Full race efr turbo kit and rumored issues

Jpierro79

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So I’ve spent a lot of time doing research on efr turbo kit from full race cause I heard that there are issues.
One is throttle closure. Yes this is happening and can not be avoided on the low boost
The problem is the wastegate can only move 8mm or just over .3 inches. Efr turbo guide suggest no less than 10mm or .39 inches. You’ll see this is preload working range chart below
B7D11CC3-5A27-429D-8B87-33F2DC544108.png


Efr says that the wastegate reaches full open at 50 degrees. That requires according to efr .7 inches of stroke. More than double what the hondata actuator does.

A5345788-DAFB-4519-AE00-2BF166CF5DB1.png

If you have a stock fuel system you will get throttle closures in order to control boost low enough to not run out of fuel. Throttle closures are very noticeable as ive run into it for different reasons on stock turbo.
you can NOT adjust the stock actuator length. It’s not an option. Technically it could be done but hondata software does not allow it.
In order yo run the kit on you’ll have to get either more fuel with upgraded fuel system to run higher boost or get motec. This way you can control the distance the wastegate actuator opens. IYou can run vacuum actuaitor but this requires rigging up something to electronic actuator to fool it.
If you read the attached link to efr turbos it explains 50 percent of wastegate open is for control and the other 50 percent is relief. Remember it takes .7 inches for full 50 degrees and that means .35 inches to closed is control range. The 8mm the Honda wastegate actuator moves is .31 inches. Below the half point of.35 and 10mm minimum suggested is .39 inches.
here’s the link to borg Warner efr turbo technical guide.
http://www.turbos.borgwarner.com/files/pdf/efr_turbo_technical_brief.pdf

The actuator can move further than 8mm but requires the software to be changed. It can be done it’s not impossible but requires hondata to change it.
I’m NOT posting this to anger anyone or get back at anyone. I just feel as a consumer spending almost 5000 dollars to find this out after is unfair.
You can NOT run high enough boost stock fuel system to make it work. This is not defect in EFR turbo:”s.
I haven’t heard any issues with garret turbo kits. I do know of actual person running garret turbo stock fuel system.





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turbociv910

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The actuator can move further than 8mm but requires the software to be changed. It can be done it’s not impossible but requires hondata to change it.
How do we know it can move more than 8 mm?
 
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Jpierro79

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How do we know it can move more than 8 mm?
It’s already been done using motec software with stock actuator. Also when turn the key on the actuator does a sweep further than 8mm.
The actuator has a. voltage feedback that tells the ecu how far it’s open or closed. simply increasing the allowed voltage range increases movement.
With most actuators and sensors you have max and min parameters. It’s a matter of software not hardware.
this picture below explains that the ecu wants to see 1.26V to 1.46v in operating range. This is from full race actuator install guide. It uses a 5 volt system Like a MAF Sensor also uses. If one of those two values were at almost 5volts or almost 0 like .04 or 4.96 then the actuator would be at full range.
so on the motec they simply changed the acceptable values. Hondata can do this but it takes work to decode this. It’s not a matter of can’t do it. Technically all a motec is is another car ecu with all the parameters unlocked with faster processing and extra features. No computer is unhackable no computer can’t be reprogrammed. That actuator is also used o.n a few other turbos so the range has to be programmed for the other cars as well. It’s not exclusive to Bosch ecu. It’s a Mitsubishi actuator running on a Bosch ecu.

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turbociv910

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It’s already been done using motec software with stock actuator. Also when turn the key on the actuator does a sweep further than 8mm.
The actuator has a. voltage feedback that tells the ecu how far it’s open or closed. simply increasing the allowed voltage range increases movement.
With most actuators and sensors you have max and min parameters. It’s a matter of software not hardware.
this picture below explains that the ecu wants to see 1.26V to 1.46v in operating range. This is from full race actuator install guide. It uses a 5 volt system Like a MAF Sensor also uses. If one of those two values were at almost 5volts or almost 0 like .04 or 4.96 then the actuator would be at full range.
so on the motec they simply changed the acceptable values. Hondata can do this but it takes work to decode this. It’s not a matter of can’t do it. Technically all a motec is is another car ecu with all the parameters unlocked with faster processing and extra features. No computer is unhackable no computer can’t be reprogrammed. That actuator is also used o.n a few other turbos so the range has to be programmed for the other cars as well. It’s not exclusive to Bosch ecu. It’s a Mitsubishi actuator running on a Bosch ecu.
Thanks for the info. Give me something to read into. I am looking at this or their g25 kit. Ive already bought a type r motec package. Just waiting for it to get here from au.
 

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I'm happy with mine. Car rips!!!
 
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I'm happy with mine. Car rips!!!
I’ve got a message directly from hondata confirming that you have to run boost pressure higher than you have fuel from stock fuel system To make it work. The message said “you have to find fuel”!! I think that’s a poor response. In other words I was being told you have to upgrade your fuel system!! I stated stock fuel system won’t work without throttle closures!!
Yeah it will go until you feel a drop in power from throttle closures. You can not without water meth or some type of fuel system Upgrade run the efr kit on boost lower than 25psi. Throttle closures feel as noticeable as stock traction control kicking in. So either you have fuel system upgrade or you can’t tell. All the data is clearly outlined and directly from manufacturers. You can’t break the laws of physics.
higher boost doesn’t require the wastegate to open as much. That’s due to the back pressure forcing more air through he wastegate at higher boost levels.
The message said “wastegate flow is the issue..” of course it is cause as I stated it doesn’t open enough!!
the efr turbo is so much more effecient than stock that at 21 psi it maxes outthe stock fuel system. The stock turbo takes 25 psi. The amount of flow at 25 psi on efr turbo puts out way more than the stock fuel system can output. Before anyone continues to argue this point read the documentation. Attached to the first message. Its all clearly stated and scientifically right there. All facts have been validated and confirmed. Also the smaller efr turbo will do it worse than the larger one. I calculated wastegate duty cycle percentages using BorgWarner’s charts. There’s no way around it.
please also don’t say cam timing changes to slow down flow cause that bottle necks the engine creating excessive pressure and causes detonation due to change in airflow characteristics inside the cylinder with direct injection.
 

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I’ve got a message directly from hondata confirming that you have to run boost pressure higher than you have fuel from stock fuel system To make it work. The message said “you have to find fuel”!! I think that’s a poor response. In other words I was being told you have to upgrade your fuel system!! I stated stock fuel system won’t work without throttle closures!!
Yeah it will go until you feel a drop in power from throttle closures. You can not without water meth or some type of fuel system Upgrade run the efr kit on boost lower than 25psi. Throttle closures feel as noticeable as stock traction control kicking in. So either you have fuel system upgrade or you can’t tell. All the data is clearly outlined and directly from manufacturers. You can’t break the laws of physics.
higher boost doesn’t require the wastegate to open as much. That’s due to the back pressure forcing more air through he wastegate at higher boost levels.
The message said “wastegate flow is the issue..” of course it is cause as I stated it doesn’t open enough!!
the efr turbo is so much more effecient than stock that at 21 psi it maxes outthe stock fuel system. The stock turbo takes 25 psi. The amount of flow at 25 psi on efr turbo puts out way more than the stock fuel system can output. Before anyone continues to argue this point read the documentation. Attached to the first message. Its all clearly stated and scientifically right there. All facts have been validated and confirmed. Also the smaller efr turbo will do it worse than the larger one. I calculated wastegate duty cycle percentages using BorgWarner’s charts. There’s no way around it.
please also don’t say cam timing changes to slow down flow cause that bottle necks the engine creating excessive pressure and causes detonation due to change in airflow characteristics inside the cylinder with direct injection.
Bro I've done more hands on research than you could imagine. You're not telling me anything I don't already know...or personally dealt with. You are correct on most of the information you've provided. I'm not going to go into details about my build. I think you were asking a buddy of mine on Facebook for my datalogs. Let's just say I'm making 25psi and the car runs amazing. I've dealt with the headaches and when I drive the car now...it was all worth it.
 
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Jpierro79

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Bro I've done more hands on research than you could imagine. You're not telling me anything I don't already know...or personally dealt with. You are correct on most of the information you've provided. I'm not going to go into details about my build. I think you were asking a buddy of mine on Facebook for my datalogs. Let's just say I'm making 25psi and the car runs amazing. I've dealt with the headaches and when I drive the car now...it was all worth it.
For you that’s fine. You don’t think you should have known before you got it? That the only way it would work is with fuel upgrade? What about the other people who can’t buy it all at once? I felt bad for you. It drove me to do more research. Not everyone can shell out 7500-8000. I would think that you wouldn’t want anyone else to go through what you did.
I was told that there were no issues running stock fuel system. That’s simply not true.
 

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For you that’s fine. You don’t think you should have known before you got it? That the only way it would work is with fuel upgrade? What about the other people who can’t buy it all at once? I felt bad for you. It drove me to do more research. Not everyone can shell out 7500-8000. I would think that you wouldn’t want anyone else to go through what you did.
I was told that there were no issues running stock fuel system. That’s simply not true.
I get it...unfortunately modifying cars isn't cheap. You also have to understand that when you're adding more power to the car, fuel is a requirement. I went into this build with the understanding that fuel would be needed and wasn't readily available. The turbo kit does work on the stock fuel system, but taps it quite easily. I also knew this turbo would make more power at the same or lower boost levels. Again, what you've stated isn't wrong, but anyone who thought buying this, bolting it on and making 500hp without fuel is clueless.
 

turbociv910

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Again, what you've stated isn't wrong, but anyone who thought buying this, bolting it on and making 500hp without fuel is clueless.
Funny people build cars that they cant use.. ive got a radium port setup and a motec package as my first modifications.
 

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Funny people build cars that they cant use.. ive got a radium port setup and a motec package as my first modifications.
I'd love to use motec...but with having to pass yearly emissions...i didn't feel like going through the hassle of swapping back and forth.
 

turbociv910

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I'd love to use motec...but with having to pass yearly emissions...i didn't feel like going through the hassle of swapping back and forth.
Yeah. I'm exempt until 2023.
 

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