Got my Ktuner in, and losing fuel economy on the dual starter map.

[CXRs]

Hey all! I'm trying to get everything worked out with the car, and want to be a little more knowledgeable about it before I go messing with tune settings.

I have a ~20% decrease in fuel economy when running the dual starter map and cruising in eco. I don't think I am consciously using the throttle too much more, and I'm keeping to reasonable speeds. The only maintenance items I am aware of needing are CVT fluid change and an air filter(both on the way, AFE dry and Honda OEM). I know the filter can affect power/mpg, but I needed it before the tune and haven't been seeing fuel economy this bad before. LTFT is at about -7%, and has been very slowly climbing since the tune install(maybe 60 miles driven total). I plan on waiting to go messing with the base map until after the filter is in.

I am running the car through moderate city traffic, leaving it on eco using 93, and seeing about 27 mpg. Going through some other threads, it seems like the base maps include a good bit of safety in the commanded AFR, to account for poorly designed intakes. While cruising, I haven't seen the AFR go above 14.7 except on sudden throttle(Eventually I would like to work towards 15.5-16:1 lean cruising.) It typically hovers between 13.5-14.5, which seems a good bit too rich for cruise conditions. I'm hoping the air filter gets me about where I need to be, but considering the fuel trims are deliberately not pulling more fuel, I'm wondering if it will make much of a difference at all.

I realize I've barfed up a whole bunch of info, but I guess what this boils down to is I'm trying to find out if I will have to adjust the tune to pull some fuel out on the stock MAF to achieve the factory fuel economy. Anyone have any insight?

Thank you!

Sponsored

 

[KTuner]

The MAF curve is factory, so that wouldn't be where any changes are. You can datalog and review to see if you're getting into boost at lighter throttles and dial back ECO mode targets if you want.

 

[CXRs]

The MAF curve is factory, so that wouldn't be where any changes are. You can datalog and review to see if you're getting into boost at lighter throttles and dial back ECO mode targets if you want.

Awesome, thank you! I think that's gonna be the plan. I'm gonna wait until the air filter goes in before I make any changes. IIRC, isn't there a quick option for Factory MAF calibration vs the custom one? If so, does that effectively optimize the fueling for the factory MAF, and take out some of the extra enrichment left in there? Or is that just a default that takes the whole calibration back to the stock-like fueling tables?

 

[KTuner]

That MAF scale is only useful at high boost if you don't have closed loop still correcting.

 

[CXRs]

Alright, thank you. I will update the post once I get some time and the filter in.

 

[gtman]

What quick adjustments, enables and settings are you using for your starter tune? In all honesty 27 mpg in city driving isn't that bad.

By the way, generally speaking, ECO mode on these cars suck. The reduced throttle response will have you going deeper into the throttle which defeats the whole concept.

 

[CXRs]

I am using the quick spool and that's all. I haven't actually made too many other changes. I was under the assumption that eco with the dual map just takes you to the stage 0 map, ie: stock boost, improved response, etc. I like eco because I noticed it keeps the cruise rpm low on the highway, but it doesn't seem to do that too much now.

 

[gtman]

I am using the quick spool and that's all. I haven't actually made too many other changes. I was under the assumption that eco with the dual map just takes you to the stage 0 map, ie: stock boost, improved response, etc. I like eco because I noticed it keeps the cruise rpm low on the highway, but it doesn't seem to do that too much now.

It does give you stock psi numbers but those factory eco "features" like softer throttle response and reduced a/c output are intact with KTuner. There is a setting to normalize throttle feel a bit in the quick adjustments.

It doesn't change cruise rpm at all. At least not that I've seen. For example, cruise on the highway at 60 mph; press the Econ button. Do you see a reduction in rpms?

May I suggest you try the tune with early spool off and see if that improves your mpgs?

 

[CXRs]

That solid. I hadn't even thought of that. As for rpm, I have noticed a very slight drop in rpm, but that could be the dampened throttle response. I always kind of assumed it just reduced throttle inputs, and that may have been an effect.

 

[Ron21]

any updates on your mpg while early spool is off? Or anyone?

 

[Romeoridgee]

it pays to play

 

[CXRs]

it pays to play

This is the mentality that prevents innovation, and isn't very helpful to a discussion seeking a resolution to an issue. It doesn't have to cost fuel economy if all you're changing is software, and that's even more true if you retain switchable maps.

any updates on your mpg while early spool is off? Or anyone?

It's been much better with early spool off. Highway trips can still see 36-37mpg indicated, and about the same calculated, maybe +/- 1 either way. City driving is still not great, between 25 and 30 depending on conditions. If it's boost weather, it goes down because I can never resist a good pull.

 

[Romeoridgee]

I was being serious. More gas pedal means more fuel usage. Unless you never try gunning it and live a full tank without boosting, your mpgs will stay down. You changed a map. Probably has more boost which means more fuel when you’re pulling.

 

[calvin13386]

The MAF curve is factory, so that wouldn't be where any changes are. You can datalog and review to see if you're getting into boost at lighter throttles and dial back ECO mode targets if you want.

I did a starter dual 21psi flash for a friend he also commented after flash he finds the fuel economy getting worse. I also told him that the MAF curve was factory which was same as what he was using before the flash.

However, I came to the conclusion that one of the factor was probably the throttle response was adjusted to "improved". So he was driving the same style after the flash, but feels the car was faster and at the same time fuel economy getting worse due to the improved throttle respond.

The other reason I am wondering was is it after the flash, the ecu LTFT was being reset? Which means before the flash, the ecu already monitored the trend and using the LTFT to adjust the AFR. After the flash, maybe the LTFT was reset to 0, immediately there is a feel on fuel economy getting worse as factory AFR was designed to be rich. Maybe I am wrong but need Ktuner to advise is this is true?

 

[bcrichster]

What quick adjustments, enables and settings are you using for your starter tune? In all honesty 27 mpg in city driving isn't that bad.

By the way, generally speaking, ECO mode on these cars suck. The reduced throttle response will have you going deeper into the throttle which defeats the whole concept.

? All the way. I noticed this too, now I oy use Eco on Cruise control on highways, with AC on. Otherwise, isn't touched

I am using the quick spool and that's all. I haven't actually made too many other changes. I was under the assumption that eco with the dual map just takes you to the stage 0 map, ie: stock boost, improved response, etc. I like eco because I noticed it keeps the cruise rpm low on the highway, but it doesn't seem to do that too much now.

Tbh, it's useless in cities. Use on highways while AC and CC is on, There where you'll see a difference

Sponsored