DIY refrigerant recharge experiences

[Gruber]

Absolutely technically true. I was trying to drive home the point. R134a has a Global Warming Potential rating of 1430 and is absolutely classified as a high global warming potential gas, though technically not "ozone depleting".

I wasn't really referring to R-1234yf - but R134a wasn't classified as harmful in 1995 either, so again, no fucking excuse. Absolutely. lol. And to further the point, it's still illegal to recharge leaking systems in many state and local jurisdictions and that includes R-1234yf.

Don't make excuses for people because I didn't happen to technically draw out every scenario. ?

Yes, it might be against some regulations, but there is absolutely no reason for 1234yf being restricted. You still can blow cans of brake cleaner as you like and buy huge tanks of propane-butane. This is the phenomenon of escalating idiotic regulations, when the actual reason for them becomes entirely lost.

First it was the "ozone hole." When the ozone hole argument fizzled out as ozone hole refrigerants were eliminated, they brought up "global warming," which is something entirely different, and even more doubtful.

So now, the newest auto AC refrigerant 1234yf is completely ozone safe, and global warming safe. Generally safer than anything else ever used in refrigeration on large scale. Yet, curiously, it's also the most restricted. You can't buy it in stores (while 134a is available in grocery stores and gas stations) and it has to be recovered at service shops.
My small refrigerator is filled with pentane. Pentane is highly flamable like butane. Using pentane in refrigerators is idiotic, because there are plenty of better, less crazy refrigerants.

It's all a money-making scheme that can be played successfully only thanks to general public's ignorance in these areas.

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[FC3L15B7]

Yes, it might be against some regulations, but there is absolutely no reason for 1234yf being restricted. You still can blow cans of brake cleaner as you like and buy huge tanks of propane-butane. This is the phenomenon of escalating idiotic regulations, when the actual reason for them becomes entirely lost.

First it was the "ozone hole." When the ozone hole argument fizzled out as ozone hole refrigerants were eliminated, they brought up "global warming," which is something entirely different, and even more doubtful.

So now, the newest auto AC refrigerant 1234yf is completely ozone safe, and global warming safe. Generally safer than anything else ever used in refrigeration on large scale. Yet, curiously, it's also the most restricted. You can't buy it in stores (while 134a is available in grocery stores and gas stations) and it has to be recovered at service shops.
My small refrigerator is filled with pentane. Pentane is highly flamable like butane. Using pentane in refrigerators is idiotic, because there are plenty of better, less crazy refrigerants.

It's all a money-making scheme that can be played successfully only thanks to general public's ignorance in these areas.

?

 

[Shtumpa]

I know it’s illegal even for individuals to fill up an 1234yf system with 134a (though rumor is it works great) but this is first I’ve ever heard it stated that for an individual to charge 1234yf is against regulations. Not that I would care to be honest.

 

[BriteBlue]

I think some of the regulations may be there for safety to protect someone from finding a way to connect a can to the high pressure side or freeze their fingers, etc.

 

[Gruber]

I think some of the regulations may be there for safety to protect someone from finding a way to connect a can to the high pressure side or freeze their fingers, etc.

You can still buy a knife. Boy scouts used to carry knives, though you can cut off your fingers with a knife. And it happens quite often.

But the point is that the 1234yf is no different to other refrigerants, only it's allegedly "environmentally" much safer than anything else so far, so the question is why is it more restricted? Other than just the natural tendency for regulations to sprawl when they are not actively resisted.

No, you won't find a rational cause for the 1234yf is very expensive, not being sold in stores just like the 134a is, or why it's more regulated. The only reason I know is that in case of the 134a the regulations would need to change, while the 1234yf was "new," and so it was easier to impose whatever they wanted.

 

[Shtumpa]

You can still buy a knife. Boy scouts used to carry knives, though you can cut off your fingers with a knife. And it happens quite often.

But the point is that the 1234yf is no different to other refrigerants, only it's allegedly "environmentally" much safer than anything else so far, so the question is why is it more restricted? Other than just the natural tendency for regulations to sprawl when they are not actively resisted.

No, you won't find a rational cause for the 1234yf is very expensive, not being sold in stores just like the 134a is, or why it's more regulated. The only reason I know is that in case of the 134a the regulations would need to change, while the 1234yf was "new," and so it was easier to impose whatever they wanted.

It's "flammable" is the excuse probably

 

[Gruber]

It's "flammable" is the excuse probably

No, it can't be. It's practically non flammable. What's really flammable and explosive is propane. Yet millions of people buy large tanks of propane and untrained people including children operate their grills, cookers, lamps, and other propane devices every day.

This guy talks about 1234yf (I don't quite like his approach to the issue). He says "they" want to put a screw to the DIY'er" by setting up all these restrictions, which is true.
I wonder who is "they" and what right they have to "put a screw".
He also mentions the Honda AC issue.

 

[MaxPower]

No, it can't be. It's practically non flammable. What's really flammable and explosive is propane. Yet millions of people buy large tanks of propane and untrained people including children operate their grills, cookers, lamps, and other propane devices every day.

 

[Shtumpa]

Meanwhile because of the restrictions, some guy in a Philadelphia basement has 1,000 cubic kilometers of this stuff in his basement with 10,000 eBay listings.

If he also happens to be operating a commercial iron smelter and his house happens to get hit by artillery, we may have a problem...

 

[Shtumpa]

Burns at ~6% air with 5-10k mJ ignition required and crazy slow burning velocity LOL

 

[joe3456789]

It's illegal to recharge a cooling system without repairing the leak. Are you complaining about that, or are you wanting that over a proper repair?

You also have to know that a leak destroys the ozone layer that helps protects us from sunburn and skin cancer, so there's no fucking excuse, I have to say..

LOL the Ozone layer is already screwed bro! It's too late!

 

[Shtumpa]

One month after charging, still going strong!

 

[curtngel]

Shtumpa - why wouldn't you take it to a Honda dealer? There's an extended AC component warranty in effect (10 yrs., I think). My '16 started blowing warm air - took it in and they replaced the evaporator and recharged the system at no cost to me. It was actually a very good experience.

Hey Goose. Was your evaporator replaced under the 3 year warranty? Or did they cover it under the 10 year? I had my 2016 civic in for its third a/c diagnostic. First two times they just recharged and added dye, no charge the second time, but I think they charged me $200 the first time. This tine they investigated further, scoped the evaporator, saw green dye, and quoted me $900 for the evap replacement, and another $525 for the recharge. And told me its not part of the extension to 10 years.

 

[civicls]

looked into that it’s not highly flammabe at all - 6% of air with 5-10k mJ ignition. Not concerned. If it was really dangerous it woudnt be used. Of course if it all leaks out immediately don’t keep refilling lol.

The problem with that is the auto-ignition of anthing combustible near it. You see, fire loves and loathes oxygen which is planty available in the atmosphere. Mix that with something combustible and pretty soon that gas tank goes....ka-boom.

 

[civicls]

?

The truth hurts man...1234-yf isn't gonna make those winters go away anytime soon...

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