Do you think turbo charging the Si was the right direction for Honda?

amirza786

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This is probably more of a question for those who owned or have driven previous generations of the Si. Did turbo charging the Si improve it, or should they just have kept it NA and improved on the existing engine? I have never driven any versions of the Si prior to the 10th gen, so I can't really speak on this, and am interested in finding out from prior gen Si owners if what Honda has done is an improvement or a step backwards.

Coming from a NA Toyota Camry SE V6 that has about 5 more hp than my Si, I am mixed about Honda's decision to go with a smaller turbo charged engine. For example, I find that power delivery from my Camry is smoother, more linear, and is available all the way thru the rpm range, while power delivery from my Si has to wait for boost to kick in, then it shoots like a rocket but tapers out quickly as it hits fuel cut off. This is really not a concern though, as the Si driving experience is very good, my main concern is reliability. Like my Camry, will my Si's engine be just as good 12 years later? Will I have change out a burned turbo, or some other engine component due to stresses on the smaller engine?

I guess the question should be more, was it wise for car makers in general to go with smaller, turbo charged engines and if this is actually an improvement? I would like to hear others opinions on this



 

Design

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In its current iteration, it's a wash. Trading RPMs/character for usability.

I think with a bit more tweaking, particularly with smoothing out delivery in the higher RPMs, Honda will have a hit on its hands. Though the Si really does need the 2.0T in its next iteration.

Having owned both sides of the equation, I'll take midrange torque over RPMs any day of the week. :cool:
 

SichuanHot

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I think it was indeed a good decision. It's a departure from the car's pedigree coming with a high revving NA engine, but the economical gains are very much worth it. The Si's vast improvements in fuel economy are what sold it for me compared to similar cars like the Mustang Ecoboost, 86/BRZ, and Elantra Sport. I'm not concerned about the reliability of the engine either as other cars have shown, a properly maintained turbo motor can easily last 300k miles, ie. Volvo 850 series cars.
 

demoPEng

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I would have loved to see a turbo charged K24 :)
I love the engine scream of our older Acura TSX. However, I feel Honda and the rest of the industry is feeling massive pressure for efficiency and reducing pollution and consumption.
Personally though, I'm just waiting for all the plebs to buy electric vehicles, so gas prices can plummet and then I can finally own a nice V12 monster.
 

demoPEng

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The Si's vast improvements in fuel economy are what sold it for me compared to similar cars like the 86/BRZ
This actually was the deal breaker for the BRZ for myself... Well, the fact that it felt immensely slower, AND used way more gas. If it was either much faster, or much more efficient, I would have likely went with the BRZ. But for me, I couldn't justify much more fuel for much less speed (torque specifically). The SI is the perfect balance imo for what's on the market now from the Japanese automakers.
 

farqt

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if they hadn't used the new shared L15B7 powertrain platform the car would be more like in the 27 range. they don't really want to do another k20z @ 200hp, and the k24 went over like a lead weight. also, word is that they actually detuned the specific L15 configuration that they ended up going with to make the turbo and motor lifetime parts. that's why there's so much headroom on these motors with simple torque table manipulation.
 

87elco

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For sure...I just think they should've done it sooner ..the k23 turbo motor from the old rdx sh-awd had so much potential.
 



REBELXSi

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As fun as it is to rev the piss out of an engine for fun, being that this Si is my daily, I'm glad it feels powerful enough in the mid range to drive comfortably without always being at some ridiculous RPM. It's nice having much more torque than previous civics and getting such great gas mileage when commuting.

Personally, if I want a car to rev the crap out of, I could build one much cheaper and use that as my toy.
 

BoostedSiCoupe

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this is a very good question. owning many of the high revving hondas and acuras over the last 18 years, I was at first a little disappointed when i first got my 10g si. not necessarily beause the car was turboed, but because it felt underpowered and the way the power is delivered in its stock form was not linear feeling at all.

i missed the race car like feeling and excitement of the high revving vtec engines. because although those engines were somewhat under powered as well, the dramatic high rev shifting made up for it.

but then, ......i flashed this bitch and forgot all about that shit! now i love it more because having the turbo is what actually gives it waaay more potential over the vtec engines of the past. theres no way a base map tune ever came close to giving you the power boost that you get with this si. you would get like 10 to 12 HP flashing a previous Si... it wasnt even worth it.

I remember last gen when it first was released, every1 bitched and said shit like "wtf, when is honda gonna start turboing their si's like everyone else in the class???" "seriously, another NA engine, honda needs to keep up with the times", etc. then when honda turboed it, people were bitching .."wtf, no vtec in an si??? forget it!"... it was retarded.

ultimately turboing the si was definitely the best decision.
 

JJTHESIPLANE

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First post here on the forums...

I think turbocharging was a great idea (at least for where I live in Hawai'i). The usable power band for me is between 2k-4.5k rpm, and there's plenty of grunt for me to pass with our roads and streets being narrow and short. I haven't driven Honda's of old (except for an s2000 which is a friend of mines car) but my old mazda6 with the 2.5l was definitely not the bees knees when when i needed to pass or overtake or even to have fun it. I do enjoy revving the piss out of this motor when I get the chance, which is rare but definitely fun, and it feels like a rocket to me cause this is the fastest car I've ever owned. I think Honda went in the right direction with turbocharging this generation of Si's.
 

thatonedaveguy

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Gen X Si is so much better than past iterations it's not even funny.

Edited to add a bit more to it:

8th and 9th gen Si = Put your foot down... nothing happens....nothing happens....nothing happens....little bit of pep...whelp that's the whole rev range time to shift.

10th gen Si = Put your foot down and you just take off.

At the end of the day their total acceleration time is about the same but it happens so gradually on the old cars that it never really feels that good. The gen X gives you that big sudden surge in power that is a downright joy each time you go from no boost to max boost. Some people don't like that sudden jolt in power but I think it makes the car a little wild and that makes it fun.
 
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nickhaldin

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this is a very good question. owning many of the high revving hondas and acuras over the last 18 years, I was at first a little disappointed when i first got my 10g si. not necessarily beause the car was turboed, but because it felt underpowered and the way the power is delivered in its stock form was not linear feeling at all.

i missed the race car like feeling and excitement of the high revving vtec engines. because although those engines were somewhat under powered as well, the dramatic high rev shifting made up for it.

but then, ......i flashed this bitch and forgot all about that shit! now i love it more because having the turbo is what actually gives it waaay more potential over the vtec engines of the past. theres no way a base map tune ever came close to giving you the power boost that you get with this si. you would get like 10 to 12 HP flashing a previous Si... it wasnt even worth it.

I remember last gen when it first was released, every1 bitched and said shit like "wtf, when is honda gonna start turboing their si's like everyone else in the class???" "seriously, another NA engine, honda needs to keep up with the times", etc. then when honda turboed it, people were bitching .."wtf, no vtec in an si??? forget it!"... it was retarded.

ultimately turboing the si was definitely the best decision.
Yeah I remember on the 9th gen forums, everyone was saying “why aren’t the Sis turboed??? Blah blah blah”. And now everyone wants VTEC back:doh:

Turbo was the way to go. More power and torque, more MPGs, more tunability-win-win-win. :drive:
 

nickhaldin

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Gen X Si is so much better than past iterations it's not even funny.

Edited to add a bit more to it:

8th and 9th gen Si = Put your foot down... nothing happens....nothing happens....nothing happens....little bit of pep...whelp that's the whole rev range time to shift.

10th gen Si = Put your foot down and you just take off.

At the end of the day their total acceleration time is about the same but it happens so gradually on the old cars that it never really feels that good. The gen X gives you that big sudden surge in power that is a downright joy each time you go from no boost to max boost. Some people don't like that sudden jolt in power but I think it makes the car a little wild and that makes it fun.
I disagree a bit in the sense that the 9th gen pulled really strongly from about 4K-6K. It wasn’t as gradual as the 8th, you definitely had to keep it in the sweet spot especially for overtaking. It was much more usable for daily driving than the 8th.
 

TheKevinlyFather

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I don't think anyone will say going turbo was a bad choice. Keeping it at 200hp, however, was a mistake in most people's minds. I believe 1/4 mile times drop over half a second from just a base map tune. Think Honda could have eeked out 225hp and put a better clutch in without jacking up the price of the car too much.
 

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