Engine mods for K20C2?

Civic_rob

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There are plenty of instances of interchangeable camshafts for older K20s. For instance, there's the Drag Cartel 2.2 Endurance Cams for the Honda / Acura K20 & K24 Engines, though I would probably try used cams first. Other parts might need to be replaced to accommodate these, but I'm not really too sure. I don't know of anybody putting these into the K20C2, so maybe it hasn't been tried
Those cams would not work as our displacement is 2.0 and that's for a 2.2. There would be clearance issues not to mention I doubt those could idle without any supporting mods let alone run well. We have i-vtec on the exhaust cam so that's also another hurdle to consider. I've been slowly working towards a 200+hp 200+tq K20C2 and instead of forced induction have decided on nitrous. I'm purchasing a multimeter so I can find the TPS Sensor for WOT so the nitrous can engage and we'll see how it goes. I'll be having it tuned after as well so I'll have proof of the numbers I'm claiming I'll make.
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civil-k-2020

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Those cams would not work as our displacement is 2.0 and that's for a 2.2. There would be clearance issues not to mention I doubt those could idle without any supporting mods let alone run well. We have i-vtec on the exhaust cam so that's also another hurdle to consider. I've been slowly working towards a 200+hp 200+tq K20C2 and instead of forced induction have decided on nitrous. I'm purchasing a multimeter so I can find the TPS Sensor for WOT so the nitrous can engage and we'll see how it goes. I'll be having it tuned after as well so I'll have proof of the numbers I'm claiming I'll make.
Really? I thought these cams worked on stock K20/24 engines. Where did you find the information about the displacement difference?
 

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Really? I thought these cams worked on stock K20/24 engines. Where did you find the information about the displacement difference?
I called up Skunk2 and asked specifically if they know would it fit the K20C2 engine. They told me that they haven't tested the fitment on the newer K-series motors and that it might fit but that they cannot be responsible if it doesn't.

These K-series aren't the same K series of old. Here is a somewhat technical article explaining the differences between old and new K series granted the new K20C1 is out of the Type R but you'll get the point.

The K20C2 has VTEC on the intake cam while the exhaust cam does not. It's opposite for the Type R cam with VTEC being on the exhaust cam and no VTEC on the intake cam since it's got a turbo instead.

Furthermore, added a cam to the CVT wouldn't improve as much as adding a cam to a manual. It may improve the simulated gear ratios in the CVT but there would be a lot of R&D to be done as far as valve timing, VTEC engagement, etc which is not offered in any ECU tuning software KTuner included. KTuner only has a basemap for us 2.slow owners and with custom tuning you can't set VTEC engagement and are pretty limited to what you can edit.

That's not to say a KTuner isn't worth it and a custom tune is worthless it just means that you can only edit a set amount of parameters using the KTuner. Most people aren't modifying their 2.slows to be race cars because the 1.5Ts are available or even the K20C1 2.0T from the Type R. I found that they share a decent amount of architecture with the Type R being built for boost and the K20C2 2.slow is built more for economy.

That being said, I don't think a bit of boost would harm the K20C2 engine as long as it isn't used as an endurance engine with said boost. Of course this is assuming you've figured out the tuning issue with positive manifold air pressure, plumbing, etc. You could always run it off wastegate pressure but the amount of money you'd have to spend for an unreliable/untested setup you could probably just engine swap it to an actual K series of old like the K24A2 or K20A2 IMO.

I'm not sure why 2.2 was assumed as the displacement. The K24's have 2.4L stock and the K20's are 2.0. Maybe the 2.2 in the title was why. If I said 2.2 as the displacement then I was incorrect and apologize. You could get a stroker kit for certain K20's and probably reach a 2.2L displacement but I'm not sure that's applicable here.
 

civil-k-2020

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I called up Skunk2 and asked specifically if they know would it fit the K20C2 engine. They told me that they haven't tested the fitment on the newer K-series motors and that it might fit but that they cannot be responsible if it doesn't.

These K-series aren't the same K series of old. Here is a somewhat technical article explaining the differences between old and new K series granted the new K20C1 is out of the Type R but you'll get the point.

The K20C2 has VTEC on the intake cam while the exhaust cam does not. It's opposite for the Type R cam with VTEC being on the exhaust cam and no VTEC on the intake cam since it's got a turbo instead.

Furthermore, added a cam to the CVT wouldn't improve as much as adding a cam to a manual. It may improve the simulated gear ratios in the CVT but there would be a lot of R&D to be done as far as valve timing, VTEC engagement, etc which is not offered in any ECU tuning software KTuner included. KTuner only has a basemap for us 2.slow owners and with custom tuning you can't set VTEC engagement and are pretty limited to what you can edit.

That's not to say a KTuner isn't worth it and a custom tune is worthless it just means that you can only edit a set amount of parameters using the KTuner. Most people aren't modifying their 2.slows to be race cars because the 1.5Ts are available or even the K20C1 2.0T from the Type R. I found that they share a decent amount of architecture with the Type R being built for boost and the K20C2 2.slow is built more for economy.

That being said, I don't think a bit of boost would harm the K20C2 engine as long as it isn't used as an endurance engine with said boost. Of course this is assuming you've figured out the tuning issue with positive manifold air pressure, plumbing, etc. You could always run it off wastegate pressure but the amount of money you'd have to spend for an unreliable/untested setup you could probably just engine swap it to an actual K series of old like the K24A2 or K20A2 IMO.

I'm not sure why 2.2 was assumed as the displacement. The K24's have 2.4L stock and the K20's are 2.0. Maybe the 2.2 in the title was why. If I said 2.2 as the displacement then I was incorrect and apologize. You could get a stroker kit for certain K20's and probably reach a 2.2L displacement but I'm not sure that's applicable here.
I am also leaning towards boost. Last time I checked Ktuner actually has limited boost tools for the K20C2 (timing delay, fueling increases) that are dependent on positive pressure. I'm convinced that the whole ECU can't read positive pressure thing is misinformation and misinterpretation at best. I've called Ktuner twice and they were unable to confirm this, and said that the K20C2 may up for development if the community asks for it. If this is the case I'm sure it will be a pretty standard boost set up for a certain max psi (which we need to figure out, but I'm thinking 7-10 psi).
 
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I am also leaning towards boost. Last time I checked Ktuner actually has limited boost tools for the K20C2 (timing delay, fueling increases) that are dependent on positive pressure. I'm convinced that the whole ECU can't read positive pressure thing is misinformation and misinterpretation at best. I've called Ktuner a couple twice and they were unable to confirm this, and said that the K20C2 may up for development if the community asks for it. If this is the case I'm pretty sure it will be a pretty standard boost set up for a certain max psi (which we need to figure out, but I'm thinking 7-10 psi).
I'm throwing nitrous at it since it's similar to boost just by a different means. Being port-injected and NA really makes me want to just slap some custom JE Pistons with a higher compression ratio and run like a 150hp shot. A progressive system with the proper condition limiters would probably be fun and safe to run. A window switch would be a must and I have the WOT switch already with a bottle warmer. I think that one guy with a turbo on his K20C2 tried to have someone tune it and it wasn't possible even with the KTuner but don't quote me on that. It ran like shit is all I know after hearing it unless he straight piped it with a 5inch exhaust which is probably unlikely.

If you're gonna run boost I recommend a few supporting mods: oil cooler since the Type R is boosted and has more oil cooling passageways built into the block, a better radiator like one from Koyorad, a CVT cooler if you have the rubber band tranny like I do, boost by gear if you have the manual tranny, and get a name-brand turbo like precision or Garrett.

If you find out about the ECU stuff please let me know. I feel that there is some truth to your statement about it being a misconception too but not enough 2.slow owners are motivated or I guess in my specific case stupid enough to void their warranties such as I have.

On the plus side, we have next to 0 recalls in terms of mechanical systems besides the 2016 models and the AC compressor that's on all models. The .5L extra displacement seems to really help in terms of engine stability. I haven't heard of head gasket issues like in the L15 motors or oil issues. Personally I feel that the L series motors are utter garbage in their engineering design but that's just me.
 


civil-k-2020

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I'm throwing nitrous at it since it's similar to boost just by a different means. Being port-injected and NA really makes me want to just slap some custom JE Pistons with a higher compression ratio and run like a 150hp shot. A progressive system with the proper condition limiters would probably be fun and safe to run. A window switch would be a must and I have the WOT switch already with a bottle warmer. I think that one guy with a turbo on his K20C2 tried to have someone tune it and it wasn't possible even with the KTuner but don't quote me on that. It ran like shit is all I know after hearing it unless he straight piped it with a 5inch exhaust which is probably unlikely.

If you're gonna run boost I recommend a few supporting mods: oil cooler since the Type R is boosted and has more oil cooling passageways built into the block, a better radiator like one from Koyorad, a CVT cooler if you have the rubber band tranny like I do, boost by gear if you have the manual tranny, and get a name-brand turbo like precision or Garrett.

If you find out about the ECU stuff please let me know. I feel that there is some truth to your statement about it being a misconception too but not enough 2.slow owners are motivated or I guess in my specific case stupid enough to void their warranties such as I have.

On the plus side, we have next to 0 recalls in terms of mechanical systems besides the 2016 models and the AC compressor that's on all models. The .5L extra displacement seems to really help in terms of engine stability. I haven't heard of head gasket issues like in the L15 motors or oil issues. Personally I feel that the L series motors are utter garbage in their engineering design but that's just me.
I think all the 10th gens have solid engines, though the type R was made for massive boost. I personally wouldn't dare push a C2 turbo set up past 10 psi and probably try to dampen the torque curve to prevent damage to the cvt. A centrifugal supercharger could be a good option, but you'd have to find a way to mount it. If brackets and longer belts were readily available, I might move the alternator to the back of the engine like the L15 and C1 and install a vortech/procharger or rotrex supercharger. Then again, if you are mechanically inclined a basic turbo set up will be a bit cheaper.
 

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Just throwing this out there, I looked up the specs for exhaust vtec lobe on type r cam and the c2 exhaust cam a while back and lift and duration was very similar so there was no point in putting type r exhaust vtec cam in.
 

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Im also about to get both head gaskets for the c1 and c2 and see if they are close enough to install a c1 block on the c2 head. Custom axles would be needed as well.
 

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Im also about to get both head gaskets for the c1 and c2 and see if they are close enough to install a c1 block on the c2 head. Custom axles would be needed as well.
If you are going down that route I recommend a full engine and ECU swap. The block has some important modifications that allow for more boost.
 

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If you are going down that route I recommend a full engine and ECU swap. The block has some important modifications that allow for more boost.
Ecu swap won’t be necessary. Timing chain is same part number also. Crank reluctor wheel on crank may need to be swapped. I like how the crank is offset to cylinders.
 


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If you are looking to run boost, a new ECU is definitely ideal. Stock c2 ECU can't read Boost Pressure. Jerry-rigging something, while it would work, is not ideal. One or two people have managed to, though.
 

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If you are looking to run boost, a new ECU is definitely ideal. Stock c2 ECU can't read Boost Pressure. Jerry-rigging something, while it would work, is not ideal. One or two people have managed to, though.
The c2 has a map sensor and there is a pid for manifold pressure. It’s on my ktuner v2 gauges. Jerry rigging sounds like a degrading negative way of saying custom made. Aren’t all previous gen civics that have added a turbo “Jerry rigged” to work since it’s not factory? Besides today’s ecus rely primarily on the maf and iat sensors. Plus it’s been done before and still hasn’t blown up as of today “Jerry rigged” or not.
 

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The c2 has a map sensor and there is a pid for manifold pressure. It’s on my ktuner v2 gauges. Jerry rigging sounds like a degrading negative way of saying custom made. Aren’t all previous gen civics that have added a turbo “Jerry rigged” to work since it’s not factory? Besides today’s ecus rely primarily on the maf and iat sensors. Plus it’s been done before and still hasn’t blown up as of today “Jerry rigged” or not.
Sorry, not trying to sound degrading or overly negative. However, this isn't a k20 of the olden days. I These cars are not the same as the ones 10, 15, 20+ years ago, either. As you've mentioned elsewhere, the k20c2 has a 2bar MAF sensor which can technically read upwards of 10lb of pressure, however the ECU isn't able to translate that into meaningful data like, say, an already turbo'd car or other cars can. Sure, you can buy something else to control the pressure and piggyback off ECU for other data, or you can buy aftermarket ECU. To do everything right, with quality products, and with reliability a factor, you could easily spend $5k+ on a car to MAYBE make 250whp. The c2 can only handle so much boost before the internals need to be beefed up with forged internals. Then you'll need more fuel to allow for more boost, and going down the chain of things to upgrade you're spending closer to $10k. Almost all the work would be custom fab as there is almost no aftermarket for a k20c2, no turbo kits, next to nobody is doing this. I understand people own the C2 and want to make the most of it, but it isn't as simple, or as cheap, as buying an Si or even just regular 1.5T, spending $449 on a Ktuner w/ Phearable 1.5 and see 220whp and 250+wtq.


If someone wants to do this with their money, that is totally up to them. People simply need to know that this isn't a project to take on lightly, or expect it to be easy. This is going to be a long, expensive, and probably stressful journey, and for what? A car that makes the same or less HP as a 1.5T with a tune?
 

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Sorry, not trying to sound degrading or overly negative. However, this isn't a k20 of the olden days. I These cars are not the same as the ones 10, 15, 20+ years ago, either. As you've mentioned elsewhere, the k20c2 has a 2bar MAF sensor which can technically read upwards of 10lb of pressure, however the ECU isn't able to translate that into meaningful data like, say, an already turbo'd car or other cars can. Sure, you can buy something else to control the pressure and piggyback off ECU for other data, or you can buy aftermarket ECU. To do everything right, with quality products, and with reliability a factor, you could easily spend $5k+ on a car to MAYBE make 250whp. The c2 can only handle so much boost before the internals need to be beefed up with forged internals. Then you'll need more fuel to allow for more boost, and going down the chain of things to upgrade you're spending closer to $10k. Almost all the work would be custom fab as there is almost no aftermarket for a k20c2, no turbo kits, next to nobody is doing this. I understand people own the C2 and want to make the most of it, but it isn't as simple, or as cheap, as buying an Si or even just regular 1.5T, spending $449 on a Ktuner w/ Phearable 1.5 and see 220whp and 250+wtq.


If someone wants to do this with their money, that is totally up to them. People simply need to know that this isn't a project to take on lightly, or expect it to be easy. This is going to be a long, expensive, and probably stressful journey, and for what? A car that makes the same or less HP as a 1.5T with a tune?
I don't know why you keep talking about the 1.5t haha you are on the wrong forum. I don't know how many times I have to repeat that the Ktuner rom has boost tools for the K20C2. Let people do what they want with their own stuff. Get off his nuts. Like you are afraid the world is gonna end because someone boosts the C2. My two cents is if you want to put together a kit, yeah do the research, and keep in mind that you might make some mistakes. I just want a community that shares and stops drinking nut shakes all day afraid someone is gonna boost the C2. And if you want to be like you know the C2 like the back of your hand then cite your sources. But my guess is you don't have any real sources. I'm tired of all of this second hand misinformation bs.
 
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I don't know why you keep talking about the 1.5t haha you are on the wrong forum. I don't know how many times I have to repeat that the Ktuner rom has boost tools for the K20C2. Let people do what they want with their own stuff. Get off his nuts. Like you are afraid the world is gonna end because someone boosts the C2. My two cents is if you want to put together a kit, yeah do the research, and keep in mind that you might make some mistakes. I just want a community that shares and stops drinking nut shakes all day afraid someone is gonna boost the C2. And if you want to be like you know the C2 like the back of your hand then cite your sources. But my guess is you don't have any real sources. I'm tired of all of this second hand misinformation bs.
I guess you didn't read the last part of what I said. If you want to spend your money on this project, go ahead. Just know it isn't as simple or as cheap as tuning the c2 for real power.
Also, This is the CivicX forum, does not matter if this is a discussion of L15 or C1 or C2, but maybe you mean is, this is a c2 thread, but what do I know?
Honda Civic 10th gen Engine mods for K20C2? 1634356044201

" 2.0l c2 LX connecting rod 13210-5BA-A00 13210-6B2-A00 and piston is 13010-RPY-G01

The Type R is connecting rod is 13210-6B2-A00 and piston is 13010-5BA-A00
So they are different (internals)"

Derek Robinson/DRobIMW confirmed internals were totally different between c1 and c2, and said while this was unique, it was "useless" and to "stop driving this under load" before the original person to boost their c2, ThatSlowFC2, blew something up: https://www.civicx.com/forum/threads/first-boosted-k20c2.39278/post-649713 (scroll down for Derek's response)

ECU for 10th Gen C2 is different than previous Gen Civics, would require a lot of work to set it up to read manifold pressure as intended for a turbo setup:
Honda Civic 10th gen Engine mods for K20C2? 1634356632739

Ktuner also doesn't support tuning w/ boost on this platform with their products, so it would almost certainly have to be either MoTec or something else, like tricking Ktuner unit or something, not sure.
Honda Civic 10th gen Engine mods for K20C2? 1634357777776



C2 is 10.8:1 compression while C1 is 9.8:1 compression, meaning it will be harder to do a proper turbo setup to begin with, and would have to be run ultra conservative to avoid problems.

Also, as I stated I am not even hating. I am telling facts and showing reality. There is next to NO aftermarket for the 2.0 NA c2 as nobody is willing to work on them. I am sure down the road they may have an aftermarket, but in a world with the L15 it doesn't make sense to focus on the C2.
Honda Civic 10th gen Engine mods for K20C2? 1634358155650


One last thing, no reason to be rude. I only ever try to offer helpful and accurate information on here. Telling me to " Get off his nuts " and to say my research and knowledge is " second hand misinformation bs " is honestly really fucking shallow of you. If you think you know more than me, show me your SOURCES and EVIDENCE, pal. Show me what your "extensive" research has shown, because clearly you are looking at a different forum, hell a different motor entirely, than I am. And don't bother showing me ThatSlowFC2's info because while he may or may not have made it work, he was awfully deceptive and provided as little information as possible about his build while also being highly incapable of answering basic questions, resorting to harassing people and skirting around answers. I'll be waiting.

At the end of the day, I don't care what someone does with their money, as it's their choice.

However, if you are posting on this forum, then expect different viewpoints, evidence, and especially truth. The truth of the matter is, it makes no sense to build a C2 right now, because there is NO aftermarket, NO kits, NO solutions for this motor. Compared to a L15, you are basically throwing money into a fire if you try to go FBO and boost it. Why spend anywhere between $5k to $10k on a C2, go through all that stress and worrying about everything breaking and not being properly setup, when you can just buy a L15 and spend $449 on Ktuner w/ Phearable and have a reliable and honestly awesome experience, or even used 8-9th gens (WITH MORE AFTERMARKET POTENTIAL)? Honestly, if you want to mod this car, buy a Ktuner, buy an intake, do some weight reduction, and be happy with a reliable throw-around car. Don't go head first into this platform thinking it's as simple as it used to be, because it isn't. Maybe a few years down the road it'll make sense to build a C2, but not right now. Especially when big names are saying so. I'll trust them, and the EVIDENCE, more than I'll trust just a single person on the internet.
 


 


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