Dealer chipped wheel swapping out summer tires

[chattanoogaR]

Most Honda dealerships don’t have the tire swapping machine that works on low profile tires (which costs around 20k if I’m not mistaken). So by your logic, most (if not all) Honda dealerships aren’t worth their salt. To be honest, it makes very little financial sense for a Honda dealership to invest in a 20000 dollar machine that they’ll only use to swap tires on Type R’s (of which are very rare to begin with).

I agree with the tech that they never should have touched the wheels since they weren’t equipped to do said service. That statement basically says they fucked up (which they did). But just claiming that any Honda dealership that can’t change tires on a Type R isn’t worth their salt would include most, if not all Honda dealerships as they typically aren’t equipped to swap tires on a Type R. I know the two I frequent the most don’t have the machinery to do it.

Even tire shops like NTB, Discount, and Goodyear can handle lower profile tires, no excuse for Honda dealers to be behind. The fact is simple, if a tech is trained and patient, these swaps are not that serious. It is not a 20k difference in mounting equipment, no idea where you are getting that from. Wheel size is the more mitigating factor, as many shops are equipped to handle up to a 20 inch wheel.

Two Honda dealers in my little neck of the woods, both of them have no problem with doing Type R tire swaps. (Called them both just to be sure)

There is literally no excuse for claiming "we won't touch those wheels". Basically you are a admitting you are a trash dealer with untalented techs.

Are the Type R stock tires extremely thin? Yes, but they are not Mount Everest.

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[Fountainhead]

Man, the donut idea is really sticking in my mind! With my Z i'd give the tech a 20 bill to be extra careful.

 

[tinyman392]

Even tire shops like NTB, Discount, and Goodyear can handle lower profile tires, no excuse for Honda dealers to be behind. The fact is simple, if a tech is trained and patient, these swaps are not that serious. It is not a 20k difference in mounting equipment, no idea where you are getting that from. Wheel size is the more mitigating factor, as many shops are equipped to handle up to a 20 inch wheel.

Two Honda dealers in my little neck of the woods, both of them have no problem with doing Type R tire swaps. (Called them both just to be sure)

There is literally no excuse for claiming "we won't touch those wheels". Basically you are a admitting you are a trash dealer with untalented techs.

Are the Type R stock tires extremely thin? Yes, but they are not Mount Everest.

That’s because NTB, Discount, etc. have a financial incentive to deal with the tires (they probably deal with many cars that have low profile tires vs a Honda dealership). Most luxury vehicle brands and performance cars nowadays have low profile tires. That is a lot of cars since it’s spread among 20-50 manufacturers.

Like I said, no reason to invest 20k in a machine that you’ll use maybe 2-6x a year on a service that pays back 120 per at best. Remove overhead pay and the profit would be like 80 bucks.

So say that the service is done 6x a year (3 Type Rs going in 2 times a year for tire swaps, that’s more than I do on my DD Type R BTW), then we’re looking at 480 dollars a year, let’s round up to 500. To pay back that machine which could cost upwards of 20000 dollars, we’re looking at 40 years. It just isn’t worth it to a dealership to do it when only one rare car can actually use said machine.

Now compare this to a place like NTB, Discount, etc. that may see that same machine used 20-100x more. That is, same 80 bucks per service, but instead of 6x a year, it’s 300x a year. That’s 24 thousand that they could make in profit vs the 480 that the lone Honda dealership would make. That machine pays for itself in a year, and then some. A place like NTB, Discount, etc. has huge financial incentive to purchase such a machine and thus can offer that service.

Maybe in the future as low profile tires become common place, then yeah, it would make sense for Honda dealership to buy this machine. But the fact of the matter is that it doesn’t make financial sense for lone Honda dealership to purchase a 20k machine that is used less than 10 times a year (on a very lucky year).

Keep in mind that just because a service scheduling rep said the tires could be swapped doesn’t mean they can be. Make sure to ask a managing tech. We’ve already had one person on this forum who scheduled a service, asked ahead, and was told yeah they can do it by the scheduling rep. Then they get there only to find out that the tech finds out that they don’t have the proper equipment to do the job and has to tell them the bad news. There’s a thread about it somewhere on here where the user when on a bit of a rant due to that. Most people said that it was wrong of the scheduling rep not to be aware that this couldn’t be done for this particular vehicle, but it was good of them not to attempt the swap because something like this OP’s scenario could come of it.

The fact of the matter is that Honda has released a TSB telling dealerships not to swap tires on Type Rs unless they had the proper equipment (machine designed for low profile tires) which is not the standard equipment that all dealerships have. The fact that they are saying they can’t do it rather than trying then fucking up someone‘s rims (as in this case) would give me more confidence/respect for said dealership than one that says they can then fucks up some rims (like this one did).

 

[chattanoogaR]

That’s because NTB, Discount, etc. have a financial incentive to deal with the tires (they probably deal with many cars that have low profile tires vs a Honda dealership). Most luxury vehicle brands and performance cars nowadays have low profile tires. That is a lot of cars since it’s spread among 20-50 manufacturers.

Like I said, no reason to invest 20k in a machine that you’ll use maybe 2-6x a year on a service that pays back 120 per at best. Remove overhead pay and the profit would be like 80 bucks.

So say that the service is done 6x a year (3 Type Rs going in 2 times a year for tire swaps, that’s more than I do on my DD Type R BTW), then we’re looking at 480 dollars a year, let’s round up to 500. To pay back that machine which could cost upwards of 20000 dollars, we’re looking at 40 years. It just isn’t worth it to a dealership to do it when only one rare car can actually use said machine.

Now compare this to a place like NTB, Discount, etc. that may see that same machine used 20-100x more. That is, same 80 bucks per service, but instead of 6x a year, it’s 300x a year. That’s 24 thousand that they could make in profit vs the 480 that the lone Honda dealership would make. That machine pays for itself in a year, and then some. A place like NTB, Discount, etc. has huge financial incentive to purchase such a machine and thus can offer that service.

Maybe in the future as low profile tires become common place, then yeah, it would make sense for Honda dealership to buy this machine. But the fact of the matter is that it doesn’t make financial sense for lone Honda dealership to purchase a 20k machine that is used less than 10 times a year (on a very lucky year).

Keep in mind that just because a service scheduling rep said the tires could be swapped doesn’t mean they can be. Make sure to ask a managing tech. We’ve already had one person on this forum who scheduled a service, asked ahead, and was told yeah they can do it by the scheduling rep. Then they get there only to find out that the tech finds out that they don’t have the proper equipment to do the job and has to tell them the bad news. There’s a thread about it somewhere on here where the user when on a bit of a rant due to that. Most people said that it was wrong of the scheduling rep not to be aware that this couldn’t be done for this particular vehicle, but it was good of them not to attempt the swap because something like this OP’s scenario could come of it.

The fact of the matter is that Honda has released a TSB telling dealerships not to swap tires on Type Rs unless they had the proper equipment (machine designed for low profile tires) which is not the standard equipment that all dealerships have. The fact that they are saying they can’t do it rather than trying then fucking up someone‘s rims (as in this case) would give me more confidence/respect for said dealership than one that says they can then fucks up some rims (like this one did).

Why do you keep quoting 20k for a machine specific for low profile tire mounting? Again, this is utterly false that it is a requirement to mount these tires. Sure the Hunter machine makes it easier, but it’s mostly the techs ability that matters.

Making excuses for the lack of training at Honda dealers is helping no one.

 

[Caestus]

Disagree. I’d upset because they told you they could work on your wheels when they in fact did not have the tools to do so.

The Civic Type R’s stock rims utilize low profile tires that require a specific machine to remove the tires from without damaging the rim. Honda actually released a bulletin about this and warned dealers about It. The tool that removes low profile tires autonomously without damaging them costs upwards of 20k dollars USD or something like that. The Type R is the only Honda vehicle that utilizes such a rim/tire, so it would make 0 financial sense for a Honda dealership to invest in said tool. Most will actually bring it to another shop/dealership or tell the customer to do so.

Many people on these forums have urged drivers to go to an Acura dealership as they have many cars with such a wheel setup and are equipped to handle such a request.

Edit: though we’ve also seen a post of a user on here complaining that he was told over the phone that his tires could be changed, but then when he arrived the tech told him that he was mistaken as the dealership wasn’t equipped to handle that service. In either case, I’d rather that happened vs what happened to OP.

I have learned that the Type R wheels do NOT need a special machine....

This is some hoax honestly. I will school anyone on mounting and balancing Type R Wheels on 20 year old Coats Machines lol....

 

[Caestus]

Why do you keep quoting 20k for a machine specific for low profile tire mounting? Again, this is utterly false that it is a requirement to mount these tires. Sure the Hunter machine makes it easier, but it’s mostly the techs ability that matters.

Making excuses for the lack of training at Honda dealers is helping no one.

This lmao

 

[chattanoogaR]

I have learned that the Type R wheels do NOT need a special machine....

This is some hoax honestly. I will school anyone on mounting and balancing Type R Wheels on 20 year old Coats Machines lol....

It's like these kids read something on the internet and it automatically becomes fact, then they spread misinformation to the masses.

As if no one can handle low profile tires, they have only been around the past 50 years...

 

[Caestus]

It's like these kids read something on the internet and it automatically becomes fact, then they spread misinformation to the masses.

As if no one can handle low profile tires, they have only been around the past 50 years...

I think the issue stems from the ability to find a quality Tire Tech in this day and age.... Most places pay tire techs between 10-12 dollars an hour..... I pay mine 13.50 and it's hard to find quality help for that wage... it's just the nature of the industry I think. I will not lie though.... there are raise and bonus opportunities that if the individual performs.... they will make more money...

But yeah, to your point people hear one thing and think omg..... no one can do it...

Hunter has a Machine that DOES IT ALL start to finish. The Tech just freaking stands there. and it's 20-25k... so yeah.... they can pay that Tire Tech 12 dollars to stand and watch lol...

 

[tinyman392]

Why do you keep quoting 20k for a machine specific for low profile tire mounting? Again, this is utterly false that it is a requirement to mount these tires. Sure the Hunter machine makes it easier, but it’s mostly the techs ability that matters.

Making excuses for the lack of training at Honda dealers is helping no one.

Honda posted a TSB about it. Someone had posted a picture of it on these forums when the car first released. Specifically told dealers not to use the normal machines to change tires since they could damage the rims (a la what the OP saw). Granted I could be wrong on the price, but people did state it was pricey and not to expect dealerships to have it for only one low volume car that may or may not be serviced at said dealership.

Edit: it was a Honda Parts Bulletin, not a Technical Service Bulletin. I’m not the one saying, Honda is saying that if a dealership doesn’t have one of the two Hunter machines with the right add one/equipment they risk damaging rims. I can see service managers reading this and basically seeing it as, if you don’t have one of these, you risk fucking up some Type R owner’s rims.

 

[chattanoogaR]

Honda posted a TSB about it. Someone had posted a picture of it on these forums when the car first released. Specifically told dealers not to use the normal machines to change tires since they could damage the rims (a la what the OP saw). Granted I could be wrong on the price, but people did state it was pricey and not to expect dealerships to have it for only one low volume car that may or may not be serviced at said dealership.

Edit: it was a Honda Parts Bulletin, not a Technical Service Bulletin. I’m not the one saying, Honda is saying that if a dealership doesn’t have one of the two Hunter machines with the right add one/equipment they risk damaging rims. I can see service managers reading this and basically seeing it as, if you don’t have one of these, you risk fucking up some Type R owner’s rims.

So basically, we have come full circle and you agree that Honda techs need to be trained properly?

When your techs start fucking up customer wheels left and right it’s probably time to realize there is a problem.

Again, literally any experienced installer can handle these swaps.

 

[NapalmEnema]

So basically, we have come full circle and you agree that Honda techs need to be trained properly?

When your techs start fucking up customer wheels left and right it’s probably time to realize there is a problem.

Again, literally any experienced installer can handle these swaps.

Discount tire with the kolache / donut deposit has touched my Type R wheels 4 times now and never a hint of damage.

Skilled tech that doesn't hate you / hate life = your car being ok in their hands

 

[tinyman392]

So basically, we have come full circle and you agree that Honda techs need to be trained properly?

When your techs start fucking up customer wheels left and right it’s probably time to realize there is a problem.

Again, literally any experienced installer can handle these swaps.

I never said that. But let’s agree to disagree then. My statement is that Honda said that techs shouldn’t change Type R tires unless the service center has specific tire changing machines. Most don’t and this will simply say that they can’t service said tires because they don’t have the capacity or tools to do so in a safe manner. It becomes a risk for them to attempt to change the tires since Honda says they’ll risk damaging them.

Edit: if they have said recommended machine and decline service then they’re idiots and I agree with you. If they don’t, they know the limitations of their own abilities as a service center and are smart (otherwise you end up with the case that the OP is in). As for Discount and others doing it without issue, most have the recommended machines since they specialize in tires. I have had two dealerships who don’t have said machine recommend I go a different direction if I wanted to change the tires on the stock Type R. I would have rather them let me know up front than not and damage my rims in the process.

 

[chattanoogaR]

I never said that. But let’s agree to disagree then.

Let’s just agree you had no idea what you were talking about and call it a day.

I, like many others have been switching out low profile tires for decades and know exactly what it takes to get the job done. If Honda feels their techs need the Hunter that is a very telling statement about ability.

 

[tinyman392]

Let’s just agree you had no idea what you were talking about and call it a day.

Ah the good ol' ad hominem. I won't drop to your level, you've shown me everything I need to see. Good bye.

 

[chattanoogaR]

Ah the good ol' ad hominem. I won't drop to your level, you've shown me everything I need to see. Good bye.

The difference between internet smarts and real world smarts, experience.

One day you will get there, take it easy young fella.

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