Dream time: Would the Type R be faster with an automatic?

BABY NSX

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Just kind of curious what people think and get some arm chair quarterbacking going.

I know that for many the Type R through all the versions have the “soul” of the Type R, one factor being a manual transmission. That brings in variability as far as 0-60mph times making it up to driver skill to squeeze out as much as possible by virtue of their ability to row through the gears. I’ve seen times between 4.9 seconds to 5.9 seconds.

The Velocitor N is getting a dual clutch transmission soon which may make it faster than a Type R. It’s pretty close as is, manual to manual tranny.

The 0-60mph time is not the only thing that makes up a car but with an automatic transmission, how much faster do you think a Type R could be? Would it be feasible? Heresy?

 

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I’d imagine the Type R would put up faster and more consistent lap times with a performance oriented automatic. A DSG or a tuned 10-speed something like that
 

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Just kind of curious what people think and get some arm chair quarterbacking going.

I know that for many the Type R through all the versions have the “soul” of the Type R, one factor being a manual transmission. That brings in variability as far as 0-60mph times making it up to driver skill to squeeze out as much as possible by virtue of their ability to row through the gears. I’ve seen times between 4.9 seconds to 5.9 seconds.

The Velocitor N is getting a dual clutch transmission soon which may make it faster than a Type R. It’s pretty close as is, manual to manual tranny.

The 0-60mph time is not the only thing that makes up a car but with an automatic transmission, how much faster do you think a Type R could be? Would it be feasible? Heresy?
When I shift in the Type R it's anywhere between 0.5-1.0s long. A lot of DCTs can go below a 10th of a second, we'll say it does it at a quarter of a second just to give a little lee-way. So the difference in shift time would be (normal shift time - automated shift time) * number of shifts to get to 60. The number of shifts to get to 60 is 2 for the CTR. So let's say that we're shifting aggressively then we get (0.5-0.25)*2 = 0.5s difference from shifting alone. Since some people can shift faster, the time saved in shift would depend on the person.

Note this doesn't take into account the negative acceleration being applied (when you are off throttle) during the shift. You'll get a slight advantage in time from that as well. This time increases as the gearing goes up, but let's say that it's 0.1s per shift. Then we add that in and we get a total of 0.7s.

If you want to get some idea of something more concrete, you can also look on this list here for the Golf R since we know it's available as both automatic and manual. The 2016 manual Golf R makes it to 60 in 5.1. The 2015 Golf R does it in 4.5. VW quotes 4.5s for the current generation Golf R, so that 2015 time is most likely the automatic. The Golf R only requires 2 shifts to get to 60 so the total time difference is 0.6s, so the estimate of 0.7s is not too far off. Keep in mind that the Golf R also does have slightly different gear ratios for the two transmissions. This could change calculations for the times. The DSG is actually slightly longer which would work against it.

Edit: added some things about the Golf R gear ratios between auto and manual.
 

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Just kind of curious what people think and get some arm chair quarterbacking going.

I know that for many the Type R through all the versions have the “soul” of the Type R, one factor being a manual transmission. That brings in variability as far as 0-60mph times making it up to driver skill to squeeze out as much as possible by virtue of their ability to row through the gears. I’ve seen times between 4.9 seconds to 5.9 seconds.

The Velocitor N is getting a dual clutch transmission soon which may make it faster than a Type R. It’s pretty close as is, manual to manual tranny.

The 0-60mph time is not the only thing that makes up a car but with an automatic transmission, how much faster do you think a Type R could be? Would it be feasible? Heresy?
Of course it'll be faster
 

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It would be faster to 60, probably by half a second or so, but I imagine lap times on track would be about the same since a DCT would add weight.
 
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BABY NSX

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Thanks for the input guys! Yeah just dreaming.


Tinyman392, great breakdown! Very well put! Thanks for your thoughts. Was guessing about 0.5 seconds faster. With an automatic I was guessing the Type R to easily be a mid/high 4 second 0-60mph and low 13 or even high 12 second car in the quarter mile. I know it’s not a drag car but it still would be cool.

Yeah I guess I’m just looking at the competition and just wondering stuff. Automatics have come a long way from the 60s/70s and just wondering what potential an automatic Type R would have. Wouldn’t be as engaging but as far as King of the Hot Hatches Title, there’s some competition out there and I happened to see the Velocitor N was getting an automatic. Just thinking...
 

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Yes, it would be faster because computers shift far faster than a human would be able to. That much is fact.

Would it be as fun or engaging? Most likely not. For some people it would be worth the trade off.
 

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It would be faster, but at the same time it wouldn't be as fun.

Thank you to Honda for saving the manuals!
 


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^ This.

Stolen form miata.net, commenting on a 2020 Porsche 718 Spyder:

414hp. That's more than the 993 Turbo. Which will be the enduring legend? Which would I rather have in my garage?

I'm thinking back to when a 911 Carrera 3.2 had 217hp and a 911 Turbo had 300. 300!

We've arrived at a time when cars have science fiction levels of power and handling and yet will never be emotional legends.

And that really tells that the end of the car has arrived. Technical perfection and yet utter irrelevance.
 

AdamD19DFK8

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An auto would be pure HERESY! lol. I don't care about 0-60 or drag "racing". If I did I would have bought a mustang. It's all about the driving experience for me personally. Being able to carry high speed through corners, braking, and pulling hard coming out of a turn with challenging driving this car excels at. A manual gearbox makes the experience ever so more engaging. For what it is darting off the line isn't that bad though I prefer not to do it often as it will put a ton of strain on the clutch when you slip it a bit to set off without smoking the tires. Even with a DCT it's still front wheel drive.
 
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BABY NSX

BABY NSX

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Thanks for the replies. Yeah, I don’t think Honda would ever offer this as an auto. It wouldn’t fit the lineage of the Type R. But then again people complain about the fact that the current car doesn’t rev to 8,000rpm like the old Type Rs, or whatever rpm they buzz up to. And this engine is accepted. See what they have in store for the future. Will be fun to see.

Definitely true about driver engagement. And those who have never driven a manual tranny will never know. This CTR brings me back to the days of my old modified 1990 Acura Integra I used to have, manual tranny. Man and machine together acting as one. (Ok, a little melodramatic but you get what I mean! Hahha!)

Yeah, just stomping on the pedal isn’t as fun. Just thinking about the competition out there and how this car can stay competitive. Doesn’t have to be competitive I guess but it’s nice to be on top. :)
 

tinyman392

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Thanks for the replies. Yeah, I don’t think Honda would ever offer this as an auto. It wouldn’t fit the lineage of the Type R. But then again people complain about the fact that the current car doesn’t rev to 8,000rpm like the old Type Rs, or whatever rpm they buzz up to. And this engine is accepted. See what they have in store for the future. Will be fun to see.

Definitely true about driver engagement. And those who have never driven a manual tranny will never know. This CTR brings me back to the days of my old modified 1990 Acura Integra I used to have, manual tranny. Man and machine together acting as one. (Ok, a little melodramatic but you get what I mean! Hahha!)

Yeah, just stomping on the pedal isn’t as fun. Just thinking about the competition out there and how this car can stay competitive. Doesn’t have to be competitive I guess but it’s nice to be on top. :)
I don't think it's a lineage thing, I think it's a cost thing. It's an FF car so they really don't care about the 0-60 or ¼ mile numbers much. I honestly wouldn't mind if it revved up to 8000 RPM, though I rarely top 5-6 when I drive anyways. A lot of people want a car that is easy to make go fast, so stomp and go can get very popular (especially with AWD performance cars). I'll be honest and say getting this car to accelerate briskly in 1st and 2nd gear has a steep learning curve to it, but it's rewarding once you've figured out the limits.
 

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Would it be faster with a sequential auto tranny option? for sure!

While other car makers shifted to auto trannies, Honda remained faithfully to the 3 pedal concept “ A delicacy nowadays”, the question is, if the market will force them to offer that auto option on the car..? If so: it would definitely be a monster QUICKER and FASTER, it just has to be good auto, preferably sequential.

Based of feedback, the Acura tranny is not good, at least on the actual models. they might have to consider a non- Honda/Acura supplier unless the one (house- built) could get better for an awesome car such as the CTR.
Good example is the GTI, yes its engine is tuning friendly, but that car and Golf R mostly relies on how quick is the DGS tranny , we can make decent power too, but can Honda give us a decent tranny?

654F5782-0851-4408-9D5D-B88126492CC4.png


Note: today is the official CTR tranny day ;)

 

 
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