Engine mods for K20C2?

[civil-k-2020]

I guess you didn't read the last part of what I said. If you want to spend your money on this project, go ahead. Just know it isn't as simple or as cheap as tuning the c2 for real power.
Also, This is the CivicX forum, does not matter if this is a discussion of L15 or C1 or C2, but maybe you mean is, this is a c2 thread, but what do I know?

" 2.0l c2 LX connecting rod 13210-5BA-A00 13210-6B2-A00 and piston is 13010-RPY-G01

The Type R is connecting rod is 13210-6B2-A00 and piston is 13010-5BA-A00
So they are different (internals)"

Derek Robinson/DRobIMW confirmed internals were totally different between c1 and c2, and said while this was unique, it was "useless" and to "stop driving this under load" before the original person to boost their c2, ThatSlowFC2, blew something up: https://www.civicx.com/forum/threads/first-boosted-k20c2.39278/post-649713 (scroll down for Derek's response)

ECU for 10th Gen C2 is different than previous Gen Civics, would require a lot of work to set it up to read manifold pressure as intended for a turbo setup:

Ktuner also doesn't support tuning w/ boost on this platform with their products, so it would almost certainly have to be either MoTec or something else, like tricking Ktuner unit or something, not sure.

C2 is 10.8:1 compression while C1 is 9.8:1 compression, meaning it will be harder to do a proper turbo setup to begin with, and would have to be run ultra conservative to avoid problems.

Also, as I stated I am not even hating. I am telling facts and showing reality. There is next to NO aftermarket for the 2.0 NA c2 as nobody is willing to work on them. I am sure down the road they may have an aftermarket, but in a world with the L15 it doesn't make sense to focus on the C2.

One last thing, no reason to be rude. I only ever try to offer helpful and accurate information on here. Telling me to " Get off his nuts " and to say my research and knowledge is " second hand misinformation bs " is honestly really fucking shallow of you. If you think you know more than me, show me your SOURCES and EVIDENCE, pal. Show me what your "extensive" research has shown, because clearly you are looking at a different forum, hell a different motor entirely, than I am. And don't bother showing me ThatSlowFC2's info because while he may or may not have made it work, he was awfully deceptive and provided as little information as possible about his build while also being highly incapable of answering basic questions, resorting to harassing people and skirting around answers. I'll be waiting.

At the end of the day, I don't care what someone does with their money, as it's their choice.

However, if you are posting on this forum, then expect different viewpoints, evidence, and especially truth. The truth of the matter is, it makes no sense to build a C2 right now, because there is NO aftermarket, NO kits, NO solutions for this motor. Compared to a L15, you are basically throwing money into a fire if you try to go FBO and boost it. Why spend anywhere between $5k to $10k on a C2, go through all that stress and worrying about everything breaking and not being properly setup, when you can just buy a L15 and spend $449 on Ktuner w/ Phearable and have a reliable and honestly awesome experience, or even used 8-9th gens (WITH MORE AFTERMARKET POTENTIAL)? Honestly, if you want to mod this car, buy a Ktuner, buy an intake, do some weight reduction, and be happy with a reliable throw-around car. Don't go head first into this platform thinking it's as simple as it used to be, because it isn't. Maybe a few years down the road it'll make sense to build a C2, but not right now. Especially when big names are saying so. I'll trust them, and the EVIDENCE, more than I'll trust just a single person on the internet.

I agree that it doesn't make sense to go for insane numbers on this platform until there has been a lot of research done and probably aftermarket support. But I standby whoever wants to try. I do however think it is reasonable and probably not too expensive to try a conservative build and see how everything holds up. In any case, an excuse to learn to weld, put together a catted turbo dp and manifold (somebody should find out whether the 9th gen si manifolds work). Installing adapters for the maf and iat sensors in the intake piping. Honestly that's where the fun is to be had, just got to put the time into learning how to do it the right way. ThatSlowFC2 went a little overboard IMO I'd probably opt for a home built kit with a 7-10 psi max, which is honestly enough for me. Personally I will wait since my own car is relatively new. But everybody has their own clock regarding when they feel ready to mod.

Regarding Ktuner, the boost tools for the K20C2 are found on the ignition tables. I don't know why they would have them there if they didn't work. My advise is to call Ktuner if you have questions about it; they've always indicated to me over the phone that it works, but really the K20C2 platform needs a lot of development on their end.

People throw so much shade at the C2, sorry to put you in the cross hairs like that. Though getting the 1.5 is never the solution haha, not because it is a bad engine but it's just not logical. There are other cars besides the 10th gen civic. If you want power save up for an EV or a motorcycle or something with rwd and a v8. It's time to move on if you really want a new car. Also how about that new Ford Maverick, damn that's sexy. But if you have the K20C2 I say keep it and love it for what it is, and if you get the itch, scratch away.

 

[Romeoridgee]

You are mistaken speed density tuning for maf tuning. The purpose of the map sensor is to adjust fuel pressure accordingly and control the waste gate. Fuel delivery and timing is controlled by the maf. Obviously our ecu can’t control boost which is why you’d need an aftermarket boost controller, (preferably scg-1 with built in afr sensor for overboost and lean protection). As I mentioned before this would have to be custom made. I’m aware of the limited aftermarket availability.
You can’t say the internals won’t hold up because you’ve never seen one boosted. They will hold as much as any other k series. Ktuner hasn’t tuned a boosted c2 so they can’t confirm anything either. Those ktuner posts you shared are trying to put down the c2, very biased and untrue, it can be tuned correctly with a check valve and fpr.
The 1.5 isn’t all that and honestly after all the try hard convincing to trade for si makes be believe the 1.5 owners are scared of the c2 actually making some decent power. This isn’t a post about 1.5. Read the title. Yes this is civicx.com, but irrelevant comments are unnecessary.

 

[gtman]

You can’t say the internals won’t hold up because you’ve never seen one boosted. They will hold as much as any other k series. Ktuner hasn’t tuned a boosted c2 so they can’t confirm anything either. Those ktuner posts you shared are trying to put down the c2, very biased and untrue, it can be tuned correctly with a check valve and fpr.

The 1.5 isn’t all that and honestly after all the try hard convincing to trade for si makes be believe the 1.5 owners are scared of the c2 actually making some decent power. This isn’t a post about 1.5. Read the title. Yes this is civicx.com, but irrelevant comments are unnecessary.

The guy made some very valid points. I get it, he owns a 1.5T, so what? That means he needs to stay out of any thread regarding the other 10th gen engine?

I'm in the camp of anyone can do anything they want with their car, their time and their money. But, like he said, I think it's valid to look at the other side of the coin. This will be a costly and potentially challenging swap. As long as someone is comfortable with that, more power to them (I love a good pun lol).

Keep in mind there are a lot of people reading these forums who honestly have no clue about what the potential issues of a swap might be. So IMO, letting people see both sides of a project like this is a positive.

 

[civil-k-2020]

The guy made some very valid points. I get it, he owns a 1.5T, so what? That means he needs to stay out of any thread regarding the other 10th gen engine?

I'm in the camp of anyone can do anything they want with their car, their time and their money. But, like he said, I think it's valid to look at the other side of the coin. This will be a costly and potentially challenging swap. As long as someone is comfortable with that, more power to them (I love a good pun lol).

Keep in mind there are a lot of people reading these forums who honestly have no clue about what the potential issues of a swap might be. So IMO, letting people see both sides of a project like this is a positive.

Regarding swaps, if you can get your hands on the C1 it could be a good option. If you have the manual transmission, you might be able to get away with just buying a better clutch. It might run you into the green but in the end you will have a solid and probably road legal build.

 

[Romeoridgee]

The guy made some very valid points. I get it, he owns a 1.5T, so what? That means he needs to stay out of any thread regarding the other 10th gen engine?.

Actually yes. There’s a reason there are separate sections for the 1.5. This isn’t a post about comparing engines. There are other posts for that. This post is specifically for the c2 engine. He’s like the 1000th 1.5 owner that has commented on a 2.0 post regarding trading. WE ARE DONE HEARING IT!! It’s not happening. 1.5 owners (or even type r owners) want to Keep the c2 in the shade to keep them selves on their high horse.

 

[Romeoridgee]

@rwk226 what evidence or research have you or your trustees/big names have done to prove boosting the c2 won’t be reliable or capabile of power?

 

[gtman]

Romeoridgee,

I don't really get your take here. I own a 1.5 turbo and I also run the community tuning thread/database that includes all 10th gen models and engines. I don't see where someone owning one engine means they can't comment on an engine they don't have. It's a discussion board, right?

If someone told me the 1.5 sucks, I'd defend the engine, but I wouldn't say they don't have the right to say it's garbage.

Bottom line, the K20C2 is a good engine. Frankly, Honda doesn't make a bad engine.

No one is saying not to turbocharge your engine. That's 100% your choice and all of us would be interested in following the build.

 

[rwk226]

@rwk226 what evidence or research have you or your trustees/big names have done to prove boosting the c2 won’t be reliable or capabile of power?

I gave helpful, informative advice concerning what would need to happen with boosting a c2, but also offered my two cents and why it probably isn't a good idea. There are a lot better options out there for performance, and while gtman is right with his statement that Honda doesn't make a bad motor, the K20C2 is NOT like previous k20 motors, despite the name.

I take it you didn't read anything I posted last night, either, because I pointed out how Ktuner, DRob, etc. all state that it is very difficult to boost a c2, and even go as far as to saying not to.

For the third time, it's your money, spend it how you like. People ask for advice, information, opinions, research, evidence. I simply provide. If you don't like what I have to say, then don't listen to me. Do your own research, make your own decision. If you want to boost your C2, then be my guest. Just know what you're getting yourself into with this project. Want a project where you learn a lot? Like a challenge? Cool, this might be for you. Just don't be surprised or complain when it fails or gets too challenging or expensive to keep up.

 

[civil-k-2020]

I gave helpful, informative advice concerning what would need to happen with boosting a c2, but also offered my two cents and why it probably isn't a good idea. There are a lot better options out there for performance, and while gtman is right with his statement that Honda doesn't make a bad motor, the K20C2 is NOT like previous k20 motors, despite the name.

I take it you didn't read anything I posted last night, either, because I pointed out how Ktuner, DRob, etc. all state that it is very difficult to boost a c2, and even go as far as to saying not to.

For the third time, it's your money, spend it how you like. People ask for advice, information, opinions, research, evidence. I simply provide. If you don't like what I have to say, then don't listen to me. Do your own research, make your own decision. If you want to boost your C2, then be my guest. Just know what you're getting yourself into with this project. Want a project where you learn a lot? Like a challenge? Cool, this might be for you. Just don't be surprised or complain when it fails or gets too challenging or expensive to keep up.

IMO one of the big limits for most owners with the C2 is the same with the B7: the CVT

 

[Romeoridgee]

I gave helpful, informative advice concerning what would need to happen with boosting a c2, but also offered my two cents and why it probably isn't a good idea. There are a lot better options out there for performance, and while gtman is right with his statement that Honda doesn't make a bad motor, the K20C2 is NOT like previous k20 motors, despite the name.

I take it you didn't read anything I posted last night, either, because I pointed out how Ktuner, DRob, etc. all state that it is very difficult to boost a c2, and even go as far as to saying not to.

For the third time, it's your money, spend it how you like. People ask for advice, information, opinions, research, evidence. I simply provide. If you don't like what I have to say, then don't listen to me. Do your own research, make your own decision. If you want to boost your C2, then be my guest. Just know what you're getting yourself into with this project. Want a project where you learn a lot? Like a challenge? Cool, this might be for you. Just don't be surprised or complain when it fails or gets too challenging or expensive to keep up.

you showed no evidence, research, or data. Ktuner has showed no evidence, research or data. Only “advice and suggestions”. Both of which have no experience with boosting a c2. So I will say your advice is ill equipped as you don’t know anything about the c2 boosted.

Romeoridgee,

I don't really get your take here. I own a 1.5 turbo and I also run the community tuning thread/database that includes all 10th gen models and engines. I don't see where someone owning one engine means they can't comment on an engine they don't have. It's a discussion board, right?

If someone told me the 1.5 sucks, I'd defend the engine, but I wouldn't say they don't have the right to say it's garbage.

Bottom line, the K20C2 is a good engine. Frankly, Honda doesn't make a bad engine.

No one is saying not to turbocharge your engine. That's 100% your choice and all of us would be interested in following the build.

the op says mods for c2, doesn’t say “should I Trade for one that’s already turbo” anything else is not needed. Can we please stick to the topic on subject. Thank you.

 

[rwk226]

IMO one of the big limits for most owners with the C2 is the same with the B7: the CVT

Not going to lie, I have NO idea if the CVT is the same for the C2 engines as it is for the B7s. If they are, then that's one good thing the C2 has going for it: lots of overhead. We have L15s pushing upwards of 300whp and 270-300wtq and so far, no issues with CVT, so if they share the same CVT then that's one less thing to worry about breaking. Tuning is a huge part for CVT longevity, as well as how the driver manages throttle.

you showed no evidence, research, or data. Ktuner has showed no evidence, research or data. Only “advice and suggestions”. Both of which have no experience with boosting a c2. So I will say your advice is ill equipped as you don’t know anything about the c2.


the op says mods for c2, doesn’t say “should I Trade for one that’s already turbo” anything else is not needed. Can we please stick to the topic on subject. Thank you.

Okay. First off, how many c2's do you know of that are boosted? I only know of one, and that's ThatSlowFC2. We have no idea what turbo or ECU or piggyback or ANYTHING about his setup, as he's kept things very close to the chest. Second, when a man such as Derek Robinson / DRob says not to do something, you might want to think about it. He's been tuning cars for years now, and has experience that trumps anything any of us could ever have. Third, high compression motor + non-forged internals = problems. If you don't burn your exhaust valves up you're throwing/destroying a rod.

Sorry, in terms of engine mods for a K20C2:
Ktuner, AEM air intake system (Injen causes fuel trim and MAF issues, K&N intake also has weird MAF scaling and will open a dead spot between 2,000 and 3,000 RPM), RV6 downpipe. Those are your primary mods to choose from. Civic_Rob is/was working on NOS for his C2, haven't seen if he's made any progress or not yet though. Exhaust is not restrictive enough (except downpipe) to warrant a full exhaust system unless you so desire for the weight savings. Sparkplugs, injectors are both fine for the car as well. AFAIK there are no e85 kits available, and stock injectors wouldn't be able to handle high amounts of ethanol anyways. There are no aftermarket cams right now, either. Lowering the car and adding strut/sway bars would help with cornering and handling, but that isn't engine mods. You can go as far as weight reduction (lightweight rims, if you have a coupe and don't use rear seats you can remove those, muffler delete), too.

 

[CVTsport18]

This thread went to over dramatic levels real quick. Nobody is keeping anyone or any engine down. Lmao The guy was just putting out info we've known for years at this point.

I wish there was just a plug and play kit for the 2.0. The guy who made his own appears to still be running just fine. Last I heard he needed a new clutch and was taking it easy while waiting to replace it.

To be honest, it feels like the best chance of finally seeing a cut and dry pathway for this is going to come from some dedicated folks willing to sacrifice a few engines. I don't think that'll happen until these cars are cheap on the used market.

 

[civil-k-2020]

This thread went to over dramatic levels real quick. Nobody is keeping anyone or any engine down. Lmao The guy was just putting out info we've known for years at this point.

I wish there was just a plug and play kit for the 2.0. The guy who made his own appears to still be running just fine. Last I heard he needed a new clutch and was taking it easy while waiting to replace it.

To be honest, it feels like the best chance of finally seeing a cut and dry pathway for this is going to come from some dedicated folks willing to sacrifice a few engines. I don't think that'll happen until these cars are cheap on the used market.

I want to see some 7-10 psi builds. Can somebody please make this happen? Would love to know how it all shakes out.

 

[rwk226]

If the tune is conservative enough, I don't think a sub-10 psi build would be impossible, you simply have to figure out a few factors like fueling, timing, and other stuff that makes this task rather challenging. I agree with CVTSport18, once enough of these cars are on the market for dirt cheap it would be a great time to really play around with them, see what the limits are. Especially since it's a carryover motor into 11th gen, they will be around to stay for a while. Will be interesting to see how it pans out in a few years.

 

[charleswrivers]

I’d lurk the RSX forums for information since the C2 looks to be an A3 derivative on paper. They didn’t get much love and C2s don’t get much either, but there is a good deal more history and information over there. In 3-4x the amount of time they’ve done much more with A3s (albeit with a stronger aftermarket). This old necro’ed thread is indicative of the C2’s performance-story.

I’m a bit surprised we haven’t seen someone buy a used CTE supercharger since they’re not made anymore but had been shown to made easy power on the older cars. I figure that’d happen before folks trying to cobble together turbo kits, but there is one turbo C2 around, though he tried to liquidate his kit at one time. I’m not sure it’s still in the wild anymore.

The cars have been out so long that they’re now out of production… so I’d be surprised to see the aftermarket blow up with a lot of cool stuff... but custom stuff for the adventurous few is always a possibility and has the added benefit of bragging rights. Sometimes doing something is is own reward.

Having had both an A3 base RSX and a A2 type S, the difference in a performance NA K and a not-performance is pretty large. It was still the Si-motor for the gen 7 Sis though and plenty strong. I’d love to see a A2/Z1/Z3 swap and mods, staying NA. It’d be a beautiful thing and I think it’s be comparatively economical. It took a good bit of money to just make a A3 match an A2 car to where you might as well of ditched it gone with an A2 off the bat, and even a head swap didn’t give all the changes internal to the block. Head swaps with the older engines were looked at when GenX released and was not able to be done… as the K-series has had substantial differences over the last two decades to the point I’m surprised they haven’t just called it something different.

Good luck with a C2 journey and wherever that may lead.

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