FlashPro - Artificial Knock Elimination

[varge]

First off, this is a great feature and I'd definitely give it a try if it was available on ktuner.
BUT, you need to realize that the artificial rise only removes 1.5-2 ignition degrees past 5500rpm for kcontrol values up to 0.7x. Those that use canned tunes like TSP1 or Phearable or custom tune (self or not) already account for that pull back by adding a couple additional degrees to get their desired timing. Enabling the feature on such a tune may actually lead to severe pullback (or worse...) in response to higher probability of detonation due to additional ignition advance, so take proper care if that's the case.
You need to get to 0.8x territory before you start to lose more, and at that point chances are you really needed some pullback anyway.

Then, for those that use the starter maps, it will be an easy 1-click 5-8 whp gain which is also great ;-)

Just my 2 cents

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[arnoldo]

First off, this is a great feature and I'd definitely give it a try if it was available on ktuner.
BUT, you need to realize that the artificial rise only removes 1.5-2 ignition degrees past 5500rpm for kcontrol values up to 0.7x. Those that use canned tunes like TSP1 or Phearable or custom tune (self or not) already account for that pull back by adding a couple additional degrees to get their desired timing. Enabling the feature on such a tune may actually lead to severe pullback (or worse...) in response to higher probability of detonation due to additional ignition advance, so take proper care if that's the case.
You need to get to 0.8x territory before you start to lose more, and at that point chances are you really needed some pullback anyway.

Then, for those that use the starter maps, it will be an easy 1-click 5-8 whp gain which is also great ;-)

Just my 2 cents

Interesting...it could be ECU related because mine started pulling timing since 5200ish rpm pulling up to -4.5 depending on temperature. This is consistent both in KTuner datalog & Flashpro datalog. No changes in Ignition Base or KIL in Flashpro.

 

[varge]

Interesting...it could be ECU related because mine started pulling timing since 5200ish rpm pulling up to -4.5 depending on temperature. This is consistent both in KTuner datalog & Flashpro datalog. No changes in Ignition Base or KIL in Flashpro.

For manual transmission and KC 0.49 kretard will be 5 up to 5350rpm then rise to 6.5 at 5500rpm and possibly reach 7 by 6500rpm
If there was no artificial rise, it would presumably remain 5 till the rev limiter, hence the 1.5-2 degree value of artificial rise disable.

 

[arnoldo]

For manual transmission and KC 0.49 kretard will be 5 up to 5350rpm then rise to 6.5 at 5500rpm and possibly reach 7 by 6500rpm
If there was no artificial rise, it would presumably remain 5 till the rev limiter, hence the 1.5-2 degree value of artificial rise disable.

That means Honda did a great job in programming 10th gen Civic ECU. Mine is CVT and fuel quality in my country is inconsistent so Honda could be more conservative with ECU designated for my country.

I wouldn't drive daily with artificial knock disabled because of bigger turbo and the artificial knock is extra safety feature for me. For track days, I would temporary disable the artificial knock.

If I were still on stock turbo & stock internal, I would check if the stock internal is durable enough to handle the torque. and stock fuel system capable to deliver the required fuel.

If I owned SI, I would stick with Hondata and never switched to KTuner because there is no torque limiter that complicates tuning, and turbo lack in the manual transmission is not as bad as CVT.

 

[gtman]

First off, this is a great feature and I'd definitely give it a try if it was available on ktuner.
BUT, you need to realize that the artificial rise only removes 1.5-2 ignition degrees past 5500rpm for kcontrol values up to 0.7x. Those that use canned tunes like TSP1 or Phearable or custom tune (self or not) already account for that pull back by adding a couple additional degrees to get their desired timing. Enabling the feature on such a tune may actually lead to severe pullback (or worse...) in response to higher probability of detonation due to additional ignition advance, so take proper care if that's the case.
You need to get to 0.8x territory before you start to lose more, and at that point chances are you really needed some pullback anyway.

Then, for those that use the starter maps, it will be an easy 1-click 5-8 whp gain which is also great ;-)

Just my 2 cents

Great point. So essentially you're saying it's only best on a base tune.

 

[varge]

Great point. So essentially you're saying it's only best on a base tune.

There are those that are more expert than me, but to my understanding yes, it will be outright beneficial for starter tunes (which are also known to have more headroom, right?). Custom tunes will most probably have to be re-written to make use of a different KControl strategy.

 

[geeeek]

Ktuner who again ?? remember when everyone saying omg ktuner is best option, well stay in your one WOT pull Ktuner non si guy's.

I'll wait for ktuner to support this, apparently ktuner has more potential for 1.5T because of the way it handles fuel pressure or something like that.

 

[Hondata]

You might want to verify that. With the FlashPro you have completely control over the fuel pressure.

 

[geeeek]

You might want to verify that. With the FlashPro you have completely control over the fuel pressure.

Is that a recent change because it's mentioned in the imw blog posted earlier.

 

[gtman]

I just looked at the FlashPro changelog and it looks like they opened up the fuel pressure tables on the base 1.5T in January 2021.

I also notice Hondata allows users to adjust knock sensitivity apparently.

 

[xjoshuax89]

My biggest things.

If these are addressed I could potentially see a reason to perhaps flip to Hondata from Ktuner.

1). " Hondata retains the factory 18,000kpa fuel pressure targets on the L15 Civic models. "

Can anyone verify if this is no longer a thing? Changelog shows fuel pressure tables but that doesn't reveal if you can go above those limits or not.

2). Software doesn't allow the tuner to edit the main ignition table load index (aka the "Knock Ignition Limit" table).

3). Flashpro units being locked to specific vehicle types. Ktuner I can swap between my 2.0 NA civic and my 1.5T civic or if I get an accord or tlx, or rdx, etc....

4). Lack of the map fly switching.

5). Misfire monitoring

6).Lack of screen/monitoring of sensors without either laptop or another app.

 

[arnoldo]

My biggest things.

If these are addressed I could potentially see a reason to perhaps flip to Hondata from Ktuner.

1). " Hondata retains the factory 18,000kpa fuel pressure targets on the L15 Civic models. "

Can anyone verify if this is no longer a thing? Changelog shows fuel pressure tables but that doesn't reveal if you can go above those limits or not.

2). Software doesn't allow the tuner to edit the main ignition table load index (aka the "Knock Ignition Limit" table).

3). Flashpro units being locked to specific vehicle types. Ktuner I can swap between my 2.0 NA civic and my 1.5T civic or if I get an accord or tlx, or rdx, etc....

4). Lack of the map fly switching.

5). Misfire monitoring

6).Lack of screen/monitoring of sensors without either laptop or another app.

1. You can now make adjustments to fuel pressure as Hondata open the tables for consumers to change the fuel pressure. Hondata provides a new tech article in their website about this.

2. The difference between KIL & Ignition base is approach. Hondata ignition timing setup based on AIRC, & KTuner based on load. If you compare KIL & Igntion base, the value in Z axis is the same. I did see differences when I made changes to KIL so KIL does affect ignition in the load index but not as direct as KTuner's ignition table.

3. Flashpro unit is car specific. You cannot even switch between the one for 1.5T & the one for Type-R.

4. True.

5. Flashpro has only knock count.

6. True no screen & dependent with apps in phones or laptop but Hondata apps in Iphone is more accurate than TunerView.

I also want to add Hondata modifications of driver experience mods related to throttle respons & turbo response is only 1 level of choice.

Specifically for cvt with bigger turbo, torque limiter could add complexities in tuning as it will limit boost, ignition, & throttle opening.

 

[Hondata]

Is that a recent change because it's mentioned in the imw blog posted earlier.

The blog in question may need to be updated, but don't think that it is not unbiased. For example it lists a feature for the FK8 (adding additional datalog channels) as a disadvantage.

We retain the factory ignition timing control. This may be more difficult to work with at times but there is control over ignition timing and knock with less chance of problems.

 

[arnoldo]

The blog in question may need to be updated, but don't think that it is not unbiased. For example it lists a feature for the FK8 (adding additional datalog channels) as a disadvantage.

We retain the factory ignition timing control. This may be more difficult to work with at times but there is control over ignition timing and knock with less chance of problems.

As consumer, I would say the blog in question is bias.

For CVT users with upgraded turbo, torque limiter adds complexity in tuning & hitting boost target more than KIL.

That torque limiter is really hell of a body guard protecting CVT.

If you have solution for the torque limiter issue on CVT cars with upgraded turbo, please share with us.

Great work again @Hondata & @Spunkster !

 

[kytos]

As consumer, I would say the blog in question is bias.

I don't think it's bias but it needs to be updated as things have changed.

For example it lists a feature for the FK8 (adding additional datalog channels) as a disadvantage.

Can you explain this? I'm not sure it's the same thing mentioned.

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