Failures from the tuning reliability thread

[Jaxson]

There is drivability mod available in KTuner as well. If your ECU status is full support, you can have 3 maps for you to switch on the fly.

I use my own 22 psi calibration when I join community run. I use 19 PSI custom calibration with drivability mod for daily commute. I may switch to stock boost map with drivability mod calibration for daily because the drivability mod suits my driving style.

Ok. I will look into it when I get it in my hands.

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[reesee175]

I just bought a ktuner v1.2 for my 2020 Si. So are the “safest” tunes the base maps that come with ktuner? I have no interest in getting tons of power. Just looking to liven up the current drive and get rid of rev hang.

Yes. I use the fsctory/ 19.5 psi tune with no early spool, throttle respone 1, and turbo respone 1. No early spool either. I do have bolt- ons, but no dp or flex fuel. A good intercooler, intake, and exhaust and you should be fine.

 

[gtman]

Added failure #13 (Virhan) to the first post.

 

[arnoldo]

Added failure #13 (Virhan) to the first post.

I saw the complete post in tuning survey. 1 thing I would like to highlight is the fuel used. Fuel used was 90 RON instead of US 90 Octane, approximately 86.5 Octane if we are using Ron+Mon/2 formula to convert RON to US Octane.

Minimum fuel recommendation mentioned in Indonesia version of manual is 92 RON (88.5 Octane).

I have mentioned this a few months back suggesting Virhan to change fuel to at least 92 RON and tune accordingly. Before the self tune, BOV, and self-tune error, the fuel used is already below Honda Indonesia minimum recommendation.

 

[gtman]

I saw the complete post in tuning survey. 1 thing I would like to highlight is the fuel used. Fuel used was 90 RON instead of US 90 Octane, approximately 86.5 Octane if we are using Ron+Mon/2 formula to convert RON to US Octane.

Minimum fuel recommendation mentioned in Indonesia version of manual is 92 RON (88.5 Octane).

I have mentioned this a few months back suggesting Virhan to change fuel to at least 92 RON and tune accordingly. Before the self tune, BOV, and self-tune error, the fuel used is already below Honda Indonesia minimum recommendation.

86.5 on a tuned car? Why would he have done that? Then the bolt ons without a proper pro tune. Plus some other errors. I hate to say it but he was setting himself up for issues.

 

[arnoldo]

86.5 on a tuned car? Why would he have done that? Then the bolt ons without a proper pro tune. Plus some other errors like adjusting timing (best left to the pros). I hate to say it but he was setting himself up for issues.

I explained that the fuel that he used has inconsistent property. He may be getting fuel quality equals to 88 US octane at one station but he would likely to get 86.5 US Octane fuel quality at the other gas station, instead of 88 US octane.

I shared my insight back in January 2020 when he noticed high knock control: Knocking

 

[NewCivicRs]

Oh my GOD, so many failed civics here, Si or non Si, but none of them were running at stock turbo/intercooler/intake/downpipe and conservative map - boost level (below 21 Psi) hmm ? why not use conservative basemap and stock turbo and 93 oct for the sake of engine/cvt life? Just a few more Hp and Torque but risking the car's life is not worth it, is it? ?

 

[kefi]

hmm ? why not use conservative basemap and stock turbo and 93 oct for the sake of engine/cvt life? Just a few more Hp and Torque but risking the car's life is not worth it, is it? ?

To some people it is. The “full send”. ?

 

[DmK]

Oh my GOD, so many failed civics here, Si or non Si, but none of them were running at stock turbo/intercooler/intake/downpipe and conservative map - boost level (below 21 Psi) hmm ? why not use conservative basemap and stock turbo and 93 oct for the sake of engine/cvt life? Just a few more Hp and Torque but risking the car's life is not worth it, is it? ?

Some people just enjoying the process.?

 

[NewCivicRs]

For the most part, the tuning reliability thread is showing that the vast majority of tuned 10th gens are running trouble free. Having said that though, here are the major failures that have been posted in that thread so far:


Coupe-R
Vehicle: 2018 Civic EX-T CVT coupe

Total tuned time: 16 months

Total tuned mileage: 16,000+miles at time of writing

Tuning device(s) used: started with Hondata CARB, quickly swithed to KTuner V2

Tunes used: Custom dyno tune, multi-map, main map is factory like tune, performance maps 22-23psi. Early spool used to be on, now early spool is off.

Fuel used: Shell 93 or Mobil 93

Additional engine mods: PRL catless downpipe v2, PRL frontpipe, AFE Takeda intake (switching to PRL Cobra Race in the next 20 days)

Problems/issues: 1 CVT failure around 33,000 miles, replaced under warranty (thankfully).

Driving style: Average/relatively conservative during the Monday-Friday commute 28 miles each way. Sporty and aggressive on weekends. I've done a couple autocross sessions.


KMui
Vehicle: 2016 Civic EX-T sedan

Total tuned time: 18 months

Total tuned mileage: 10,000+ miles

Tuning device(s) used: Hondata Race

Tunes used: Hondata +6

Fuel used: Shell 93

Additional engine mods: Injen SRI

Problems/issues: Blown transmission after pushing too hard on 3.4.4 firmware from Hondata. Tune consisted of base +6, Increased throttle, turbo spooling, and traction control mods. When I first uploaded this tune, i had a “Emissions System Problem”. Thought it might go away after a few days but was still there after a week. One night after some spirited driving, I parked my car and suddenly the transmission was having severe issues connecting power from the engine, car was basically in limp mode. Was not able to get the car to move at all the next day. Luckily, my Honda dealer hooked me up and honored my warranty and replaced the transmission with no charge. Now currently running the previous +6 tune now with no traction control mods since I think this new tune w/ traction control (after the 3.4.4 firmware) is causing the Emissions Systems Problem code.

gtman note: This was a CVT transmission

Driving style: Iron Foot, but now more conservative after the blown tranny issue.

Tuning experience notes: Only used base tunes and mods that Hondata offered through the UI.


Syntek
Vehicle: 2016 EX-T Sedan.

Total tuned time: 2.5 years

Total tuned mileage: Over 30k miles.

Tuning device(s) used: Hondata / KTuner v1.2

Tunes used: Hondata +9 imported and calibrated for the CVT then K Tuner 21 map after the head gasket blew.

Fuel used: Shell 91 80% of the time / Chevron 91 20% of the time.

Additional engine mods: K&N SRI AirCharger intake / Mishimoto oil catch can

Problems/issues: Faulty injectors causing misfiring on cold start near 32k miles(?). Blown head gasket around 56k miles.

Driving style: Same as my current Si, except without the rev-hang because.... CVT...


kshawn
Vehicle: 2017 civic SI coupe

Total tuned time: 2 years

Total tuned mileage: 38k

Tuning device(s) used: ktuner

Tunes used: Ktuner Stage 2, Ktuner stage 2 starter(me adjusting), meth tune on stock turbo(derek), meth/e35 tune on gtx2860r (Derek)

Additional engine mods: prl intake, turbo kit, and sticker.

Fuel used: 93(8% eth) mixed with more X85 on some days to make E35. Meth injection.

Problems/issues: knock knock. Who's there? Rod. Rod who?. Rod threw you.

Driving style: aggresive like any other 24 year old.


BMSPEC
Vehicle: 2018 Civic Sport hatch - Si L15B7 engine

Total tuned time: ~10 months

Total tuned mileage: ~10,000 miles

Tuning device(s) used: Hondata CARB, currently using KTuner V2

Tunes used: KTuner 21, Derek Robinson 91oct and E30 w/ misfire disable

Fuel used: Shell 91, Chevron 91, Propel E85

Additional engine mods: [On top of Si engine swap] DIY cold air intake, MAP proto oil cooler, 2qt Accusump, Clutch Masters FX725

Problems/issues: Broken motor mounts, overheat and oil starve at Buttonwillow Dec 2018. Blew stock turbo and replaced engine + turbo with Si versions for safety factor ahead of Gridlife Streets of Willow in Feb 2019. HPFP over-pressure (Sport and Si HPFP systems are incompatible) caused full power cuts during competition. Crankshaft position sensor freaked out over lightweight flywheel, causing RPM oscillations in 2-3-4 gears, 90% solved with a CKP relearn and DRob/KTuner finessing the engine tune. Speed sensor (in the trans) broke 2x, fixed with a shim under the sensor. Axle CV joints broke in Oct 2019, may just have to treat axles as consumables when using a plate LSD (MFactory 1.5way).

Driving style: Time Attack car w/ daily commute.


Myx
Vehicle: 2018 Honda EX-T Hatchback CVT

Total tuned time: 2.5 years

Total tuned mileage: 27100 miles

Tuning device(s): KTuner v1, Ktuner V2

Tunes used: Ktuner Stage 2, TSP Stage 1, Custom Tunes

Fuel used: 92-93 Octane, Boostane

Additional engine mods: Myxal SRI-CAI (PRL Race Maf, S&B Air Filter, 27Won Turbo Inlet PIpe, Utilizing PRL Cobra CAI PIping), Si Turbo, Depo Racing Intercooler and Pipes, 3" PRL Catted Downpipe, Custom Tune

Problems/issues: None **Until recently**

Driving style: Speed Limit City/Highway 95%, 4% Dragstrip, 1% Datalogging Wide open throttle

Tuning experience notes: Absolutely great experience with zero issues from the tuner or the car. However, I blew my engine a couple days ago testing what I should not have been testing. Was testing a race gas tune with non-race gas in the car. Was trouble shooting why on map 1 and map 2 I was only getting 17psi. Figured I must've loaded the wrong tune (which I did). Switched to map 3, which was for race gas, but it was too aggressive for non-race gas. Starting at about 4800rpm, ran wide open throttle and somewhere between 4800rpm-5500rpm, the engine went POOF. Found a piece of connecting rod on bottom of engine with oil everywhere. I'll admit it felt like a Hellcat for a few seconds. Engine currently being torn apart for analysis and rebuild at race shop. To be continued!

Notes/Advice:
1) Always practice safety,
2) When running hard, ALWAYS make sure the car is running 100% before you do.
3) Even while trouble shooting, take baby steps while ramping up power,
4) Never make an assumption on what tuning maps you are running on. Know 100% what you have uploaded and be sure you have the proper fuel(s) to support those maps at ALL times.
5) Even if you have a custom tune with a map for higher octane fuel, do not load it up unless you are running that fuel. Switch to a TSP Stage 1, Ktuner Stage 2 or custom tune that have all three maps for the octane you are running on. Don't put yourself in that situation, period.


FlyByeBlueSi
Vehicle: 2017 Civic Si

Total tuned time: 11 months

Total tuned mileage: 14k miles 54k-68k miles

Tuning device(s) used: Hondata (non carb)

Tunes used: +9, +6 and Prl base map

Fuel used: 93

Additional engine mods: PRL CAI(race MAF), PRL downpipe(catless) and front pipe, custom 3" exhaust, Mishimoto intercooler and piping, Mishimoto radiator hoses,

Problems/issues: rod through block at 54k miles, lost 4th gear at 57k miles, and Friday 05-29-2020 blown head gasket(while idling at Taco Bell drive through) at 68k miles about to tear it down and see all the damage. EXTREMELY terrible suspension issues (OEM), turbocharger gasket oil leak, NGK plugs foul after about 3 months,

Driving style: average with some spirited driving and sometimes a little rolling fun, NO track use.

gtman note: This vehicle was purchased used with 36,000 miles already on the clock. Meaning that we don't know if the car was properly maintained or abused before FlyByeBlueSi bought it.


TheMarkedOne
Vehicle: 2018 Civic SI Coupe

Total tuned time: 12 months

Total tuned mileage: est 12,000 miles

Tuning device(s) used: Ktuner V1.2

Tunes used: TSP Stage 1

Fuel used: Sams Club 93

Additional engine mods: Mishimoto SRI, PRL Downpipe, Frontpipe, Boomba Recirulating BOV

Problems/issues: Sparkplug in cylinder 1 blew out damaged and cracked the piston and block. (Motor is toast)

Driving style: No Chill, drop the clutch everywhere and top speed run any chance I get. Commute to college and work. Once done I would hit up the local meet and race anyone there, be it cruise or otherwise.

Tuning experience notes: This is the first car I bought and I had no previous tuning experience or manual experience otherwise. I learned from my friends gti and bought this. I abused the car through and through day in and day out. But I loved the thrill and wanted more power. I tuned the car with a ktuner v1.2, my laptop and ordered a tune from tsp. Unfortunately doing one of my pulls the motor blew. I'm lucky to be alive and I don't own the vehicle anymore since I would be too irresponsible with it.


blacklion703
Vehicle: 2017 Hatchback EX CVT

Total tuned time: 25 months

Total tuned mileage: 60,000

Tuning device(s) used: Hondata Flash Pro (Race)

Tunes used: Hondata +6, Powermetric Stage 1

Fuel used: 93

Additional engine mods: Injen SRI, Injen Intercooler + piping, frontpipe and catted downpipe

Problems/issues: None

Driving style: very angry

Tuning experience notes: No issues at all. I don't beat on my car but I am not easy on it either. The tuning has made the car very fun to drive. Going to add the Sirimoto Flex Fuel kit and the PRL CVT cooler and use the Powermetric stage 2 tune

***Update***

Blew my motor at about 70100 due to Flex Fuel and not data logging to have e-tune adjusted. Totally my fault.
Switching to Ktuner this weekend and saying away from Flex Fuel.


dallasjhawk
Vehicle: 2016 Civic EX-T sedan

Total tuned time: 44 months

Total tuned mileage: 89,000 miles

Tuning device(s) used: Hondata Flashpro, currently using KTuner V2

Tunes used: Hondata +6, KTuner Starter 21, Vit 93 octane, Vit E30, TSP Stage 1 for non-Si (current)

Fuel used: Chevron 93 & Kroger e85 when running ethanol

Additional engine mods: AF Dynamic SRI, K&N Filter

Problems/issues: CVT Started getting trippy and slipping at 25k miles on Hondata. Switched to Ktuner did a custom ethanol tune and shot it to the moon. Got a new CVT under warranty. Been tuned with Ktuner now for 70k miles on the new CVT with no issues.

Driving style: Beat the hell out of it, also cruise, taken 2600 mile road trips, a little bit of everything

gtman note: His first CVT was possibly defective from the factory (although he did push it hard with a custom ethanol tune).


BigGuyBigBrain
Vehicle: 2016 EXT Coupe CVT

Total tuned time: 6 Months

Total tuned mileage: ~7,000

Tuning device(s) used: Ktuner 1.2

Tunes used: Ktuner Stage 2

Fuel used: 91/93

Additional engine mods: None

Problems/issues: Thrown rod but iffy circumstances - I went on vacation leaving my car with my cousin, told him 91+ fuel only. He admittedly put in 87 and was pulling hard on the freeway 110+ MPH.

The same night that I get the car back, a spark plug totally fails and I go limp mode, have to replace it. It was good for 5 more months, then I get all sorts of lights on dash and flash back to stock. Car starts to misfire maybe a week later, bad plugs once more, replaced again. Maybe another week later I throw a rod pulling from a stop sign under 2K RPMS on stock tune."

Driving style: Mostly normal, slightly aggressive when feeling it. I think this happened due to abuse and incorrectly gapped plugs.



Nickthewaffler
Vehicle: 2018 Civic Sport Hatchback CVT

Total tuned time: 16 months+

Total tune mileage: 24,000 miles+

Tuning device: Ktuner

Tunes used: Homemade 21psi Ktuner tune with lower psi in "Gear" 1, flex fuel, aggressive turbo ramp or something like that - don't notice the difference in hard pushes tbh.

Fuel used: E30 - E50 mix chevron and g&m

Additional engine mods: PRL Cobra CAI, 2 step flex fuel, cusco motor mount, muffler delete

Driving style: First 10 minutes warm up, than spirited driving with aggressive, constant speeding and harsh acceleration with wheel spin. Average about 22mpg. Canyon runs at full throttle monthly.

Update:
Destroyed CVT at 46k miles. 2 track days running e40. Temps around 100f.
Successful replacement with SI 6sp. Added Prl downpipe and fp since making the original post.


Virhan
Vehicle: 2017 Civic CVT 1.5T Hatchback

Total tuned time: 1 month

Total tuned mileage: 1500 km

Tuning device(s) used: KTuner V1.2

Tunes used: dual starter 16/18 psi, MAF self calibration, IAT retard ignition correction

Fuel used: Pertalite octane 90

Additional engine mods: K&N cone filter only w/ self mods MAF hose, pipe & heat shield
- ORD (local) downpipe catless, frontpipe, centerpipe, resonator & muffler (full system)
- china blow off valve
- Type R hood bonnet
- spark gap tightening 0.7 mm

Problems/issues: - high negative value STFT (-10%)
- high knock control, knock retard and everything about ignition
- actual ignition retard @1,250-1500 RPM
- high IAT (hard to below 50⁰C)

Driving style: slow at downtown, fast at uptown

Tuning experience notes: All issues SOLVED by tunes and all engine mods. First, device able to live monitor what actually happened, then fix the issues. STFT deviation : easy fix by calibrating, knock and ignition retard : hard to solve, finally need tightening spark gap-double heat shield mods successfully fix the issues, high IAT : solved even better than factory stock air filter (37⁰C vs 45⁰C in average).

Update - bent connecting rod

gtman notes: Car was driven through a flood. Blow off valve, self tuning and fbo without a pro custom tune all contributed to the failure IMO.

--------------------------

Just a couple takeaways from these failures that are crystal clear...

#1 - It's not a Hondata versus KTuner thing. The failures are clearly evenly divided between both tuning solutions.

#2 - 13 failures out of 446 submitted cars (as of 12/13/20) show how few and far between catastrophic failures are. Some are from abuse. A couple are from bumping power too high and pushing it too hard. There was user error. This all kind of hammers home the fact that using conservative (base or ots) tunes is the safest bet. Once you start pushing things too far, the safety margin does get notably smaller. - gtman

"Rivan case"
The fuel used was "Pertalite" ?
I guess this user is from Indonesia, isn't it? Damn, pertalite 90 RON is equivalent to 84-85 Octane in U.S ? I will never ever buy such fuel even if my car is in factory tune.
China BOV? This is the true abusive treatment.

 

[gtman]

Sadly, I just added our 14th failure from the tuning thread...

hobby-man bent a rod while WOT datalogging for a new custom e-tune by D-Rob.

Here's a guy who has a beautifully modded car with meticulous maintenance and monitoring. No abuse. Only about 13,000 or so tuned miles driven.

I am shocked and sad. Speechless really.

 

[gtman]

So, something is starting to be a "thing".

Looking over the failure stats from the tuning reliability thread, we still only have a less than 3% overall failure rate which is good. Especially considering that a number of those failures were from flat out abuse or neglect. But, there's an alarming trend.

There are 230 Si's in the thread so far. Of those, only 3 had major failures. That's a low 1.3% failure rate or roughly 1 in 100 cars. That's solid. Amazing really.

There are 208 tuned non-Si turbos in the thread. Of those, 11 have failed. That's a 5.3% failure rate or about 1 car out of 20. That's a bit worrisome to say the least. And it's clear from the non-Si failures that the rods and CVTs are the weakest links.

It's also interesting to note that most tuned 10th gen failures have occurred on cars with bolt ons. Nothing scientific, just an observation.

At this point, it's important for all tuned owners to add their cars to the tuning reliability thread. That way, we can keep our eye on 10th gen tuning reliability info and keep it accurate and updated.

 

[kefi]

press f to pay respects ?

 

[ChefRyeSi]

Fantastic work @gtman you really are doing gods work. I think the moral of the story, coming from someone who is very close to FBO and a W1, don't buy a CVT expecting much from it and don't mess around with meth/tuning if you don't know how. Take the Si/non for what it is and leave it, its not worth it unless you have free money to spend and even then. Be conservative on the tunes and use proper gas w/ the maintenance to match and you're good to go.

 

[kytos]

Sadly, I just added our 14th failure from the tuning thread...

hobby-man bent a rod while WOT datalogging for a new custom e-tune by D-Rob.

Here's a guy who has a beautifully modded car with meticulous maintenance and monitoring. No abuse. Only about 13,000 or so tuned miles driven.

I am shocked and sad. Speechless really.

F. Maybe bad quality gas with too much ignition advance?

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