Hands on with TSP's Stage 1 tune for the 1.5T (non-Si)

[varge]

@3:23 , before beating on anything, with IAT2=39 (not head soaked) , KC still on .53 and RPM at 4500 , he has ignition retard of 7.5 where it should be 5. On the same pull @3:24 he's KC has jumped to .59 at only 5000rpm.
At the next 3rd gear WOT @3:32 the engine recovers and retard is 6.5 steady until 5800rpm / IAT2 still at 41 (still not heat soaked)
Then changes to 4th @3:36 at part throttle and hells break loose with retard of -12

From that point on, KC rises and stays high, Knock retard stays ~9 no matter IAT2. Even in 5th gear pulls he is not that badly heat soaked as his IAT2 will only rise 10C above his starting temps and 3rd/4th gear pulls stay mostly close to 40-42 which is not bad.

If I were you @SilverArrow I would switch to factory, run a log 60-200 changing gears ~6000rpm and if KC stays put, do the same with starter 21 with the scaled top end MAF to see if there is something in the TSP that your ECU doesn't like.

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[kytos]

@3:23 , before beating on anything, with IAT2=39 (not head soaked) , KC still on .53 and RPM at 4500 , he has ignition retard of 7.5 where it should be 5. On the same pull @3:24 he's KC has jumped to .59 at only 5000rpm.
At the next 3rd gear WOT @3:32 the engine recovers and retard is 6.5 steady until 5800rpm / IAT2 still at 41 (still not heat soaked)

That happens to me usually but not allways, with any tune, when ECT is at 90 or more ºC comming from the city to a highway, slight rise of knock control but not so much.

Knock control stays there because he is constantly beating the engine, not letting knock control to relearn. I don't see anything unusuall, at least comparing what i've seen on my engine logs over 3 years. I'm not an expert tuner so I may be missing something here, maybe Drob or TSP can check his log.

 

[Andre80]

mine was like that too,

 

[gtman]

That happens to me usually but not allways, with any tune, when ECT is at 90 or more ºC comming from the city to a highway, slight rise of knock control but not so much.

Knock control stays there because he is constantly beating the engine, not letting knock control to relearn. I don't see anything unusuall, at least comparing what i've seen on my engine logs over 3 years. I'm not an expert tuner so I may be missing something here, maybe Drob or TSP can check his log.

Total agreement. But, like you, I'm not a pro tuner.

The only time my knock control stayed elevated like that was a couple years ago on Hondata. There were high ambient temps and I did a number of hard pulls in a row. My knock control touched the .9 range. After some sedate driving the number came down. It just seems like Honda chose to be super protective of this base 1.5T engine. I know with the Si, knock control seems to shoot up quite a bit less.

 

[SilverArrow]

If I were you @SilverArrow I would switch to factory, run a log 60-200 changing gears ~6000rpm and if KC stays put, do the same with starter 21 with the scaled top end MAF to see if there is something in the TSP that your ECU doesn't like.

Thanks varge, i tried with stock and with ktuner 21 (with the scaled top).
With stock KC was 0.65 max: with ktuner 21 was the same of TSP.

 

[SilverArrow]

maybe Drob or TSP can check his log.

I sent them my log: the answer was that the cause could be bad gas or environmental factors.

 

[Myx]

That happens to me usually but not allways, with any tune, when ECT is at 90 or more ºC comming from the city to a highway, slight rise of knock control but not so much.

So do you think if the ECT was kept lower than 90c (Ex: 80c or 85c), with everything else being the same, the knock control would stay put or not rise as aggressively?

 

[kytos]

So do you think if the ECT was kept lower than 90c (Ex: 80c or 85c), with everything else being the same, the knock control would stay put or not rise as aggressively?

Well, this is something I'm still trying to understand. Theorically 90ºC isn't that bad, and there is a table to compensate timing vs ECT. What I've observed is when I drive around town at low speeds, the ECU likes to keep the heat (for efficiency I think) and both ECT1 and ECT2 start to rise up to 90+ (engine usually run at 80~85 ºC), at that moment if you do a WOT pull is more likely to get knock control rised, even if the intercooler is cold. The CAI and FMIC helped at this but still happens sometimes.

Also I've noticed when climbing a hill on a mountain road for enough time, the engine will go up to 103/5 ºC (221 ºF) until the cooling cycle starts (thermostat and fan), but this doesn't cause as much knock (I try to not push it too hard) unless you don't stop beating the hell out of it.

 

[Andre80]

in wot is it normal to have knock retard 6 / 7.5?

 

[varge]

in wot is it normal to have knock retard 6 / 7.5?

Yes, 6.5 is the minimum after 5300rpm and up to 8 is very reasonable if you wot for 3rd and 4th , say to go from 60 to 160 or a bit more

 

[Andre80]

I have a friend with tsp 1 and this air intake

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MST-Perf...-for-Honda-Civic-Sport-1-5T-FK7-/273397651448

I checked his logs, he has LTFT at 0 according to you, it is good or bad for European ECUs


in no European ecu have I ever seen ltft at 0

log

 

[varge]

I have a friend with tsp 1 and this air intake

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MST-Perf...-for-Honda-Civic-Sport-1-5T-FK7-/273397651448

I checked his logs, he has LTFT at 0 according to you, it is good or bad for European ECUs


in no European ecu have I ever seen ltft at 0

log

It seems that his MAF is very well calibrated and his average STFT is close to zero on part throttle / low load so LTFT stays 0 or 0.8 . This is very nice actually.

 

[Andre80]

I'm curious to see the logs of those who have the 27won that I would like to buy but with shipping and taxes it costs me madness, this seems to me excellent

i would like to have uba reply from tsp or derreck

 

[varge]

I'm curious to see the logs of those who have the 27won that I would like to buy but with shipping and taxes it costs me madness, this seems to me excellent

i would like to have uba reply from tsp or derreck

Ask your friend what is his O2 reading at WOT from 5000-6000rpm , if it is close to target AFR or not

 

[kytos]

I'm curious to see the logs of those who have the 27won that I would like to buy but with shipping and taxes it costs me madness, this seems to me excellent

i would like to have uba reply from tsp or derreck

Similar to stock, for me means LTFT at -7%

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