ECU Tune Drivability

Estoril4

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Good evening, I'm searching for input from those who daily drive their tuned Rs. Specifically, I'm wondering how much of that extra power is usable on mediocre roads with "high performance" A/S tires. Is an aggressive compound a must? Is it worth it in general or will I be breaking traction in lower gears without a lot of throttle modulation? Back road corner exits without getting pinged by tcs constantly? Im assuming you're limited to putting your foot down in at least 3rd+ although I've heard you can tune to dynamically change boost depending on your gear. Also how convenient was the process of sending the ecu in and any issues with honda?

Coming from an AWD platform, any gains you got were put straight to the ground and could really be felt. The R honestly doesnt feel too fast to me, save for maybe in boost in third gear; unbiased opinions on whether this may pay dividends for me or am I chasing something that the car wasnt meant to be? I of course did not purchase the car with straight line speed in mind and the handling thoroughly speaks for itself but I think I've made all of the changes I'm going to make outside of the engine/ecu. Would a smaller gain in something like just a DP be a better choice for me to retain drivability?

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I came from a 500hp Evo and a 400hp Golf R most recently. FWD and this car’s overall balance have convinced me to keep the engine stock thus far.
 

8yourv8

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Im currently running Hondata on my car with there base flash. The car dynoed 286whp and 271 tq bone stock and then i uploaded base flash no tuning the car is running 331whp and 361 tq. It pulls harder and i enjoy the extra power and boost im running. I also was a Evo guy in past and this is a good platform just not so much for quarter mile like my Evo was.

Honda Civic 10th gen ECU Tune Drivability 20180824_125844-1164x873
 
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Estoril4

Estoril4

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Im currently running Hondata on my car with there base flash. The car dynoed 286whp and 271 tq bone stock and then i uploaded base flash no tuning the car is running 331whp and 361 tq. It pulls harder and i enjoy the extra power and boost im running. I also was a Evo guy in past and this is a good platform just not so much for quarter mile like my Evo was.

20180824_125844-1164x873.jpg
How does it feel around town? Boost looks to come on sooner and stronger so more usable tq without revving it out?
 

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Good evening, I'm searching for input from those who daily drive their tuned Rs. Specifically, I'm wondering how much of that extra power is usable on mediocre roads with "high performance" A/S tires. Is an aggressive compound a must? Is it worth it in general or will I be breaking traction in lower gears without a lot of throttle modulation? Back road corner exits without getting pinged by tcs constantly? Im assuming you're limited to putting your foot down in at least 3rd+ although I've heard you can tune to dynamically change boost depending on your gear. Also how convenient was the process of sending the ecu in and any issues with honda?

Coming from an AWD platform, any gains you got were put straight to the ground and could really be felt. The R honestly doesnt feel too fast to me, save for maybe in boost in third gear; unbiased opinions on whether this may pay dividends for me or am I chasing something that the car wasnt meant to be? I of course did not purchase the car with straight line speed in mind and the handling thoroughly speaks for itself but I think I've made all of the changes I'm going to make outside of the engine/ecu. Would a smaller gain in something like just a DP be a better choice for me to retain drivability?

Cheers
Traction is an issue with High Performance All Seasons. I'm on 235 wide Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+, and the stock tune trips traction control in first and second. I would not let concerns of traction stop you from tuning though. You can vary the torque target by gear to match your tire performance. When you throw the sticky tires on, you can crank up the torque :)

Dealing with Hondata was great. I opted for the remote clone so that I could keep my stock ECU intact and not deal with shipping. They were very prompt, and proactive in calling me to make sure I knew what I was getting in to and how to get it done right. If you're worried about issues with Honda, keeping your stock ECU helps.
 


8yourv8

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Yes its fine driving it around and it picks up much quicker. Yes you feel the extra torque and boost i love it man.
How does it feel around town? Boost looks to come on sooner and stronger so more usable tq without revving it out?
 

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Good evening, I'm searching for input from those who daily drive their tuned Rs. Specifically, I'm wondering how much of that extra power is usable on mediocre roads with "high performance" A/S tires. Is an aggressive compound a must?

They are not a must, not because of the tire itself, but the car. However: why you would buy something less for such as performance vehicle? I'm using A\S DWS 06 (245/40/18) in the inclement Chicago's weather (snow, cold, rain, atomic holes, everything) While, we can not compare the OEM units, due its summer nature, the compound in the Contis, it is just phenomenal. Plenty grip. And while the car is tuned & with supporting mods, in never moment loses its posture or feels overpower. In the rain at high speed, they feel awesome.

Is it worth it in general or will I be breaking traction in lower gears without a lot of throttle modulation? It is worth. I daily mine everyday & the feel now from stock remains the same, but with more power to use & not having to rely too much in lower gears.

Back road corner exits without getting pinged by tcs constantly? Im assuming you're limited to putting your foot down in at least 3rd+ although I've heard you can tune to dynamically change boost depending on your gear. Also how convenient was the process of sending the ecu in and any issues with honda? I don't see often the TCS light, TBH I feel FWD drivers tend to modulate better than other layouts such as AWD or RWD, where you rely different on turns, the LSD on the CTR it is mighty.

Coming from an AWD platform, any gains you got were put straight to the ground and could really be felt. The R honestly doesn't feel too fast to me, save for maybe in boost in third gear; unbiased opinions on whether this may pay dividends for me or am I chasing something that the car wasnt meant to be? I of course did not purchase the car with straight line speed in mind and the handling thoroughly speaks for itself but I think I've made all of the changes

When tuned the car feels: in lower gears really smooth, this is dictated the way the tune is set (boost by gear kinda thing), at least I feel it this way with my Hondata 93 file.
On higher gears, the car feels really fast. But the main added factor is the rapid build you get, specially on highway, that can be compared to a big turbo on an AWD.


I'm going to make outside of the engine/ecu. Would a smaller gain in something like just a DP be a better choice for me to retain drivability? It will all come down to budget, if you have the ways, advice: do everything in one shot. cheapest way possible, I put everything myself in one weekend: DP, IC, Intake & tune. In budget, best bang for your buck is just a tune.

Cheers
Hope this helps! :thumbsup:
 
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Estoril4

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Perfect, appreciate the detailed responses. I'm currently on pilot A/S 3+; I guess what im after is that I've experienced straight line speed and it's not too important to me but will adding a tune to the R mess up the essence of the car or enhance it. Sounds at least like the answer is it wont mess things up
 

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Perfect, appreciate the detailed responses. I'm currently on pilot A/S 3+; I guess what im after is that I've experienced straight line speed and it's not too important to me but will adding a tune to the R mess up the essence of the car or enhance it. Sounds at least like the answer is it wont mess things up
Tuning is all about enhancement. You can make the car behave the way you want it to (within reason of course :)).

Here's Hondata's 91 octane tune for reference:
Honda Civic 10th gen ECU Tune Drivability ctr_stock-vs-hondata-tune



The initial torque buildup curve is unchanged, but has a higher peak and holds an increase across the rev range. In our case with less than sticky tires that higher peak can pose a traction issue. Easy solution is to keep the torque request down to near stock levels across the mid-range (3 - 4k RPM) but maintain the elevated values for the upper range (4k - redline). This way you keep a bunch of area under the curve and mitigate traction issues. Same goes for factoring in gearing, and limiting torque request on a per gear basis. In fact, Hondata already does a great job of this in their tune (by gear and by mode), and you can use their work as a baseline to mess around with and fine tune if you see fit.
 
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Estoril4

Estoril4

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Tuning is all about enhancement. You can make the car behave the way you want it to (within reason of course :)).

Here's Hondata's 91 octane tune for reference:
ctr_stock-vs-hondata-tune.gif



The initial torque buildup curve is unchanged, but has a higher peak and holds an increase across the rev range. In our case with less than sticky tires that higher peak can pose a traction issue. Easy solution is to keep the torque request down to near stock levels across the mid-range (3 - 4k RPM) but maintain the elevated values for the upper range (4k - redline). This way you keep a bunch of area under the curve and mitigate traction issues. Same goes for factoring in gearing, and limiting torque request on a per gear basis. In fact, Hondata already does a great job of this in their tune (by gear and by mode), and you can use their work as a baseline to mess around with and fine tune if you see fit.
Makes sense. Out of curiosity, the initial torque on the tuned run seems to be lower than the stock run until about 3k rpm. Is this just variability in runs whereas the small difference is insignificant or does the tune run lower torque at lower rpms?
 


lorenkb

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Makes sense. Out of curiosity, the initial torque on the tuned run seems to be lower than the stock run until about 3k rpm. Is this just variability in runs whereas the small difference is insignificant or does the tune run lower torque at lower rpms?
Not 100% sure, but I'd say run to run variability.
 

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I daily drive my car with stock wheels and all season to res.

Here is what I found:

Ktuner stage 1 with low end torque reduced map is good. Ktuner stage 0 also good. On cooler days you will trip traction control in sport mode at full throttle in 1st and usually 2nd. R mode is a little more accommodating.

Customized boost by gear maps will be best for your particular car, but obviously you either need to know how to change torque targets (not super hard) or have a reputable tuner do it for you.
 

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Perfect, appreciate the detailed responses. I'm currently on pilot A/S 3+; I guess what im after is that I've experienced straight line speed and it's not too important to me but will adding a tune to the R mess up the essence of the car or enhance it. Sounds at least like the answer is it wont mess things up
I'm running stage 1 Ktuner. Every now and then, I would get on it with my A/S tires, but it wasn't easy. I felt like I needed to dial down a bit to maybe stage 0.

I've told I can dial down the initial torque (even though I was already running dampened torque in low rpms already).

But as @Noize mentioned, sometimes with FWD, you have to ask yourself...isn't this enough power already :D
 
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Estoril4

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I'm running stage 1 Ktuner. Every now and then, I would get on it with my A/S tires, but it wasn't easy. I felt like I needed to dial down a bit to maybe stage 0.

I've told I can dial down the initial torque (even though I was already running dampened torque in low rpms already).

But as @Noize mentioned, sometimes with FWD, you have to ask yourself...isn't this enough power already :D
Yup my question exactly. I'd probably be fine with a slight bump in power but assuming adding just intake/DP without a tune can be dangerous.. seems you either jump in or not with the jaikbreaking
 

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Yup my question exactly. I'd probably be fine with a slight bump in power but assuming adding just intake/DP without a tune can be dangerous.. seems you either jump in or not with the jaikbreaking
How can adding dp without tune be dangerous?
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