FK8 radiator fan

jonnys_honda

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LMFAO. Okay bud.
Forget trying to explain to this guy. Dude doesn't realize that Dave and Baxi are personal friends. Baxi who commented, "waiting on a couple of people to test" was in reference to Will and myself.
Michael, my intentions are not to be negative. All of us track guys will question a "cure-all". That's great if it really does help, but please forgive me if a fellow Track goer asked for a little more data. I have no experience at thunder hill west so awesome if it cured the overheating. I even posted in the FB group to hear thoughts from experienced track heads.





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ApexEight

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I wonder how a CTR with just an EFR or Garrett G series kit at close to stock power levels would do on hot track days, fast driver, etc, but with otherwise stock hood, radiator, no oil cooler, maybe an upgraded grille/2020 grille. The G25 can be ran on the stock fuel system. I'm hoping that the PRL turbo can shed some light on this thought. All 3 will flow a lot more/have a lot less backpressure than the stock turbo which apparently generates a stupid amount of backpressure and heat according to USR's flow testing. Stock CTRs can cool down relatively quick, so I have some hope that maybe a stock cooling system could do ok and that it just needs a much more efficient turbo. I've thought of it all and this is my last idea lol.
 

jonnys_honda

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I wonder how a CTR with just an EFR or Garrett G series kit at close to stock power levels would do on hot track days, fast driver, etc, but with otherwise stock hood, radiator, no oil cooler, maybe an upgraded grille/2020 grille. The G25 can be ran on the stock fuel system. I'm hoping that the PRL turbo can shed some light on this thought. All 3 will flow a lot more/have a lot less backpressure than the stock turbo which apparently generates a stupid amount of backpressure and heat according to USR's flow testing. Stock CTRs can cool down relatively quick, so I have some hope that maybe a stock cooling system could do ok and that it just needs a much more efficient turbo. I've thought of it all and this is my last idea lol.
Jason at USR and Luke Wilson from 4Piston shared the same thoughts on the CTR Track FB group. Seems to be a great option.
 

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@Lust I was going to ask also what times you were running, and how hard were you pushing? 10/10ths?

Because you really need to be pushing hard, along with added power to get this car to overheat in the conditions we are talking about.

I ran Buttonwillow CW13 back in December with ambient temps around 70 (Unfortunately didn't datalog & didn't have my AIM SOLO yet), but in the first 9am session, I could only get 6 laps before a cool down. 2nd session got 8 laps before cool down, and i went into limp mode here. Lap time was a 2:05:191

Was pushing 9/10ths. Stock radiator, stock intercooler, high flow grill, Hondata OTS tune.
THill West is far from my "best" track. Given the conditions, the car was rung out hard. 10/10ths for sure. For reference Baxi ran a 1:27 with much more mods and stickier tires than I. I'll be upgrading to fresh A052 and going for a PB end of August. I don't have more track data other than pushing the car hard on 100F+ day with needing only one cool down lap. All of the data I share on my build thread. I'm hoping to reset my THill East and Laguna times this month as well.

2:05 isn't particularly fast either for BWCW13. I've said it numerous times, Hondata basemaps aren't great at all and generate a ton of heat. I had a stock CTR with 7 track day old PS4S tires and managed a 2:04 for my first time at Buttonwillow. These tires were absolutely DEAD. Ambient temps for BW that day was 85F. So how is it I ran a faster time, with shit tires, on a hotter day and didn't overheat but you did?

For the record, I never stated that the C&R track rad by itself will solve the cooling problem. If you check my build you see there are numerous small things that add up to a bigger cooling package. I told people that the bar and plate ICs sucked for track. People laughed. Now people are slowly realizing that bar and plate just blocks a ton of air to the radiator. Hence the reason why most NorCal track guys have transitioned from PRL ICs to HKS or C&R. Same thing here. People will be skeptics but will eventually realize I was right from the start.

Here's my solution to the cooling problem

1. PWR track rad. I'm running a very specific coolant mixture. .5gal Honda blue, rest is water and 1 bottle of water wetter
2. Varis hood
3. Free flowing grill
3. Stock IC or C&R IC. HKS might work but definitely a bit too thick.
4. Side mount oil cooler
5. Thermal shields. I have a PTP turbo blanket (mediocre), DP DEI wrapped, FP DEI wrapped, DEI tunnel shield beneath oil pan, reflective tape on intake, etc
6. If you decide to get a tune, it is very important to get a good one. KTuner has proven to run cooler for me when comparing OTS maps. I highly recommend getting a custom tune.

Hopefully I'm not missing anything.

For anecdotal evidence, I've been sharing temps on my daily commute with friends to see how much better cooling is compared to stock. After a 15-20 minute high way drive, ECT 2 temps are only 3-7F above ambient where my other friends are reporting temps in excess of 30-40F above ambient. There's no doubt in my mind that this radiator is hands down the best on the market.
 

Lust

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I wonder how a CTR with just an EFR or Garrett G series kit at close to stock power levels would do on hot track days, fast driver, etc, but with otherwise stock hood, radiator, no oil cooler, maybe an upgraded grille/2020 grille. The G25 can be ran on the stock fuel system. I'm hoping that the PRL turbo can shed some light on this thought. All 3 will flow a lot more/have a lot less backpressure than the stock turbo which apparently generates a stupid amount of backpressure and heat according to USR's flow testing. Stock CTRs can cool down relatively quick, so I have some hope that maybe a stock cooling system could do ok and that it just needs a much more efficient turbo. I've thought of it all and this is my last idea lol.
For other similar cars in the hot hatch segment, they have radiators that have double the capacity compared to ours. GTI, Golf R, Focus RS, etc. I doubt the PRL will be much better than stock since it's still using the stock hotside.
 

ApexEight

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Jason at USR and Luke Wilson from 4Piston shared the same thoughts on the CTR Track FB group. Seems to be a great option.
Yeah, I've talked with Jason and while they've had good results, the USR car has no AC condenser and already had a bunch of cooling mods before the EFR did the trick for them, but of course they're running a lot more power than stock, etc. Will be interesting to see if it's found to be an option moving forward, hoping the PRL turbo provides the same benefits in a simpler package and hopefully cheaper.
 

ApexEight

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For other similar cars in the hot hatch segment, they have radiators that have double the capacity compared to ours. GTI, Golf R, Focus RS, etc. I doubt the PRL will be much better than stock since it's still using the stock hotside.
Mm, good point on radiator size. And oh, I thought it was an entirely new turbo?
 

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Mm, good point on radiator size. And oh, I thought it was an entirely new turbo?
Not to my knowledge, I could definitely be wrong here. From the articles it seemed they're only revising the cold side.
 

Lust

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Michael, my intentions are not to be negative. All of us track guys will question a "cure-all". That's great if it really does help, but please forgive me if a fellow Track goer asked for a little more data. I have no experience at thunder hill west so awesome if it cured the overheating. I even posted in the FB group to hear thoughts from experienced track heads.
You didn't ask for data. You asked for my laptime and dismissed the solution by saying I'm too slow. I'm more than open to share any data that I have.

A much slower driver did a 1:33 that day. Guess what? He overheated in 3 laps and retired the car for the day.
 

jonnys_honda

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You didn't ask for data. You asked for my laptime and dismissed the solution by saying I'm too slow. I'm more than open to share any data that I have.

A much slower driver did a 1:33 that day. Guess what? He overheated in 3 laps and retired the car for the day.
Apologies Michael, like I've said on the CTR Track FB group, thanks for the clarity and hoping to see on-going positive track tests. I'll add that I would jump on replacing my current upgraded koyo radiator.
 

Lust

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Apologies Michael, like I've said on the CTR Track FB group, thanks for the clarity and hoping to see on-going positive track tests. I'll add that I would jump on replacing my current upgraded koyo radiator.
No problem I appreciate the humility. If you have time, glance over my build thread. I share a lot of the ideas and data there. If you have specific questions just shoot me a PM and I'll be glad to answer them.
 

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THill West is far from my "best" track. Given the conditions, the car was rung out hard. 10/10ths for sure. For reference Baxi ran a 1:27 with much more mods and stickier tires than I. I'll be upgrading to fresh A052 and going for a PB end of August. I don't have more track data other than pushing the car hard on 100F+ day with needing only one cool down lap. All of the data I share on my build thread. I'm hoping to reset my THill East and Laguna times this month as well.

2:05 isn't particularly fast either for BWCW13. I've said it numerous times, Hondata basemaps aren't great at all and generate a ton of heat. I had a stock CTR with 7 track day old PS4S tires and managed a 2:04 for my first time at Buttonwillow. These tires were absolutely DEAD. Ambient temps for BW that day was 85F. So how is it I ran a faster time, with shit tires, on a hotter day and didn't overheat but you did?

For the record, I never stated that the C&R track rad by itself will solve the cooling problem. If you check my build you see there are numerous small things that add up to a bigger cooling package. I told people that the bar and plate ICs sucked for track. People laughed. Now people are slowly realizing that bar and plate just blocks a ton of air to the radiator. Hence the reason why most NorCal track guys have transitioned from PRL ICs to HKS or C&R. Same thing here. People will be skeptics but will eventually realize I was right from the start.

Here's my solution to the cooling problem

1. PWR track rad. I'm running a very specific coolant mixture. .5gal Honda blue, rest is water and 1 bottle of water wetter
2. Varis hood
3. Free flowing grill
3. Stock IC or C&R IC. HKS might work but definitely a bit too thick.
4. Side mount oil cooler
5. Thermal shields. I have a PTP turbo blanket (mediocre), DP DEI wrapped, FP DEI wrapped, DEI tunnel shield beneath oil pan, reflective tape on intake, etc
6. If you decide to get a tune, it is very important to get a good one. KTuner has proven to run cooler for me when comparing OTS maps. I highly recommend getting a custom tune.

Hopefully I'm not missing anything.

For anecdotal evidence, I've been sharing temps on my daily commute with friends to see how much better cooling is compared to stock. After a 15-20 minute high way drive, ECT 2 temps are only 3-7F above ambient where my other friends are reporting temps in excess of 30-40F above ambient. There's no doubt in my mind that this radiator is hands down the best on the market.
Hi Michael,
Thanks for sharing your cooling mod list.
Besides changing radiator and or adding oil cooler, I was trying to confirm with honda if either the 2020 grill if not also bumper will fit my 18. What would you recommend?

I’m getting conflicting answers from others vs a Honda body shop service advisor saying neither gril nor bumper will fit but a tech rep thought either would or should.

I’m new to all this and have yet to track my plan was to attempt to get car ready for any cooling issues while I have the bumper off at least to start with say auto crossing.
Open to your advice
 

Lust

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Hi Michael,
Thanks for sharing your cooling mod list.
Besides changing radiator and or adding oil cooler, I was trying to confirm with honda if either the 2020 grill if not also bumper will fit my 18. What would you recommend?

I’m getting conflicting answers from others vs a Honda body shop service advisor saying neither gril nor bumper will fit but a tech rep thought either would or should.

I’m new to all this and have yet to track my plan was to attempt to get car ready for any cooling issues while I have the bumper off at least to start with say auto crossing.
Open to your advice
Ive seen others use the 2020 grill on previous model year cars so it’s definitely possible. I’d recommend just cutting out the grill on your car. See my build thread.
 

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Ive seen others use the 2020 grill on previous model year cars so it’s definitely possible. I’d recommend just cutting out the grill on your car. See my build thread.
thanks Michael,
Sorry but where did they get the 2020 grill From if not from Honda dealerships since it just came out?
Please confirm
thanks
 

Lust

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thanks Michael,
Sorry but where did they get the 2020 grill From if not from Honda dealerships since it just came out?
Please confirm
thanks
They all ordered from Honda directly
 

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