FlashPro - Artificial Knock Elimination

[D-RobIMW]

The blog in question may need to be updated, but don't think that it is not unbiased. For example it lists a feature for the FK8 (adding additional datalog channels) as a disadvantage.

The blog does need updating; it was written a few weeks prior to some of your recent updates, and it looks like you guys used it as a checklist, which is great for the consumer.

As far as bias goes, we are all humans. Even the best judge is not free from impartiality. I wrote the blog from the standpoint of someone who uses all of the platforms mentioned daily.

As far as the FK8 logging goes, the inability to log the factory vehicle is a bit of a disadvantage when it comes to diagnostic ability, wouldn't you agree? You offer a product that is touted as an advanced tuning and logging tool, yet you cannot gather data from the ECU before tuning?

I want my clients to have vehicles that perform the best they can, all the time; nothing else.

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[hobby-man]

I want my clients to have vehicles that perform the best they can, all the time; nothing else.

So once you go the custom tune route does it really matter which platform you're on? Is one inherently easier or more capable for you as a pro tuner?

 

[kytos]

So once you go the custom tune route does it really matter which platform you're on? Is one inherently easier or more capable for you as a pro tuner?

I don't know if this thread is the correct place to say this but it is or at least it has been obviously ktuner. It is cheaper, doesn't lock you to a certain model and historically has been the better for the 1.5, better for the customer. Both platforms are more mature now and are great, he tunes for whatever the customer ask.

 

[Hondata]

As far as the FK8 logging goes, the inability to log the factory vehicle is a bit of a disadvantage when it comes to diagnostic ability, wouldn't you agree? You offer a product that is touted as an advanced tuning and logging tool, yet you cannot gather data from the ECU before tuning?

Perhaps I am missing something here. We added important datalogging channels to the FK8 which the stock ECU does not support - fuel pump duty & knock retard - and somehow this is considered a disadvantage? So if we did not have it at all it would be better?

Even if that was the case, if you want to datalog these channels on the stock ECU then all you have to do is load a 'factory equivalent' calibration to find out.

I believe I am right to question your impartiality; after all, you post on social media showing yourself throwing our products in the trash.

 

[D-RobIMW]

Perhaps I am missing something here. We added important datalogging channels to the FK8 which the stock ECU does not support - fuel pump duty & knock retard - and somehow this is considered a disadvantage? So if we did not have it at all it would be better?

I never said the new channels were bad, did I? I merely mentioned that the inability to log the complete factory ECU is a disadvantage when it comes to diagnostic ability.

Specificity.

Even if that was the case, if you want to datalog these channels on the stock ECU then all you have to do is load a 'factory equivalent' calibration to find out.

Diagnosing a possible Hondata calibration-related problem would be impossible at that point, no?

It's safe to say the average enthusiast doesn't have multiple scan tools to view live data or perform functional tests. Something like a FlashPro or KTuner unit typically gives the average consumer a means of accessing information like error codes and live data to help solve a problem. A common diagnostic practice is to flash the vehicle to a complete original state to rule out the calibration as a factor.

I believe I am right to question your impartiality; after all, you post on social media showing yourself throwing our products in the trash.

I actually use them as a makeshift standing desk for my laptop on my workbench most of the time.

If you can't tell, I was giving Hondata a compliment in my last post, and praising it for the addition of important changes that were lacking for years. I'm not above recognizing progress.

 

[kytos]

I believe hondata is a very good product. I like the UI and responsiveness of it. I like that you are adding new features and improvements, thats good . I just wish they doesn't limit to an specifict model (per unit) to be almost perfect. But I also want to thank Drob because he has done a good job LATELY comparing products and giving his professional point of view, I think that's important because there are some influencers out there that don't base their recomendations on facts but rather on promotions or false statements (not specific to any brand). You know, good to know all opinions.

 

[leeti1284]

If I remember it right, the peak HP difference between Non-Si and Si is ~ 25HP stock or tuned.
By adding 18 peak HP to the Non-Si simply by removing this artificial knock control rise, there is really not much difference even though there is slightly hardware differences

 

[kytos]

If I remember it right, the peak HP difference between Non-Si and Si is ~ 25HP stock or tuned.
By adding 18 peak HP to the Non-Si simply by removing this artificial knock control rise, there is really not much difference even though there is slightly hardware differences

The difference in peak max power is not 18hp, more like 3 to 6hp. Artificial knock disable will help avoid power losses due to ignition retard and help to make some power after peak power (after the turbo is maxed out and timing gain more importance at high RPM). You wont gain 18hp peak just with this mod.

 

[leeti1284]

The difference in peak max power is not 18hp, more like 3 to 6hp. Artificial knock disable will help avoid power losses due to ignition retard and help to make some power after peak power (after the turbo is maxed out and timing gain more importance at high RPM). You wont gain 18hp peak just with this mod.

Sorry my bad. It should be power wont dip down as much after 5200rpm

 

[kytos]

Sorry my bad. It should be power wont dip down as much after 5200rpm

No problem, the explanation is very short and can lead to misinterpretation. Also the 18hp number could be best case. Anyway, i'm sure this mod will help a ton to make consistent power and better feel up top.

 

[xjoshuax89]

Also that hp gain probably only applies to much lower levels of power and on those on regular basemaps where the ignition retard isn't taken into consideration.

If you are near the top end, due to fuel system limits of the non si vs Si, you won't make the same power.

 

[kytos]

The most limiting factor vs the SI is the stock turbo being more efficient at high loads on the SI. stock vs stock Non-si will never make the same power at max capacity.

 

[varge]

Spot on Joshua!
I highly doubt that those that are custom (or even canned +) tuned are going to see any gains. The artificial retard has already been taken into account and advancing further may be risky.
Base /starter tunes on the other hand will surely benefit right out of the box with 1 click instant 5-10 top end whp (less on max whp, mybe 3-5 or so)

 

[kytos]

The artificial retard has already been taken into account and advancing further may be risky.

Kinda but it is impossible to avoid power losses without taking the risk to remove any ignition retard when the knock is real, there isn't any ignition advance as what the tune already has. There will be some gains and will make it easier to tune for power and avoid power losses, just won't be as wonderfull as "+18HP MO POWAH BABY!!!" on the TSP stage1 for example.

 

[arnoldo]

We cannot be sure until there is Flashpro owner custom tune his/her car & share the result here.

I would guess disable artificial knock feature could help maintain more consistent power across powerband. This may not resulting in significant power increase but could improve driving experience.

I personally think BBG is more important to have than disabling artificial knock feature, especially for those with FBO plus turbo upgrade.

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