For those who modded their Type R...

JW0914

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I do everything I want up until the ECU. I tend not to touch that cause I definitely know that could fuck with your warranty. Other than that, have a ball. Don’t take mess with the CAT!
When it comes to the ECU and PCM, simply flashing it shouldn't void the warranty, however, if any changed parameters led to the failure of a part or system, there's a decent chance Honda would contest a warranty repair.
  • Honda engineers. which dealerships can contact, do have the ability to run a PCM virtually to determine if changed parameters led to failure.
  • Some research would have to be performed to determine how software modifications that control physical systems affect warranty coverage to determine if those modifications are protected by the MMWA.

    • For example, rooting an Android phone does not void its warranty, as system level access to the OS doesn't damage the software or hardware, however, if root access is used to change core speeds which fry the CPU or GPU, that would not be protected by the MMWA and would void the hardware warranty.
      • Unfortunately, many have parroted the myth that rooting voids the device's warranty, however, if any had taken the time to actually read their device's warranty, they would find the warranty does not state anywhere that rooting the device [obtaining system level privlleges] voids the warranty, as this would be a violation of the MMWA. All device warranties do state that changes to the software that damage the device's hardware does void the warranty.

    • A similar example would be rooting the Type R's tablet (headunit is a three-part system: the tablet the user interacts with, the nav brain behind it which the tablet plugs into, and the tuner & amplifier behind the passenger's kick panel) to install applications not offered on the tablet, which does not void any warranties, however should a user modify system files or values that damage the headunit or any vehicle system it ties into over CANBUS, that would not be covered under the MMWA and would void the hardware warranty
My best advice for ECU/PCM modifications for Hondata would be using Hondata's remote cloning service to clone the ECU, allowing the user to retain their factory ECU which can be swapped back into the vehicle when it needs to be serviced.
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Harlaquin

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So as of late I’ve had an itch to throw an aftermarket exhaust onto my car. I really like the sound the HKS Legamax produces and I was considering doing it to my car. However, I’m kind of at an impasse with actually going through with it.

My main concern is that I do it and something goes wrong down the road and the dealer sees the modified exhaust and denies any warranty coverage. I get they have to prove the modified part caused the damage but they have a leg up since fighting them would require much more time and effort from myself. And let’s say something major went that would cost thousands to replace, well then I could potentially be on the hook for that. Plus, this is my only car, and if something did go wrong I would be SOL.

So for those reasons, I’m really on the fence. Part of me wants to do it, the other part is thinking about the what if’s afterwards. There’s a highly rated garage close to my house that would easily be able to do it which is how I got here in the first place.

For those who have modded their car... did you have the same concerns as I do or did you just say “screw it” and go ahead anyways?
Ok so true story, I know a person who removed thier resonator and then later on blew thier engine. Honda, not the dealer, but honda denied the warrenty because of the resonator. These are facts this is true. Another true story, I myself had an issue where my Si was shutting off and on and sometimes would go blank on all screens and you couldn't turn it off. Honda denied warrenty work because I had modified the car by adding a sub woofer. It was a all in one sub, only 2 wires , one to battery one to rear speaker. There was zero way it was causing it.

Bottom line, all these people say well sue or the law or blah blah. Like the OP said who's got time for all that? Plus it just cost you even more money for lawyers.

My 2005 civic se was burning through tires left and right. Honda denied there was anything wrong. We fought with them for years. And 12 sets of tires later they finally admitted , because 1000s complained, it was an issue and released a technical bulletin and replaced rear suspension parts. We asked about being compensated for all the tires and were basically told to fucking bad. There was a class action suit for tire reembersment... but honda made it so difficult and time consuming almost none got compensated. Even though we had receipts and sent proof it was still almost a year later they rejected our claim said we had no proof...what... we tried to call someone to say yes we did we sent it in. The answer...the window to submit proof is now closed you missed out. Again what...we did what we were suppos too legally and got nothing.

Bottom line man just dont mod your car if you give two shits about your warrenty. Because they will find any reason to decline it law or not. Even legally, if your right, they will make it sure a headache its not worth it. Like my friend with blow engine. It might be a warrenty item and yes hes right but. What dies he do. Let the car sit there for months or years while he fights them? Or hes gotta pay, which he did, up front and then spend years trying to get his money back. For me not worth it for an exaust.
 

SpinRush

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When it comes to the ECU and PCM, simply flashing it shouldn't void the warranty, however, if any changed parameters led to the failure of a part or system, there's a decent chance Honda would contest a warranty repair.
  • Honda engineers. which dealerships can contact, do have the ability to run a PCM virtually to determine if changed parameters led to failure.
  • Some research would have to be performed to determine how software modifications that control physical systems affect warranty coverage to determine if those modifications are protected by the MMWA.
    • For example, rooting an Android phone does not void its warranty, as system level access to the OS doesn't damage the software or hardware, however, if root access is used to change core speeds which fry the CPU or GPU, that would not be protected by the MMWA and would void the hardware warranty.
      • Unfortunately, many have parroted the myth that rooting voids the device's warranty, however, if any had taken the time to actually read their device's warranty, they would find the warranty does not state anywhere that rooting the device [obtaining system level privlleges] voids the warranty, as this would be a violation of the MMWA. All device warranties do state that changes to the software that damage the device's hardware does void the warranty.

    • A similar example would be rooting the Type R's tablet (headunit is a three-part system: the tablet the user interacts with, the nav brain behind it which the tablet plugs into, and the tuner & amplifier behind the passenger's kick panel) to install applications not offered on the tablet, which does not void any warranties, however should a user modify system files or values that damage the headunit or any vehicle system it ties into over CANBUS, that would not be covered under the MMWA and would void the hardware warranty
My best advice for ECU/PCM modifications for Hondata would be using Hondata's remote cloning service to clone the ECU, allowing the user to retain their factory ECU which can be swapped back into the vehicle when it needs to be serviced.
You are probably right. Seems like you've done your research, plus you are prepared to rebuttal any fuckery that dealers throw at you.

Ideally, what most of us would want ( myself mostly ) is if we could have the Hondata and / or KTuner kit ourselves. Here's what I would love to do.

1) Save the OEM original savings to a backup file.
2) Flash the ECU with the new tuning settings ( remap ) then save that...backup file.
3) Before going in for those service checks flash it back to OEM settings
4) Leave the dealership and Flash it again to our preferred settings.

If there's no problem with the car then there really won't be much to talk about anyway. However, I don't like bureaucrats in the least. We have a lot of bureaucrats in Japan.

OKAY....here's an interesting read. This quick story will give you some insight.

I had a Swift Sport 32S a while back. AWESOME Fun car! It was definitely worth doing a build so I went ahead and started a cosmetic build. Greddy Front Lip, Greddy Exhaust, Sunline Racing GT Wing on the back with a custom mount and a set Enkei PF01s 18s with nice meaty Yokohama Fleva S-Drive tire. Under the hood, I added some intake stuff and carbon goodies. It was not outrageous at all. It was more of a short circuit and touge build.
Anyway, I move to another city and go to check in with my local Suzuki dealer. Pure a-hole bureaucrat takes one look at my car and says we aren't going to touch it In Japan, we have this Shaken system ( Car Inspection ). It's not a bad thing, IMO. We take care of cars in Japan. If your wheels are outside the fender or your wing extends beyond the body they will sweat you. I had passed this inspection before so I knew all the parts on my car were okay. Most aftermarkets parts from Japan come with a certified seal and code proving that they are clear by Japanese road laws.

However, the dealers here can inspect your car and if they feel it's in the gray zone ( even by a millimeter ) they can deny service. Some Japanese automakers do this or have bureaucrats like this. It's a slap in the face because it's people like us who modify or make their sports cars even more desirable that people go out and buy them. We are helping them.

So with that said, flashing an ECU outside Japan might not be that risky but here in Japan if we take this route and can't cover our tracks we could lose the warranty and service. There isn't even a book that you can buy to verify and check the rules. Here in Japan, if you are unlucky you'll get a bureaucrat. It doesn't mean your car is unsafe, it just means he has a little power in his position and can make a claim against you even if it's a millimeter outside some undefined limit. If you are lucky, you'll get some guy who got laid that morning before work, loves cars and has no time for petty bullshit.
 

JW0914

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Ok so true story, I know a person who removed thier resonator and then later on blew thier engine. Honda, not the dealer, but honda denied the warrenty because of the resonator. These are facts this is true. Another true story, I myself had an issue where my Si was shutting off and on and sometimes would go blank on all screens and you couldn't turn it off. Honda denied warrenty work because I had modified the car by adding a sub woofer. It was a all in one sub, only 2 wires , one to battery one to rear speaker. There was zero way it was causing it.
Unlikely and no way for anyone to verify.
  • Occam's Razor: All manufacturers are well aware of the MMWA, just as they're well aware violating it will cost them more financially than simply honoring a warranty.

  • Additionally, all manufacturers are well aware their license to do business in a state will be affected should they violate the MMWA, as a state's D.o.I can revoke their licenses to do business and sell warranties in their state, costing the manufacturer $100M+.
    • Furthermore, if they're a publicly held company, as Honda is, yanking of a license by the D.o.I has further reaching consequences due to a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders. Should they violate this fiduciary responsibility, the SEC will step in, as they just did with Tesla due to Musk's public statements on Twitter.
Bottom line, unless someone has verifiable proof that can be fact-checked, their anecdotal statements regarding a manufacturer violating the MMWA should be taken with a grain of salt. Facts will always matter more than an opinion.

Furthermore, anyone can call HondaCare's customer service and ask them if modifying the exhaust or adding a subwoofer voids the warranty, and they will be told, as I have several times before, that no it does not, with the reason being doing so would violate the MMWA.
As I said, Occam's Razor


Specific to @Harlaquin:
If you truly believe the MMWA was violated, then do the following:

  • Compose a formal letter with dates, places, and an explanation of what happened (incl. all work orders/paperwork) then reach out to the following agencies:
    • State Dept. of Insurance
    • State Consumer Protection Agency
    • State Attorney General's Office
    • U.S. Attorney General's Office
    • Company's Legal Dept
    • COO and Board of Directors for the company

  • The formal letter should be sent by certified mail, with proof of delivery [signature required for delivery] to all agencies, even if the complaint is able to be taken over the phone or the letter emailed.
    • Provided the above is done, especially 1st, 3rd, 5th & 6th, you will get a response back from the company, and likely a favorable one.
    • Certified letters should be mailed out to all on the same day, as this ensures all (esp. 1, 3, 5, & 6) are received by the time the company is contacted by State agencies.

  • If you'd like some help doing this, please PM me.
 
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JW0914

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Ideally, what most of us would want ( myself mostly ) is if we could have the Hondata and / or KTuner kit ourselves. Here's what I would love to do.
  1. Save the OEM original savings to a backup file.
  2. Flash the ECU with the new tuning settings ( remap ) then save that...backup file.
  3. Before going in for those service checks flash it back to OEM settings
  4. Leave the dealership and Flash it again to our preferred settings.
This is quite risky, as the DST-i (interface Honda uses for ODBII communication) and HDS software can see if the ECU has been flashed, since they're able to see if it's been jailbroken.
  • Even if going in for normal service, if the dealership has to hook up to the OBDII for any reason, it's likely they're going to notate in the Service History if the ECU is jailbroken.

    • If this is indeed notated in the Service History, should the vehicle need warranty service on an engine part or sensor in the future and Honda correlates the damage due to custom firmware values on the ECU, it will likely be an uphill battle to get that specific issue warrantied .
      • CLARIFICATION EDIT: "Custom firmware"/"Custom firmware values" refers to modifications to the firmware which directly affect sensors, timing, performance, etc; i.e. any modification that affects a physical system or component.

    • To me, it's worth the $1100 to avoid this potential headache all-together, however there's no right or wrong answer here... it simply depends on personal preference and the risk assessment of pros and cons by the arbitrary owner.
 
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MoTeC R

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Ok so the real question. If you mod your car now or at 36,000 miles can you afford to pay for repairs to the car? They are yours after the warranty is gone. I haven’t seen any threads that said my stock engine blew up at 35999 miles yet. So what does the warranty really mean? Go to a dealer that supports modifications they are out there and they will even modify your car and stand behind your “factory warranty”. I am in the 500HP range with 3.000 miles on the car. You have to pay to play. If you can’t afford to play stay stock forever. Not being sarcastic but for those thinking a cold air intake or an exhaust are going to void a warranty or have fear their engine is going to explode as soon as they modify it it’s really silly. Go to a professional shop and get professional dyno tuning, have parts professionally installed and professionally tuned. Stop slapping parts on with canned tunes and without supporting mods and you will be fine. I have 2 other heavily modded Nissans a 2009 and a 2013. None of them have had issues as the work done to them was done right by professionals who stand behind their work as well. If you want to modify your car do it in the right manner and tell them to tune you according to your vehicle. Don’t buy a lower trim car and turn it into a Type-R buy a type R and start from there. Otherwise your are just pouring even more money into a car that will ultimately cost you just as much money to be slower than a Type-R that upgraded in the same fashion. Start with the best platform in the line then mod. Otherwise your working against your own objectives performance wise.

edi: I would like to upgrade the subwoofer and hide away the amp as I have seen I don’t listen to a ton of music but I may do it more often if the stereo had a bit more low end. It doesn’t sound terrible but nowhere near as good as the sound of the car so most times I ride with no radio or very low as I’d rather listen to the car. I would like a better sub though. The factory location and a replacement sub amp tucked away isn’t like throwing a huge box in the hatch.
 
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JW0914

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Ok so the real question. If you mod your car now or at 36,000 miles can you afford to pay for repairs to the car?
Why would repairs need to be performed if something is installed correctly and used within it's means if it's a performance mod?​
I haven’t seen any threads that said my stock engine blew up at 35999 miles yet. So what does the warranty really mean? Go to a dealer that supports modifications, they are out there and they will even modify your car and stand behind your “factory warranty”
Any dealer who installs an aftermarket mod and wishes to warranty the work can, but that will never be covered by the factory warranty.

As for modification, all dealers support modifications if in the US, as the owner is protected by the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act... it's not a dealer who signs off on warranty work, it's Honda, as they're who the warranty is through and it's their final call. Call HondaCare customer service and they will tell you the exact same thing: modding does not void the warranty, and any who say it does clearly has never bothered to actually read their warranty and is why I added it to my FK8 CTR section on GitHub.​

I would like to upgrade the subwoofer and hide away the amp as I have seen I don’t listen to a ton of music but I may do it more often if the stereo had a bit more low end. It doesn’t sound terrible but nowhere near as good as the sound of the car so most times I ride with no radio or very low as I’d rather listen to the car. I would like a better sub though. The factory location and a replacement sub amp tucked away isn’t like throwing a huge box in the hatch.
This has been covered quite a few times in the Type R Product Reviews and​
Civic FK8 Type R Owners Facebook groups, and if re-using the factory enclosure need a sub that supports a 0.33cu.ft. air space (the cubic footage of the stock box). The amp and LOC [Line Output Concerter] can be housed in the foam sitting above the spare tire well.​
 

MoTeC R

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Why would repairs need to be performed if something is installed correctly and used within it's means if it's a performance mod?​

Any dealer who installs an aftermarket mod and wishes to warranty the work can, but that will never be covered by the factory warranty.​
As for modification, all dealers support modifications if in the US, as the owner is protected by the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act... it's not a dealer who signs off on warranty work, it's Honda, as they're who the warranty is through and it's their final call. Call HondaCare customer service and they will tell you the exact same thing: modding does not void the warranty, and any who say it does clearly has never bothered to actually read their warranty and is why I added it to my FK8 CTR section on GitHub.​


This has been covered quite a few times in the Type R Product Reviews and​
Civic FK8 Type R Owners Facebook groups, and if re-using the factory enclosure need a sub that supports a 0.33cu.ft. air space (the cubic footage of the stock box). The amp and LOC [Line Output Concerter] can be housed in the foam sitting above the spare tire well.​
You’re basically proving the point I was trying to point out. People are afraid of modding their cars because of a 36,000 mile warranty. If I get a strange noise in the cabin or something unusual it will be handled under my manufactures warranty. My dealership is still happy to take care of anything during the duration of my factory warranty outside of abuse and people seem far to worried about maintaining a factory warranty they will likely never use instead of going ahead and making the modifications they want. There’s no reason if the mods are done correctly with then correct supporting mods your car won’t run efficiently. My car is 10x the car it was stock and wouldn’t look back and don’t regret modifications in the least. So have fun, it’s your car make it the way you want.

As far as the subwoofer this is something I will be doing it’s just been on the bottom of my priority list since music is most definitely secondary and not a primary mod to me as it’s typically only on when an passenger is riding along.
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