating.
Ok, so we know the industry has forced the mighty S3 into planned obsolescence. Takemorepills, just get over it, right?? Get a new phone, DUDE!!! Right??
Here's what happens if I get a new phone:
-my trusty S3 goes offline and I need to begin a new relationship with some other brand of phone and I need to deal with whatever bugs it may bring.
-If I want a S5, $400 from my carrier. With the S6 already out, I wonder how long until the S5 is "obsolete"??

Worst of all, if I change my phones, I lose my current service pricing. I pay $35 for unlimited voice, text and 2.5GB, which has proven plenty for me. I will then need to pay $45 for the same service if I change phones.

I'm very frustrated, I was forced out of my previous LG Optimus V Android phone when the overall market dropped Android 2.x support and my apps started to malfunction, specifically apps that connect to stuff like Pandora.

My old LG phone connected perfectly to my wife's car navigation which has Pandora on it, I could play Pandora with album art and full control on the navi. When I got my S3, the Pandora app in her navi didn't like my S3 and I couldn't get it to work. Now I have a new car and it doesn't want to fully play with my "old" phone.

OK, so WTH is the point of my rant??

Why do I need to feel that my car is trying to push me into the "economy" of "needing" to "upgrade" and pay into the "system"?? In the case of my GTI or CivicX, or any new car for that matter, I need to buy a new phone to be fully compatible with my new car, which means I also need to pay more per month for service. Why in the hell do people actually want this crap in a car?? Even if I buy a new phone, can anyone guarantee me that the car stereo will work PERFECTLY after I invest all this EXTRA money into my "connected life"???

WTF car manufacturers, just give us the damn option of a regular car stereo. You know, KNOW that someday the car stereo in your CivicX or my GTI will be so "outdated" and at some point won't fully work with some future phone. This is BS.

Why do people want this crap baked in to their car? At the VW dealer, they had a bunch of 2015 GTI's sitting there unsold. People are buying the 2016s..what's the difference? Between 2015 to 2016 VW updated the driver assist crap and the infotainment. The word is out that gen 2 smart tech in GTI is better than gen 1, and now the dealer is sitting on 2015's. Why? the car is the same other than it's tech equipment...

ARRGHH!! Honda, why can't you offer a "downgrade" solution for those of us that don't want to join collective? I understand that Honda NEEDS to add this crap to satisfy the market. But why can't Honda also offer a downgrade for those of us who would like to own the car 10+ years and don't appreciate a computer in our dash that is certain to give issues later on?

Listen, if the smartphone market can "kill" people's older phones by obsoleting them, what delirium are people in that they don't think the same will happen to their infotainment system in their not-so-old car?? Because 2 of my phones have been forced obsolete (well, the LG was underpowered, but my S3 is very competent still) I have no trust that the infotainment systems also won't be forced obsolete.

Get a new phone Dude... Sorry, couldn't help myself.

 

[takemorepills]

Get a new phone Dude... Sorry, couldn't help myself.

What kind of phone do you have?

 

[PRak_CivX]

What kind of phone do you have?

HTC One through Sprint, two years old now. Seems to work great with Android Auto on my EX-L. I stream Amazon music, use Google Maps (not sure why anyone would get Navi), talk and text hands free. Love it.

Sponsored