Does tire wear/different tires change steering feel?

[davemarco]

I drove a brand new Type R the other day and was surprised at how much stiffer and more confidence inspiring the steering was over mine. Both 2019. The only thing I can think of is that his OEM tires are 100% new, versus mine which are at half-life or less. I also noticed a similar reduction in steering effort and confidence after I took my OEM summer tires off and put my all seasons on. Am I going nuts on both counts, or is this a thing?

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[tinyman392]

I drove a brand new Type R the other day and was surprised at how much stiffer and more confidence inspiring the steering was over mine. Both 2019. The only thing I can think of is that his OEM tires are 100% new, versus mine which are at half-life or less.

Keep in mind that the 2017-19 CTRs have a different suspension setup from the 2020-21 models. This results in a softer comfort mode, but stiffer +R mode if I'm not mistaken. The suspension processor is able to make 2x the number of adjustments per minute as well with the new system. So you do have that difference that exists already.

I also noticed a similar reduction in steering effort and confidence after I took my OEM summer tires off and put my all seasons on. Am I going nuts on both counts, or is this a thing?

Were the tire pressures the same with the OEM summer tires? Did you check them before you removed them? Granted this has a small effect on handling, it is something that is noticeable if the temps drop enough. General rule is 1 PSI per 10 degrees ambient drop.

The other thing is actually traction playing a role too. There is a point as the temps drop where the all season tires will begin to have better traction over a dedicated super-sticky summer tire. Depending on the AS tire, that might be higher than some expect it to be. From my experience, that number was typically around the 70 degree point for me (during street driving!); that is around 70 degrees I feel about the same usable traction in the stock Continentals as I did my Michelin PS AS 3+ (and now my AS4).

There are a lot of variables at play here that may change your perception of confidence and and stiffness. Gaining lots of traction can certainly help confidence while having higher PSI could actually create a very perceivable stiffness.

 

[TheCanadian]

I noticed my car began to pull after I did I tire rotation. I think the R is sensitive to tire wear personally.

 

[TheCanadian]

Keep in mind that the 2017-19 CTRs have a different suspension setup from the 2020-21 models. This results in a softer comfort mode, but stiffer +R mode if I'm not mistaken. The suspension processor is able to make 2x the number of adjustments per minute as well with the new system. So you do have that difference that exists already.

Both the cars he drove were 2019, pre refresh,

 

[polishedmetalctr]

When I put my new Michelin PS4S the steering turn-in definitely felt different

 

[davemarco]

When I put my new Michelin PS4S the steering turn-in definitely felt different

Interesting. In what way?

 

[Lust]

Yes tires can make a big difference in steering feel. It’s usually related to sidewall stiffness. The OEM 20s on stock tires will definitely feel a bit sharper than an 18” wheel with a 35/40 profile tire as an example.

 

[samji]

When I put my new Michelin PS4S the steering turn-in definitely felt different

Do you have OEM sizing or did you go custom sizing?

In my experience, given ideal conditions, the stock contisport6's have more dry grip than the PS4S. But you do get a much better tread wear rating on the michelins, not to mention riding a lot better on the street and a tad less noisier (I think wet performance on the ps4s is better as well). I am running custom sized PS4S's so take my input with a grain of salt ... (255/35/19 on a 9.5in rim)


Running more sidewall makes the turn in feel a lot more softer and less direct for sure. I find myself turning in a lot sooner and having to give it more steering angle to get the car to rotate. On my first shakedown drive, it made me feel like the car was slower (it was not) and the car felt lethargic to how it drove stock. You do get used to it though, until you drive a stock one again lol.

 

[davemarco]

Yes tires can make a big difference in steering feel. It’s usually related to sidewall stiffness. The OEM 20s on stock tires will definitely feel a bit sharper than an 18” wheel with a 35/40 profile tire as an example.

If I wanted maximum sharpness and steering effort, would something like 265/30R19 be the way to go? I'm still on the factory 20's, but I'm finding my steering feel to be softer than it used to be and at times, not as confidence inspiring.

 

[Lust]

If I wanted maximum sharpness and steering effort, would something like 265/30R19 be the way to go? I'm still on the factory 20's, but I'm finding my steering feel to be softer than it used to be and at times, not as confidence inspiring.

Size will play a role along with the type of tire you go with too. Some tires of the same size will have soft or firm sidewalls. PS4S I think will be the best tire for street performance.

 

[polishedmetalctr]

Do you have OEM sizing or did you go custom sizing?

In my experience, given ideal conditions, the stock contisport6's have more dry grip than the PS4S. But you do get a much better tread wear rating on the michelins, not to mention riding a lot better on the street and a tad less noisier (I think wet performance on the ps4s is better as well). I am running custom sized PS4S's so take my input with a grain of salt ... (255/35/19 on a 9.5in rim)


Running more sidewall makes the turn in feel a lot more softer and less direct for sure. I find myself turning in a lot sooner and having to give it more steering angle to get the car to rotate. On my first shakedown drive, it made me feel like the car was slower (it was not) and the car felt lethargic to how it drove stock. You do get used to it though, until you drive a stock one again lol.

I did the stock OEM size. I agree with all of your points: conti slightly more CORNER grip at the limit (although the PS4S def has better 1st gear straight line traction), PS4S way better ride and wet traction, winter dry traction is way better as well they don’t harden up. Steering feel/turn in is slightly noticeably more vague than stock.

Overall way better tire that lasts way longer

 

[Deleted member 47337]

When I put my new Michelin PS4S the steering turn-in definitely felt different

I wanted to also give my 2 cents...

I just bought a 2021 Type R and have gone through tons of tires recently to find the perfect Ultra High Performance All-Season tire. My search drove me bananas...but I finally found the best tire for our cars if you want the very best performing All-Season tire.

Michelin makes amazing tires, but forget them for the Type R. You can get much more performance out of Continental's DWS 06 Plus tires. It came out a week ago.

Michelin's Ultra HIgh Performance All-Season tires are very good, but slightly softer than Continental's DWS 06, and DWS 06 Plus tire, just an FYI...and Michelin's is actually heavier by a few lbs.

I've tried 4 different tires on my Type R and the best performing all-season tire, with the best performance in dry/wet are the brand new Continental DWS 06 Plus tires. They are much lighter than Michelins, have a stiffer sidewall (much more stiffer), slightly better steering than stock, with ridiculous acceleration and braking performance. The 245/40/18 in the DWS 06 Plus tire is lighter than the super thin 245/30 tire that comes with the stock Type R...so that should tell you something.

I only found out about the new DWS 06 Tire when I purchased new 18" wheels on Tirerack for $1500 (everything included) mounted/balanced, lug nuts, tax, etc..

Out the door price...$1500 got me everything I needed for our mild winters here in North Carolina.

Motegi MR145 Traklite 3 Wheels, 18 x 8.5 +35mm offset with 245/40/18 Continental DWS 06 Plus tires.


With the new 245/40/18 at the recommended tire pressure from HONDA (door jam stamp) 35 PSI COLD FRONT, 33 PSI COLD REAR, this performs slightly better than the stock setup...on the road (even with spirited driving). Track driving is different, but 99% of Type R owners daily the car, so what matters is the 99%.

I've tried Michelins (All Season 4, and others...) and they seem to have a softer sidewall than Continental in their Ultra High Performance All-Season class tires...so I wouldn't go that route if you want to feel some meaty tires on the road.

As far as steering feel that you're noticing......it's probably a lack of proper tire break-in, or the difference in thread depth. All-Season tires have more thread depth than summer tires and need to be worn down a bit to get the same road feel.

Also, don't forget to get a proper alignment. The toe is the most important. Caster is not adjustable and camber doesn't really do much to change the steering feel in our cars since the car is so light, but toe will make or break the car's handling if it's off by too much.

Photo Credit to Owner: Another Type R owner on this forum with the exact same setup, accept smaller tire diameter...so mine looks just like this with the same wheel, color, etc...except the tire on mine fills in the wheel well a very tiny bit more to stock height.

A lot of people are doing this exact same setup. Total wheel weight with tire and lug nuts is 42 lbs...lowest I've seen so far by a long shot.

 

[davemarco]

I wanted to also give my 2 cents...

I just bought a 2021 Type R and have gone through tons of tires recently to find the perfect Ultra High Performance All-Season tire. My search drove me bananas...but I finally found the best tire for our cars if you want the very best performing All-Season tire.

Michelin makes amazing tires, but forget them for the Type R. You can get much more performance out of Continental's DWS 06 Plus tires. It came out a week ago.

Michelin's Ultra HIgh Performance All-Season tires are very good, but slightly softer than Continental's DWS 06, and DWS 06 Plus tire, just an FYI...and Michelin's is actually heavier by a few lbs.

I've tried 4 different tires on my Type R and the best performing all-season tire, with the best performance in dry/wet are the brand new Continental DWS 06 Plus tires. They are much lighter than Michelins, have a stiffer sidewall (much more stiffer), slightly better steering than stock, with ridiculous acceleration and braking performance. The 245/40/18 in the DWS 06 Plus tire is lighter than the super thin 245/30 tire that comes with the stock Type R...so that should tell you something.

I only found out about the new DWS 06 Tire when I purchased new 18" wheels on Tirerack for $1500 (everything included) mounted/balanced, lug nuts, tax, etc..

Out the door price...$1500 got me everything I needed for our mild winters here in North Carolina.

Motegi MR145 Traklite 3 Wheels, 18 x 8.5 +35mm offset with 245/40/18 Continental DWS 06 Plus tires.


With the new 245/40/18 at the recommended tire pressure from HONDA (door jam stamp) 35 PSI COLD FRONT, 33 PSI COLD REAR, this performs slightly better than the stock setup...on the road (even with spirited driving). Track driving is different, but 99% of Type R owners daily the car, so what matters is the 99%.

I've tried Michelins (All Season 4, and others...) and they seem to have a softer sidewall than Continental in their Ultra High Performance All-Season class tires...so I wouldn't go that route if you want to feel some meaty tires on the road.

As far as steering feel that you're noticing......it's probably a lack of proper tire break-in, or the difference in thread depth. All-Season tires have more thread depth than summer tires and need to be worn down a bit to get the same road feel.

Also, don't forget to get a proper alignment. The toe is the most important. Caster is not adjustable and camber doesn't really do much to change the steering feel in our cars since the car is so light, but toe will make or break the car's handling if it's off by too much.

Photo Credit to Owner: Another Type R owner on this forum with the exact same setup, accept smaller tire diameter...so mine looks just like this with the same wheel, color, etc...except the tire on mine fills in the wheel well a very tiny bit more to stock height.

A lot of people are doing this exact same setup. Total wheel weight with tire and lug nuts is 42 lbs...lowest I've seen so far by a long shot.

Do you just zero your toe out for front and rear?

 

[Byron Sexton]

Where would you go to get a guaranteed good alignment ?

 

[Shred]

I wanted to also give my 2 cents...

I just bought a 2021 Type R and have gone through tons of tires recently to find the perfect Ultra High Performance All-Season tire. My search drove me bananas...but I finally found the best tire for our cars if you want the very best performing All-Season tire.

Michelin makes amazing tires, but forget them for the Type R. You can get much more performance out of Continental's DWS 06 Plus tires. It came out a week ago.

Michelin's Ultra HIgh Performance All-Season tires are very good, but slightly softer than Continental's DWS 06, and DWS 06 Plus tire, just an FYI...and Michelin's is actually heavier by a few lbs.

I've tried 4 different tires on my Type R and the best performing all-season tire, with the best performance in dry/wet are the brand new Continental DWS 06 Plus tires. They are much lighter than Michelins, have a stiffer sidewall (much more stiffer), slightly better steering than stock, with ridiculous acceleration and braking performance. The 245/40/18 in the DWS 06 Plus tire is lighter than the super thin 245/30 tire that comes with the stock Type R...so that should tell you something.

I only found out about the new DWS 06 Tire when I purchased new 18" wheels on Tirerack for $1500 (everything included) mounted/balanced, lug nuts, tax, etc..

Out the door price...$1500 got me everything I needed for our mild winters here in North Carolina.

Motegi MR145 Traklite 3 Wheels, 18 x 8.5 +35mm offset with 245/40/18 Continental DWS 06 Plus tires.


With the new 245/40/18 at the recommended tire pressure from HONDA (door jam stamp) 35 PSI COLD FRONT, 33 PSI COLD REAR, this performs slightly better than the stock setup...on the road (even with spirited driving). Track driving is different, but 99% of Type R owners daily the car, so what matters is the 99%.

I've tried Michelins (All Season 4, and others...) and they seem to have a softer sidewall than Continental in their Ultra High Performance All-Season class tires...so I wouldn't go that route if you want to feel some meaty tires on the road.

As far as steering feel that you're noticing......it's probably a lack of proper tire break-in, or the difference in thread depth. All-Season tires have more thread depth than summer tires and need to be worn down a bit to get the same road feel.

Also, don't forget to get a proper alignment. The toe is the most important. Caster is not adjustable and camber doesn't really do much to change the steering feel in our cars since the car is so light, but toe will make or break the car's handling if it's off by too much.

Photo Credit to Owner: Another Type R owner on this forum with the exact same setup, accept smaller tire diameter...so mine looks just like this with the same wheel, color, etc...except the tire on mine fills in the wheel well a very tiny bit more to stock height.

A lot of people are doing this exact same setup. Total wheel weight with tire and lug nuts is 42 lbs...lowest I've seen so far by a long shot.

I picked up the same setup as you over the summer in prep for fall/winter. You can feel the weight loss in acceleration. I do think it loses some grip compared to stock, but pretty much any all season will by virtue of the difference in rubber. It's still a great feeling setup for daily and spirited driving, for track you can spring for a grippier tire.

Much better wet grip, haven't used it in a real snow situation but I had to back up at an upwards angle over packed in snow to get access to clear out my driveway this Monday, no issues. I was expecting to have to give it more throttle to get going, the snow also wasn't very high so don't think it will be an absolute beast in the snow but it will get you rolling.