From 2004 TSX to 2017 Si

[dmitri]

Got to test-drive it finally. Wanted to make a quick review specific to differences between the Si and my (stock) 2004 TSX, in case someone else is interested/in a similar boat.

Here's a very brief "basic specs" comparison I put together earlier.

Disclaimer: I'm no expert by any stretch of imagination; just a regular guy with a desk job who likes to drive manuals. All my cars have been stock manual Hondas/Acuras - '02 RSX Type S, '97 Integra GS-R and '94 Civic Ex. Never drove a turbo before (not counting a couple short test-drives awhile ago). And never raced. Well... at least not on track...

Caveat: I drove the car exactly like I would if it were mine (during break-in period), so as a result I never went past about 4500 RPM. I'm sure one would feel even more positive difference once they got closer to the 5700 peak.

99% of the drive was in 'SPORT mode' -- the only differences I noticed were in the amount of body roll and throttle response. (As I and some others mentioned earlier, Honda should've just dropped the "two-mode" thing altogether and went with the 'sport' setup by default. It's supposed to be 'Sport-Injected', after all... Oh well. Pressing that button will just have to become an integral part of my car-starting procedure.)

Acceleration
When taking off fast from standing the TSX seems as fast or possibly a bit faster than the Si -- while in first gear, i.e. before the turbo kicks in. (Also remember, I didn't really push the Si, so who knows how full-throttle would feel in 1st.) And, even if not actually faster, the TSX did seem to feel more "responsive" and eager to go from the very start.

However, once the turbo spools up, that's where the Si wins. The turbo feels very much like when VTEC kicks in, except IMO it's actually more fun than VTEC (yes I just said it! ), at least in some way, because a) you don't have to wait till 6000 (or whatever) RPM, and b) the exhilaration from that kick feels sharper exactly because you were just "crawling" in lower RPM a second ago, and now you're suddenly... going!

Clutch
Much lighter than in the TSX, and longer travel before engagement point. The engagement itself felt "longer" as well, but that was probably because of unfamiliarity and the feel being so different from mine, -- I was probably just riding it much more than one ever should. Obviously will take time to adjust, but even by the end of the test drive it started to feel OK already. And funny thing, when I got back into my car, my clutch (which of course usually feels "normal") suddenly felt extremely tight/hard to move, despite it feeling "normal" for the past 13.5 years.

Steering/Handling
The differences were hard to judge after a short drive, but I think the road feel is slightly less visceral in the Si compared to the TSX's double-wishbone setup. But I really liked it regardless -- it's not worse; it's different. I didn't feel the need to make the ride harsher in order to "feel the road" better -- the feedback seemed nice/direct enough.

During sharp cornering the Si was completely flat. I was very impressed with how well it stuck to the road; definitely better than the TSX -- and that's really saying something, because the only other car that was as good or better than my TSX at handling was the 2015 (or 2014?) WRX STI. The Si basically has zero body-roll. Have not tested it taking turns at higher speeds (60-70 mph), but I'm sure the LSD will keep it awesome there as well.

Shifter
It's positioned higher in the Si than in the TSX, and I think a little closer to the driver. The shifts felt even shorter than the TSX's already-short ones. Also required more effort/more distinct "click" going into a gear, but I'm sure that's simply because it's brand new. Don't think there'll be any problems getting used to it. The quality of shifts is near-impeccable, and (again) that's really saying something, coming from TSX/RSX Type S which had easily the best shifters in their class.

Comfort/Interior
The Si has way more various tech than my car, so there's really no fair comparison to be made. The audio system sounded fine, at least for the few seconds I had it on. The cloth does feel cheap and rough after 13 years of driving with leather interior. I think it actually feels worse than the seats in my wife's '99 CR-V. But personally I don't really care about that sort of thing and I'm sure I'll stop noticing it soon enough once I own the car.
There's less hip room in the Si/the driver seems a bit more "crowded" by the shifter and dash, but it didn't feel uncomfortably tight.

Seats
They have been praised enough already, and that's well-deserved. Much more bolstered than the TSX's, they hug without squeezing/being too restrictive. They also might have enough out-of-the-box back support to not require getting an extra "pillow" for better spinal alignment like I had to get for my car, although I'd need longer drive times to tell that for sure.


I guess that's all I can think of right now. I'm sure I forgot something -- will update this thread later; particularly when I actually own this car (which I'm definitely buying within the next 2 months -- will wait for the prices to start to settle and in the meantime will be slowly negotiating/looking for a good-enough deal.)




P.S. This forum has been an awesome place to learn (and pastime) -- thanks to all who have been sharing their experiences and expertise!

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[BirchyBoy]

I had an '04 TSX 6 speed. Awesome car; miss it. I may have to drive an Si.

 

[dmitri]

I had an '04 TSX 6 speed. Awesome car; miss it. I may have to drive an Si.

Yeah it is indeed awesome. I wouldn't be looking for anything new, but I have to, as my daughter will need a car in August. So she'll get the CR-V, my wife will be driving the TSX, so it'll stick around with us for a while, most likely will be my son's first car - in about 4 years. Long live MT!!

P. S. updated the review - added a few little things I forgot to mention yesterday about the clutch, shifter and the seats.

 

[Acura_CSX_4eva]

Interesting review. I too have driven nothing but manuals. However my very first car was a 99 automatic Civic EX. After that it was,
2001 Integra Type R
2000 Civic Si
2009 370z
2007 Scion Tc
2010 Acura CSX.

The last 3 vehicles were all leather as well and I'm trying to find a way to pull the trigger on the SI sedan or even the new hatchback Type-R. But there's always 1 little thing that would discourage me whether it's no LED headlights except for Canada's trim modesl, or no sunroof, or no Navi, or the scratchy cloth interior like you mentioned. Maybe I need to wait for the upcoming 2018 ILX or Accord. Hopefully by that time the SI and Type-R will add even more incoming features. In the meantime, I will continue to read reviews and do more research.

 

[phen8tk]

I know this thread is over a year old, but for those of you who transitioned over to the Civic Si from the 1st gen TSX, can you give me your longterm impressions of the Si? Curious to see what are some of the things you enjoy better in the newer Civic vs. what are some of the things that you missed from the TSX.

Currently own an '07 TSX with 6 speed manual and I'm in a market for my next daily. So far, I've test driven about a dozen cars and right now, the Civic Si is at the top of my list. Really love how light and nimble the Civic feels and handling characteristics are fantastic despite the electric steering column.

Many of the my own Pro's and Con's are echoed in the OP's first post from the initial test drive, but it would be great to see what you long term Si owners have to say after living with it for a while when compared to the TSX.

Frankly, I am a bit hesitant to pull the trigger given that the TSX 6 speeds are a rare breed and mine's really clean and well maintained to boot. It's not likely that I would be able to repurchase a similar clean TSX if I regret getting the Si.

I apologize if this has already been discussed. Definitely tried searching quite a bit and the best thread I found about the topic was this one.

 

[dmitri]

It's always gonna be different for different people... but what I found interesting was that many of the points I thought were important, and were a significant factor in my decision-making process when buying this car, ended up being much less so, -- and conversely, some other things I haven't even thought about when buying it turned out to be notable annoyances. (Still, none are anywhere near the level where I would even begin to regret buying the Si. I bought it 11 days after the OP review, and am still enjoying it every single day; it is truly an awesome car! Would buy it again, no question about it.)

Anyway...
Some of the features/problems that might be worth mentioning, compared to the TSX:

• Android Auto: really thought it was a must-have feature, but ended up "just OK". I was so looking forward to having that...! Don't get me wrong, it's still quite useful and very cool technology, but I'm using it a lot less than I thought I would, and often have to disconnect and use the phone directly because of all the restrictions. (Plus it's really slow to start -- but that's probably the head unit's weak CPU...)
• Cloth seats: almost all my previous cars had leather seats so I thought lack of leather would bother me -- but actually they almost don't, other than being black which makes every little dog hair that sticks to them really stand out.
• Console and armrest fabric: unacceptably bad; had to be wrapped with custom leather.
• Lack of manual/mechanical e-brake: that does bother me still, but less than at the beginning (humans tend to adapt to things...) Still think it was a terrible call on Honda's part, although I think I understand why they made it (but still really wish they didn't!)
• Push Start button: Really cool not to have (to use) a key, but they really should have made it a turn switch, or just let the HU stay on after the ignition is turned off, at least until the door is opened. It is impossible to shut off the engine and continue to listen to the radio or maintain phone conversation uninterrupted. This is probably the most annoying problem I have with this car.
• Paint: The TSX's paint quality/thickness is much better than the Civic's; it's been chipping away like crazy... I probably should have spent some money on protective layer like many suggested (and did), but... oh well. Doesn't bother me that much; there's almost never any snow here in GA, so...
• Lack of spare tire: Still pissed off about it, and scared that it'll pop during a long trip somewhere and I'll have to use that inflation crap (and have to replace it instead of repairing), but what can ya do... I placed an order for the spare tire kit from Honda back in February -- still waiting...
• Flimsy/very thin body: not really that big of a deal, but just FYI. Careful not to lean on it or something might bend.
• I think that's all the "negatives"...?

That said... Everything else is really freakin' awesome though. As I said, it is a great car and I would buy it again without hesitation, even given all the points above. No car is perfect...

By far the best thing (unexpectedly), aside from suspension, was the LSD -- I'm not sure I'll ever buy a car without it anymore. It makes it eat up corners like there's no tomorrow (even on stock rubber).

Anyway, HTH.

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