Getting new rotors and pads installed... by who?

[charleswrivers]

...and don't drive the car anymore. The transmission is done. It will have to be replaced. I'm hoping you had it serviced recently and that is the cause (nothing else makes sense). It should be towed to wherever did the service and it's on them to acquire a new transmission and replace it. They aren't rebuilt (unfortunately) at this point... at least I haven't heard of anyone getting one rebuilt. Always replaced... despite their simplicity.

Edit: remembering your inspection sheet... I wonder if they did a 'color test' on the CVT fluid... pulling out the fill plug (not sure if it has an integral dipstick but I assume it dies like a conventional AT) to dab a cloth and inspect it. If there's anything on your inspection sheet about your transmission fluid, that's almost certainly when it was pulled. There's been several folks with engine oil plugs not tightened from the dealer causing it to work itself loose further and draining the oil out while driving and wrecking the engine. They all got their engines replaced. It sounds like you're finding yourself in a similar boat.

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[oliviaiiii]

Wow! Did the dealer just do an ATF change recently?

No I had it serviced 10 month ago at another dealership. So either they forgot to put it back back then, or this recent visit for check up + oil change+tire rotation at this dealership, The check list has a fluid level check including “oil coolant /power steering fluid/brake fluids/ windshield washer fluid /automatic transmission fluid”, the technician marked it Red and comments* Note: Brake fluid Not filled—fluid level indicates pad wear.” They only tell me the brake fluid is low. Never a word about coolant and transmission. I am not sure whether they’ve checked it at all.

I have all the service done by dealers in the past since bought the car I don’t pop the hood unless windshield fluid refills.

I find a thread with pictures and mine looked exactly the same as this OP, the OP thought his plug was missing, but if you look closely at the pictures, the black spiral thingy next to it that’s the fill plug.

https://www.civicx.com/threads/cvt-leak.28852/#post-483842

 

[charleswrivers]

the fill plug is only a plug, there is no dipstick,

the only reason to remove this plug would be to pour fluid into the tranny,

there is a seperate check plug on the front of the tranny to check the fluid level

the only time and reason you would remove the fill plug is if you have drained the fluid and are replacing it

Sounds a lot like the setup on the MTs.

@oliviaiiii … whether this was done month ago or just recently... the inspection recently done should have caught the missing drain plug IMO since a level check was on the checklist. Contact then, get the car towed there. They're going to have to make it right.

 

[Gruber]

any mechanic who does that should be fired,

16 year old kids can do that at jizzy lube.....use a damn torque wrench

People who change oil at dealer service are the same kids as at jiffy lubes.

Requirements for Entry Level Service Technician at a Honda dealer:

• High School diploma or equivalent
• Experience as an express/quick lube technician is preferred
• Attention to detail
• Ability to follow processes to ensure quality and safety
• Valid in-state driver’s license and have and maintain an acceptable, safe driving record

Requirements for a Honda Master Technician:

• Ability to identify the problem quickly
• Good knowledge of automobiles
• Effective analytical and communication skills
• Good reading, computer, and mathematics skills
• Ability to learn new technology and repair and service procedures and specifications
• Should be able to operate electronic diagnostic equipment
• High School Diploma or GED
• Technical degree preferred
• ASE certifications required
• Minimum of 4 year experience
• Ability to lift 50 pounds
• Ability to work on your feet for extended periods of time
• Ability to work in a fast-paced environment
• Basic Computer Skills
• Positive, friendly attitude

Requirements for either a Service Advisor or a Sales Associate (the same, because a service advisor is a salesperson):

• High school diploma or equivalent
• Proven ability to provide an exceptional customer experience
• Ability to set and achieve targeted goals
• Prior sales experience preferred but not required
• Demonstrated communication, consultative, interpersonal and organizational skills
• The willingness to follow up with customers
• Experience and desire to work with technology
• Valid in-state driver’s license and an acceptable, safe driving record

 

[oliviaiiii]

Sounds a lot like the setup on the MTs.

@oliviaiiii … whether this was done month ago or just recently... the inspection recently done should have caught the missing drain plug IMO since a level check was on the checklist. Contact then, get the car towed there. They're going to have to make it right

Towed the car over to them yesterday. The service rep told me to leave the car there. Said will take a look at it and give me a call back today.

Didn’t call, called them, voice mail. Finally went through, said the car is fine nothing abnormal in the engine bay, fluids all good. I asked her how about the rev then, she said their top technician test drove the car yesterday and found nothing abnormal. The jerking is due to worn pads and rotors, “both front and rear”. And finally she asked if I want them pads and rotors all replaced today.

 

[charleswrivers]

Post was a little wonky but I think I got it.

What did they say about the fill plug that was off? So far as pads doing...

The car won’t rev pass 2500 rpm since the day I went to the dealership last week. Jerking forward and backward, the rev needle would drop straight to 750 rpm whenever it hit 1250 rmp then bounce back to 1000 rmp. No power. It took 1 minute to accelerate 10mph (I was counting ). Lots noise. I didn’t mention it here as I thought the timing must be an coincidence (it probably is).

...that's not a thing. Did you tell them about the missing plug? Was it part of the service sheet as your 'customer complaint' when you dropped it off? If the plug is reinstalled and they act like nothing is wrong, maybe those are a crooked bunch of people who are trying to cover up negligance on their part.
The...

oil gunk

...lost around the fill hole is indicative you lost something. Now normally you can run an engine and check transmission fluid in a conventional automatic transmission with is similar, though not identical to a CVT. It's the way you actually check proper level, as you won't get a proper reading with the vehicle off. At least that's how any I've messed with are. That doesn't mean you drive it around like that. I wouldn't doubt you could lose fluid over time as it gets slung around.

I hate to break it to you, but I think these guys might be trying to pull the wool over you and you may have a fight on your hands.

 

[Gruber]

These folks say the CVT plug pops out all by itself because of pressure build up inside the transmission, maybe if the vent is clogged? Where is the vent in this CVT?
Weird, wild stuff. I did not know that.

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/321-transmission/372757-cvt-fill-plug.html

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/...vic/369591-rubber-cork-popped-under-hood.html

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/181-8th-9th-generation-civic/371712-2014-lx-cvt-question.html

 

[oliviaiiii]

i could see that happening,

if the vent is plugged, the fill cap would be the next weakest point,

makes me wonder why they didnt make that plug screw in, similar to your oil cap, instead of just pushing it in,

the CVT fill plug is basically the transmissions equivalent to your engines oil cap,

again, there wouldn't be any reason to remove it, unless your pouring fluid in there

No, y'all got me wrong.

I never said I am going to make the dealership (let’s call it K) the direct cause of my missing transmission plug. I don’t know how/when the plug went missing. You see I don’t know much about cars so I generally trust dealership, that’s why my car was serviced exclusively by dealerships in the first place. An independent mechanic/shop is more likely to screw a car illiterate person like me than any dealerships(apply to my situation ONLY).
However, I gathered all my documented service reports and looked over and over and then I realized K might be the culprit (not just conjecture or speculation). Still, I did not say so and won’t say so without consulting an attorney.

The plug needs to be removed in order to ADD, or CHECK transmission fluid level. My Manual reads “have the dealer check transmission fluid level”. It was not so easy to stash my arm in the gap to reach the plug given that I have skinny arms(wrist circumstances 5” upper arm circumstances 8.25”) and I can see why that would be a hassle for the rest(none dealers). Called K simply to ask when they performed “Transmission Fluid Check”, did they see any issues. Not for one second have I accused them for anything, as a matter of fact they were the ones tried hard to work their way around it. I don’t see there’s need to hide the fact that a customer came in the service bay with unplugged transmission. I was hoping K would be honest with me as I only need to find out if I’ve been driving a dry transmission before K serviced the car.

Once again, K confirmed the transmission looked good and fluid level too. So the plug was last seen/contact by K. Of course they could be lying about that they performed the fluid check at all, but it was checked on the paper (Honda’s mandatory multi points checklist), which would make K the tortfeasor under a negligence theory (all credit to @charleswrivers). The elements of negligence are that there is (I) a duty(they need to check my transmission fluid and ALL FLUIDS), (II) the duty was breached by the tortfeasor (Their mechanic), (III) the breach was both the proximate and actually cause(damage for sure, the matter of how sever ) (IV) of either your personal or property damages(Like I said car drove funny right out of K and symptoms got progressively worsen as I drive. I did approx 180 miles from Friday to Saturday, by Saturday night on the turnpike the car couldn’t accelerate pass 2500rpm, I could barely maintain 60mph in the right lane(let go of gas padal for a second I will lost all speed, it’s like the car was fighting me and it feels like it was braking itself) and it was scary it’s like everyone was trying to run me over)

Car is all stock(Only added clear bra and splash guards and lightbulbs), and has an clean engine bay( I clean it whenever I refill windshield wiper fluid) and great documented servicing history, all service/maintain was done by Honda dealerships and never missed or skipped any. I generally go to Honda Cars of Boston(Refer as B) for service or routine oil change, B charged $80+tax for full synthetic plus $40+tax for tire rotation. And I found online coupon from K for $59.99+tax oils change and free tire rotation plus Honda multi-points inspection(which is pretty standard at least in MA &NH), so I want to check the place out (my bad for being cheap). I gathered all documentation and recipes and looked over and over, I had dealership A change the transmission fluid 28000miles/10 month ago, after that I have 1 oil change done by dealer A and 2 by B (B are the type of dealership they would failed your inspection for reasons like lightbulbs aren't stock and they did so to me) No fluid missing or plug missing ever reported from both A and B. And I actually discovered that my brake fluid not filled dated a couple of oil change ago, so technically the car shouldn’t be drive funny right after service at K as the fluid level has been like that.

Sure it absolutely could be some kind of blockage then pressure build up finally popped the plug. Like I said I don’t know the cause. I too wanted to know and was hoping K could pull some data-log diagnoses from the the computer with scan tool. HOWEVER, on Tuesday I had the car towed to them, I tried to explain everything that happened to the service representative but it seemed like she was not interested, and an engine bay that has unplugged transmission with oil all over “looked okay” to their top mechanic, and she tried to got rid of me in within 4 mins literally without asking for any details, like what fluid was missing how far I drove in this condition and why would I assuming transmission fluid leaking stuff like that. On Thursday’s I went pick up my car, NO CHARGE($145 diagnosis fee), concluded transmission is OKAY. I promptly popped the hood and they put the plug back. Car drives poorly but drivable. They def fixed something even they think it looked “OKAY”

I truly appreciate all of you input and opinions you guys are awesome thank y’all for being here. special thanks to @charleswrivers for your wise discernment, I certainly draw a ton of positive lift from your input and you are the absolute best, I don’t take your help for granted. And My Apologies to OP that I siderailed your thread with endlessly boring talks.

Here is what’s happening:
I’m taking my car to another dealership for transmission diagnosis this coming week.

Car is still under warranty and I’ve called Honda customer service to confirm whether damages cause by dealer would be covered, worst case would be needing an attorney. The Honda customer service asked whether I want to file a complaint against K and have a case manager to look at it, I told him to wait till I get a diagnosis result.

 

[charleswrivers]

Here is what’s happening:
I’m taking my car to another dealership for transmission diagnosis this coming week.

Car is still under warranty and I’ve called Honda customer service to confirm whether damages cause by dealer would be covered, worst case would be needing an attorney. The Honda customer service asked whether I want to file a complaint against K and have a case manager to look at it, I told him to wait till I get a diagnosis result.

That's a tough spot to be in... and one that is going to take time and attention it sucks to expend. Best of luck to you. Your position is very logical and well thought out with data to back it up through the recent inspection performed.

As to the fill port vs the overflow port... I can't say as to which one is pulled as I don't have access to a factory service manual. Since the fill port lacks a dipstick, you figure you could pull the overflow port to ensure it isn't overfilled, but to ensure it isn't underfilled, the only way I can see to do that is to add fluid until you see fluid begin to issue from the overflow/level port (whatever it's called). You could stick a scribe or something in there and Soo if the level is right up to the port.

The inspection isn't limited to level, but also condition, based on Honda's website. To determine the condition of the fluid, if it's comparable to ATF, you'd have to get a sample of it. With ATF, I dab the dipstick on a white cloth and observe the color and give it a test with the ole sniffer. Burnt ATF has a noticably different smell than fresh stuff. The color of new vs old vs burnt ATF varies considerably. You can turn new ATF to burnt ATF on a vehicle towing for a time/distance well inside the realm of the MMs periodicity... or in the case of a heavily loaded down Odyssey which borrowed the Accords drivetrain and stuck it into a heavier package that allows for towing.

I also admit this is a guess. If I were going to inspect my own CVT fluid assuming I had a CVT, I'd probably stick a clean, long screwdriver in the fill port which looks kind of like a drain plug on a Jon boat and dab it on a cloth since there's no dipstick. I like having a Haynes/Chiltons/FSM and choose to follow a procedure vs not.. but if I were to wing it, that's what I'd do. That way I could also do it w/o pulling one of the plugs that, if it's like the MT, would also inevitably have a crush washer as well. Honda's gotten weird about the end user servicing their transmissions. The 4th gen Odyssey's went from having an obvious fill port/dipstick to a little black painted handled thing that's easy to miss unless you know what you're looking for. That and our manuals to essentially give no guidance on the CVTs (or MTs for that matter) other than what fluid and amount they take but to take it to a dealer if it needs anything. Earlier Civic manuals included directions on how to do your fluid... I think from gen 8 and earlier.

Regardless, IMO, it should have been cause. Fill plug off or not, the 'oil gunk' noted in the engine bay should have raised red flags... assuming it was preexisting. If not, then it's all new... and happened since the dealers inspection. A few years of flawless service... followed by an issue immediately after an inspection points to the inspection causing the issue, again, assuming there was no problem before. The Navy chief in me is telling me what I've seen time and time again. A machine runs flawlessly for a month. It is shut it down to service it. When it's time to start it back up, it fails to start. The cause, 99% of the time is from something that is touched by a person. My gut is that this problem was caused by something being touched.

I guess one test would be for someone to pull their fill plug and drive it around and see if CVT fluid gets sprayed into the engine bay... even if it's not much over a short period of time. I mean... I wouldn't do it... but if someone has ever had their fill port off and can say as to whether there was a mess/missing fluid... it'd be a data point.

Regardless... again... good luck @oliviaiiii. Sorry you have to deal with this PITA situation you're in.

 

[Gruber]

No, y'all got me wrong.

I never said I am going to make the dealership (let’s call it K) the direct cause of my missing transmission plug. I don’t know how/when the plug went missing. You see I don’t know much about cars so I generally trust dealership, that’s why my car was serviced exclusively by dealerships in the first place. An independent mechanic/shop is more likely to screw a car illiterate person like me than any dealerships(apply to my situation ONLY).
However, I gathered all my documented service reports and looked over and over and then I realized K might be the culprit (not just conjecture or speculation). Still, I did not say so and won’t say so without consulting an attorney.

The plug needs to be removed in order to ADD, or CHECK transmission fluid level. My Manual reads “have the dealer check transmission fluid level”. It was not so easy to stash my arm in the gap to reach the plug given that I have skinny arms(wrist circumstances 5” upper arm circumstances 8.25”) and I can see why that would be a hassle for the rest(none dealers). Called K simply to ask when they performed “Transmission Fluid Check”, did they see any issues. Not for one second have I accused them for anything, as a matter of fact they were the ones tried hard to work their way around it. I don’t see there’s need to hide the fact that a customer came in the service bay with unplugged transmission. I was hoping K would be honest with me as I only need to find out if I’ve been driving a dry transmission before K serviced the car.

Once again, K confirmed the transmission looked good and fluid level too. So the plug was last seen/contact by K. Of course they could be lying about that they performed the fluid check at all, but it was checked on the paper (Honda’s mandatory multi points checklist), which would make K the tortfeasor under a negligence theory (all credit to @charleswrivers). The elements of negligence are that there is (I) a duty(they need to check my transmission fluid and ALL FLUIDS), (II) the duty was breached by the tortfeasor (Their mechanic), (III) the breach was both the proximate and actually cause(damage for sure, the matter of how sever ) (IV) of either your personal or property damages(Like I said car drove funny right out of K and symptoms got progressively worsen as I drive. I did approx 180 miles from Friday to Saturday, by Saturday night on the turnpike the car couldn’t accelerate pass 2500rpm, I could barely maintain 60mph in the right lane(let go of gas padal for a second I will lost all speed, it’s like the car was fighting me and it feels like it was braking itself) and it was scary it’s like everyone was trying to run me over)

Car is all stock(Only added clear bra and splash guards and lightbulbs), and has an clean engine bay( I clean it whenever I refill windshield wiper fluid) and great documented servicing history, all service/maintain was done by Honda dealerships and never missed or skipped any. I generally go to Honda Cars of Boston(Refer as B) for service or routine oil change, B charged $80+tax for full synthetic plus $40+tax for tire rotation. And I found online coupon from K for $59.99+tax oils change and free tire rotation plus Honda multi-points inspection(which is pretty standard at least in MA &NH), so I want to check the place out (my bad for being cheap). I gathered all documentation and recipes and looked over and over, I had dealership A change the transmission fluid 28000miles/10 month ago, after that I have 1 oil change done by dealer A and 2 by B (B are the type of dealership they would failed your inspection for reasons like lightbulbs aren't stock and they did so to me) No fluid missing or plug missing ever reported from both A and B. And I actually discovered that my brake fluid not filled dated a couple of oil change ago, so technically the car shouldn’t be drive funny right after service at K as the fluid level has been like that.

Sure it absolutely could be some kind of blockage then pressure build up finally popped the plug. Like I said I don’t know the cause. I too wanted to know and was hoping K could pull some data-log diagnoses from the the computer with scan tool. HOWEVER, on Tuesday I had the car towed to them, I tried to explain everything that happened to the service representative but it seemed like she was not interested, and an engine bay that has unplugged transmission with oil all over “looked okay” to their top mechanic, and she tried to got rid of me in within 4 mins literally without asking for any details, like what fluid was missing how far I drove in this condition and why would I assuming transmission fluid leaking stuff like that. On Thursday’s I went pick up my car, NO CHARGE($145 diagnosis fee), concluded transmission is OKAY. I promptly popped the hood and they put the plug back. Car drives poorly but drivable. They def fixed something even they think it looked “OKAY”

I truly appreciate all of you input and opinions you guys are awesome thank y’all for being here. special thanks to @charleswrivers for your wise discernment, I certainly draw a ton of positive lift from your input and you are the absolute best, I don’t take your help for granted. And My Apologies to OP that I siderailed your thread with endlessly boring talks.

Here is what’s happening:
I’m taking my car to another dealership for transmission diagnosis this coming week.

Car is still under warranty and I’ve called Honda customer service to confirm whether damages cause by dealer would be covered, worst case would be needing an attorney. The Honda customer service asked whether I want to file a complaint against K and have a case manager to look at it, I told him to wait till I get a diagnosis result.

In any case, between Honda and Honda authorized service/dealers they are responsible for remediation of any damage that may have happened whether the plug popped out by itself or was not replaced after refill. Checking that plug must be part of the multipoint inspection even though it doesn't need to be removed to check the CVT fluid level. I can't imagine checking the level without at least looking at the plug. Just as a missing engine oil cap should be noticed during inspection, even though checking engine oil level on the dipstick doesn't require removing the oil fill cap.

Conversely, it is definitely not the responsibility of the owner to check the ATF plug, like checking the engine oil or tire pressure are.
If car manufacturers obnoxiously make the ATF harder to service by owner, and even remove references to it from the manual, they are fully responsible for checking it if the car is brought in for service.

Most likely, the plug popped out some time after the ATF change. If it has a tendency to pop out, and the filling tube is all covered with oil and not wiped off, it will pop out even easier.

The only problem is that it will be hard to make them just replace the transmission on warranty unless it is clearly broken. You need some obvious evidence it is not working as it should. If something happens before warranty expires, you have the documentation and there should be no problem with getting a new transmission. I would try to get them to make some explicit note on this. If it happens after the warranty, it might require some persuasion.

I have a similar situation with my CR-V, long after warranty, when the dealer service filled my cooling system with some brown stuff as a result of a kid/idiot doing the coolant change. I drove with this for many months. Then they flushed and refilled it with clean coolant (they screwed up even this, because they didn't refill enough and I had to add nontrivial amount of my own coolant). Now there is no sign of anything being wrong, but if something related fails, I expect them to fix it.

 

[charleswrivers]

I have a similar situation with my CR-V, long after warranty, when the dealer service filled my cooling system with some brown stuff as a result of a kid/idiot doing the coolant change

From my joy with earlier GMs... "Brown stuff" is coolant. Maybe he was on loan from the Chevy service department down the road and never got the memo. I have a hate-hate relationship with the stuff.

 

[9xArtanisx9]

same question here, I’m sitting at a dealership right now they told me rear brakes are below 20% and quote me $695.

Wow, $695? I'm better off just buying my own brakes and tools to diy it and still come way under... Tough decisions...

 

[Gruber]

From my joy with earlier GMs... "Brown stuff" is coolant. Maybe he was on loan from the Chevy service department down the road and never got the memo. I have a hate-hate relationship with the stuff.

Now this thread has brakes, CVT, and now coolant service.
This is another experience of maintenance done by dealer service.

No, this was not this kind of brown.... My radiator was always clean like a whistle. The stuff in my cooling system looked like clean transparent tea (or urine ). No solid dirt. I figured out what they probably did. They do a flush using a flush machine and they use a radiator flush kit containing two fluids: "Fast Flush" and "Treatment" for which they add $30 (costs less that $10). Only 8 fl oz each. The Fast Flush is supposed to be added to the system full of water and circulate for 10-15 minutes, then it is flushed and rinsed with water. Well, it was not flushed out and fully replaced by the coolant, but instead circulated in my CR-V for 9 months at unknown concentration. So my cooling system must be now super clean, including the water pump.

There was no hint of blue Honda coolant color, it was clear yellow-brown. Seems like there was more than 8 floz of something to make it look like this. I figured it was some mixture of water, radiator flush liquids, and coolant. There was definitely less coolant than 50%.

The Treatment (also 8 oz) is supposed to be added to the coolant and remain in the system.

Operating the flush machine requires some skill, training and focus to end up with full 50/50 Honda coolant undiluted with water or anything else (except that 8 oz "Treatment.) But above everything, any service requires checking the final result. But just after refilling the coolant reservoir may appear to be OK.

Btw. the MOC Fast Flush is not based on acid, but apparently on ammonium citrate which can dissolve scales. It is though a bit more acidic than the coolant.

https://mocproducts.com/category/innovative-products/1-performance/cooling-system/

 

[charleswrivers]

Now this thread has brakes, CVT, and now coolant service.

Yeah... I should probably quit. If I was an X-man, my mutant power would to take a thread and

I'm kind of lackadaisical with a mix of odd with coolant stuff. I assume if there's nothing hard in the water, no/minimal scale should be able to build up so I avoid tap water. I also have lived places with pretty poor water quality, so it sort of has driven me that direction over the years. I just buy jugs of DI water and drain until the reservoir is low, then simultaneously fill until the water coming out is clear... then keep draining and add full Antifreeze vice 50/50 then check with a hydrometer for the ratio. No hoses... flushes or tap water. I guess I sort of use the 'measure with a micrometer, mark with a grease pencil, cut with an axe" approach to it. I'd personally lowball it a little since I live in GA and the temperatures are rarely freezing. I haven't changed coolant in my own vehicles in awhile, but when I did the mother-in-laws and neighbors I was closer to 40% coolant which still covers down to under 0F. I figure having a but more heat transfer capability trumps being able to keep from freezing in temperatures far below they'd ever see and saves a couple bucks worth of coolant in the process... which I suppose is spent (wasted) on the DI.

I've never taken a car in for coolant to be done so I really don't know much about their machines. But... yeah... if that added that flushing stuff and you ran it through your cooling system, it bet it's pretty clean as well.

Since this Civic doesn't have a vented overflow like some of my earlier vehicles, I may have to rethink whether or not my old method is still applicable. I still have a bit of time left before it's due.

 

[David Harper]

whatever you do DON'T go to Midas, Merlin, or Meineke. They put cheap crappy aftermarket rotors and pads on your car. Then your rotors warp or the inferior pads glaze the rotor surface or some other thing happens. And they won't let you bring your own pads and rotors because they don't make as much profit and they know that you'll bring good ones and then they won't see you again.If they install the crappy ones they give you they know you'll be back. When my rotors warped I went back to them and the guy told me the rotors overheated and warped because I (his exact words) "stopped to fast". Their brakes are sh!t. Never go there. As far as the OP; you probably only need the fronts done not the rears. My solution to this is find a mechanic at a garage that you trust and bring in your own OE pads and rotors. Funny how the original equipment pads and rotors don't glaze, overheat, and warp even though I still stop just as fast. And consider this; Corvettes can go 160, so why don't their brakes overheat?

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