Dealer denies repair warranty, what to do?

[fuhongl]

So my 2016 Civic EX AC blows warm air, I took it to a dealer and he replaced a what he called "high pressure line", he actually wrote the part number for me, 80312-tba-a02. I paid $600 for the repair, he stated the repair has 12 month warranty.
It was good for two weeks. Then two weeks later, same problem happened again. I took it back to the same dealer, after a few hours, he said there is leak from another suction hose, but different one, this time will cost $500 to repair.
so that 12 month repair warranty is total bull shit. How can I know if he is telling the truth?
I mean, if he mis installed the first time.
The more scary thing is I can come back another 20 times, if there are 20 hose in the Civic AC.

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[shoegazer]

If you can post the paperwork; it may be more clear.

It sounds like the warranty is on the new part and new work only. But that's just me.

Since these cars have such known issues with leaking compressors and condensers; I'm curious why a connector line was replaced. Was there a UV dye test performed?

Read up on the 'goodwill repair' and the pending class action lawsuit that seem to be posted everywhere on this forum.

Good luck with it.

 

[fuhongl]

If you can post the paperwork; it may be more clear.

It sounds like the warranty is on the new part and new work only. But that's just me.

Since these cars have such known issues with leaking compressors and condensers; I'm curious why a connector line was replaced. Was there a UV dye test performed?

Read up on the 'goodwill repair' and the pending class action lawsuit that seem to be posted everywhere on this forum.

Good luck with it.

Yes, dealer claimed they performed a UV dye test. But obviously they missed the second leaking, but they claimed it is very small so they missed it.
About compressors, I kept asking them, but they said it was not the compressor. They said if compressor fails, then the AC won't work, but it worked for two weeks.

 

[Design]

If a compressor coil fails it should still blow warm air. It just won't rotate. Same applies for pressure losses. The fact that it resumed for a couple weeks suggests that the dealer's diagnosis was more or less correct. Though admittedly, AC line failures aren't reported to be common.

It might be worth asking the dealer to refund the second diagnosis fee. But based on your description, I wouldn't expect much beyond that.

 

[shoegazer]

My understanding is that, basically, the whole issue with the compressor is that the seals begin to leak refrigerant. Once the pressure gets too low; it shuts down.

Not trying to press this too hard. I'm just surprised. If you really had *two* separate AC lines fail; that's some serious bad luck.

I wish you good luck with it. And please keep us updated.

 

[BriteBlue]

In the event there really were 2 bad hoses, you should not have to pay for evacuating & recharging the AC system. That would have to be done whether 1 or 2 hoses were replaced. IOW it's duplicate work because the dealer was incompetent on his first diagnosis. But I do question the need for replacing both hoses.

You should take the car to an independent shop that specializes in AC work & get an estimate. See what's in your area & look for Yelp or other reviews. I've had good luck with an independent shop that's been around for many years & know other people that have used them.

 

[racer]

Life lesson here... I read it as two different components (lines) failed. One failed and was replaced for $600. Then a second line failed and needed replacement for $500. Unfortunate? yes. However, when the vehicle left the shop after the first line failure was replaced the AC worked as designed. That work and its warranty are still valid and in place. Once the second line is replaced, it too will be warranteed.

 

[maynard001]

This is why people, in general, don't trust mechanics and assume they're getting ripped off all the time. The general population isn't familiar with cars or engines, which is why we take it to someone to get worked on. When I take my car to the dealer or an independent shop to get worked on I'm not asking them to replace/fix a specific part, I'm asking them to diagnose and fix a problem. If the shop isn't smart or proficient enough to properly diagnose the problem the first time, why should the consumer have to pay for their stupidity?

 

[fuhongl]

What is the tool I can use to defend myself in this case?
threaten to file complaint to BBB?
threaten to file complaint to Honda America?
file lawsuit?
threaten to give them negative reviews all over the web?

 

[Gruber]

It's possible that they replaced the wrong line. Looking for leaks requires some patience and skill and can be very frustrating for people without basic understanding of fluids under pressure.
Even if there actually were two different leaks, which is theoretically possible, that second one is not small. It is huge.

If your AC just about works for one season, but requires a refill every year, this is still not a tiny leak. If your AC, after being fully recharged, stops working after two weeks it's a barn door class of a leak.

They failed to repair your AC the first time. If they had done nothing but just recharged it, it would probably still have worked for two weeks.

They screwed up by missing an obvious leak and now they want you to pay again for venting and recharging.

 

[DoubleDown]

I'm kind of going through the same thing. The first dealership I went to (Culver City, CA) didn't want to honor the warranty work, and treated me like crap. I'm currently looking for another dealership to get this work done.

Here's what they found regarding my AC.

Issue:
AC Compressor Leak

Needs:
AC Compressor Assembly
- 38810-5AN-A02 / Compressor
- 38924-5AN-A01 / Coil Set
- 38900-5AA-A02 / Clutch Set

 

[fuhongl]

I finally picked up my car. they originally want to charge me $500 but after I spoke to the manager, they agreed to no charge.
It's working again. but I don't know how it will last.

 

[fuhongl]

That goes to show you they were trying to play you. There is no way he would just say ahhh ok you can have it for free.

That is what I thought too. They put a different hose in the invoice, but I don't know how real that is.
I asked the manager directly, was it possible it was not installed properly the first time? he only replied the guy has been with Honda for over 20 years.
Car dealers are most scum group of the people, even at places where people are generally nice.

 

[SCOPESYS]

The Honda Civic GenX A/C systems and their issues "may" be quite easily explained.

MY Theory:
When the Car leaves the factory, the A/C system is working perfectly.
The car then sits around for some time before it is transported to the dealer, and then sits on the dealers lot.
During this time, when the A/C is not being used, the Compressor seals dry out and refrigerant start to leak.
Thereafter, each time the A/C is run, the seals get re-oiled by the oil in the refrigerant, and stop leaking (for a time, till they dry out again) - which may start to happen in as short a time as a few weeks.

By the time the car is purchased, and driven off the lot, the refrigerant is probably already low.

Thereafter, if the A/C is not regularly used (for a few minutes at least), the seals dry out again, and start to leak refrigerant.
This probably happens more often in colder climates, where the A/C is not used so much .. (as demonstrated by the high proportion of reported issues from Canada)

When the refrigerant gets low, the A/C stops work as well as it should, and the pre 2019 cars, with the old Suction Tube design, start to make a whining sound - a convenient indication that refrigerant is low,

Now the real trouble starts.. the car is taken to the Dealer.

Personally, I do not believe that many Dealer Techs are that well trained on car A/C systems, so they misdiagnose the issue, assume it is a leaking compressor or condenser, and replace them, hoping it will fix the issue.

Then potentially, in evacuating and re-charging the system, they mess up the refrigerant oil concentration in the system, (Typically making it to low).. and now the systems is even more prone to died up seals, as the oil level is now no longer correct.

After they have worked on the system, and hopefully re-assembled correctly (with new connection seals), the system works for a time, and then the problems return.

Based on the above, the actions I have taken are.
(1) Always run the A/C, at least for a minimum of a few minutes, every time I drive the car.
(2) The first time the air does not seem cold enough, or the A/C starts to make a whistling sound, check the Refrigerant pressures (or have a Competent A/C service tech do this) -- and if the refrigerant is low, top it up.
(3) Avoid if at all possible having the DEALER messing with anything to do with the A/C, because chances are, they will do more damage than good.
(4) If after the 1st Top Up, the issue returns withing say 1-2 years, (as evident by warm air or the tell-take whistle), then consider getting the whole system services, by someone competent with A/C.
(5) FREE warranty service work is very Expensive, if the work is not done correctly, and screw up your A/C system.
(6) Consider KEEPING the 2018 suction hose, and not upgrading to the newer 2019 version, as the 2018 version has the advantage of making a whistle sound when the refrigerant is low.
(7) Just like you probably have a Tire Gauge, and check your tire pressures regularly, consider getting a Manifold set, or at least a Low pressure line gauge, and check your own Refrigerant low pressure IF the A/C is not blowing cold (or whistling), and if it is occasionally low, top it up yourself (using an 8oz can of R1234yf)
It's NOT "Brain Surgery !!

This is what I have concluded to be the actions I will take with my 2018 si A/C, and so far, I have not had to do anything, as the system is working perfectly.
( I know that I purchaed my Si within a few days of it arriving at the Dealership, so it probably had not been sitting around that long, to have it's Compressor Seals dry up)

What course of action you want to take, must be up to you .. I will just say that after 2 oil changes (both with new filters) done by myself, the car has never been back to the Dealer since it was 1st driven off the dealer's lot, and I have had ZERO issues. ( My lower engine skid plate is still firmly attached with all it's screws/bolts present !!)

BTW: Very slight Oil Dilution - I set the oil level to the TOP Mark on the dipstick, a few weeks after getting the car (and after each oil change) and it has remained at that level throughout my ownership of the car.
Also, I have never been without the car, and have not wasted any time in the Dealers waiting room, waiting to be lied to and screwed over.

 

[firefox91]

I agree with SCOPESYS about the dealers. If the original job won't be covered by warranty, don't take it to the dealer. They give you the impression the dealership is the best place to service your car when in fact it's the opposite. They have a rotating door of mechanics in and out of there all the time. Many times they will hire a mechanic that was recently fired from another dealership because they need the body. Small business shops are the way to go. Places that when you walk in the door 1-2-5 years later, you see the same faces. I'm fortunate to have a shop like that and know many of the people there by name and they know mine. And my wife's name too. Yes, you can be ripped off by small shops too. But you are more likely to find an honest small shop than an honest dealership. Dealerships are always pressing for profit margins, they train their people to look for issues that aren't really issues. My mechanic has told me many times, "That will be good for now, but you will want to think about getting it done at the next oil change." A dealer is never going to say that. It's always about selling you that service right now. When the warranty is up, go somewhere else.

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