D-Street Type R AutoX info sharing

trucke

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Our last event is next month. I've run all season on the stock RSB, and I've done pretty well. I've been wary of going to an aftermarket bar because this car is still primarily a backroad burner for me. The autocrossing is just a bonus. Those of you with the Karcepts bar: is the lift off oversteer too excessive for Tail of the Dragon style mountain roads?
I never noticed any lift off oversteer with the Karcepts bar at 3/2 or 1,119 lb/in. I have spun the car at an autocross, but that was attributed to some mild topography change that caught several drivers off guard. In normal spirited driving, I have full confidence that it will not snap oversteer or lift off oversteer.
The speed limit at the Tail of the Dragon is only 35 mph. Not a speed that you can get into trouble with the CTR.
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jrow3

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Karcepts bar is very noisy!

Your spin was due to lifting off the throttle while turning. Been there and done that! The stiffer the bar the more likely that is to happen. Next time you need to slow down and the rear end starts to come around, just give it a little throttle. The rear will pop back into line and you then you can lift more slowly. When you get it right having the rear come around is very useful for getting around cones!
I run the very noisy Karcepts bar at full stiff on concrete when temps are above 50F. In the wet or in the cold, especially on asphalt, I use softer setting (2nd hole from full soft on a 5 hole bar). You can check out my YouTube videos if you want to see how I drive. Smooth and controlled is fast.
That spot on the course had a pretty large drop with many of the car getting some good fender scrap all day long. Keeping the foot down through that part loaded up the front tires more than the previous runs in the morning effectively did the same thing as having lifted off. For all my timed runs in the morning I actually was lifting off there to help keep the car stable. That whole back straight was very bumpy.


Our last event is next month. I've run all season on the stock RSB, and I've done pretty well. I've been wary of going to an aftermarket bar because this car is still primarily a backroad burner for me. The autocrossing is just a bonus. Those of you with the Karcepts bar: is the lift off oversteer too excessive for Tail of the Dragon style mountain roads?
The karcepts bar on full soft is not that much stiffer than stock. You'll only really see lift oversteer when running it at a much stiffer setting. That said running it at 3/2 the throttle oversteer is very manageable and predictable, so I wouldn't be worried about it catching you too much by surprise. It's not like the S2000 where it comes out of nowhere.


Sway Bar Rates:
OEM 2017 Civic Si Rear Sway Bar (18.0mm Solid, 5.9 lbs) = 457 lbs/in
OEM 2017 Civic Type R Rear Sway Bar (20.5mm Solid, 7.5 lbs) = 721 lbs/in

Karcepts 10th Gen Civic Rear Sway Bar Kit - 1.00" O.D. x 0.095" Wall:
Hole 1/1 = 814 lbs/in
Hole 1/2 = 899 lbs/in
Hole 2/2 = 997 lbs/in
Hole 2/3 = 1119 lbs/in
Hole 3/3 = 1265 lbs/in
Hole 3/4 = 1450 lbs/in
Hole 4/4 = 1678 lbs/in
Kit Weight = 5.0 lbs
 
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RacingManiac

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I think the environment condition and the tires can play just as much of a role on the oversteer behavior. On course usually the car is the most nervous with 200TWs on run 1 because rear tires simply had no temp in them at all. Usually made worse early or late in the season when temps are lower in general. These days on the street on PS4S I can get the back end to come loose on a roundabout in the morning (<50F here in Michigan) even on stock swaybar(Sport mode, ESC normal)

Again I am still curious how much of this behavior is from the brake torque vectoring thing trying to "help" you turn...
 

dwag0588

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I think the environment condition and the tires can play just as much of a role on the oversteer behavior. On course usually the car is the most nervous with 200TWs on run 1 because rear tires simply had no temp in them at all. Usually made worse early or late in the season when temps are lower in general. These days on the street on PS4S I can get the back end to come loose on a roundabout in the morning (<50F here in Michigan) even on stock swaybar(Sport mode, ESC normal)

Again I am still curious how much of this behavior is from the brake torque vectoring thing trying to "help" you turn...
There is a sharp left hander on a curvy road right behind my house. I can reliably drift around it off throttle even with warm tires in +R mode with VSA fully on. Something about the surface in combination with the "AHA". This is on the OEM Conti's.
 

AjHawk

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Was able to get out for some more seat time this weekend. This course was unchanged from the Corvette Club that ran the day before, and the long straights really showed it. Quite bumpy on the back straight coming down the hill. All morning I was trying to find a way to hold it flat, but just couldn't find a way. Finally in the afternoon I just kept the foot down (second video).

Best Run of the morning 50.281:


Keeping that foot down on the back straight:
It sounds like you lifted which caused the spin. ? Stay in it!
 


StevenMatchett

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Still waiting on my Type r, but got autocross a buddies today and get to autocross another in NJ tomorrow.

Coming from a Focus RS, first impressions. Weather wasn't ideal lower 40s and pretty damp. Car is significantly faster in a straight line than the RS. Turn in feels night and day over the RS, Type R feel lights where as the RS I feel like I am dragging the front end around and having to wait for for the weight to transfer. Car doesn't like to slide nearly as much as the RS, which can be an advantage and disadvantage depending on the corner. Coming out of a corner feels pretty sluggish comparatively granted AWD vs FWD.


Ended up 2nd in class behind a nation champion in another Type R. Day warmed up and ended up 5th overall out of 100. I'm chalking that up as a win first time autocrossing a FWD car

Car doesn't feel like a DS car IMO, but excited for my fulfillment soon!
 

Jwolf

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Still waiting on my Type r, but got autocross a buddies today and get to autocross another in NJ tomorrow.

Coming from a Focus RS, first impressions. Weather wasn't ideal lower 40s and pretty damp. Car is significantly faster in a straight line than the RS. Turn in feels night and day over the RS, Type R feel lights where as the RS I feel like I am dragging the front end around and having to wait for for the weight to transfer. Car doesn't like to slide nearly as much as the RS, which can be an advantage and disadvantage depending on the corner. Coming out of a corner feels pretty sluggish comparatively granted AWD vs FWD.


Ended up 2nd in class behind a nation champion in another Type R. Day warmed up and ended up 5th overall out of 100. I'm chalking that up as a win first time autocrossing a FWD car

Car doesn't feel like a DS car IMO, but excited for my fulfillment soon!
Under what circumstances is the CTR faster in a straight line to the RS? It is recognized that the RS is undoubtedly faster in a straight line.
 

StevenMatchett

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Under what circumstances is the CTR faster in a straight line to the RS? It is recognized that the RS is undoubtedly faster in a straight line.
It felt faster, but I might have been spinning

Todays event went pretty well placed 3rd in PAX at NNJR. Botched the slalom pretty badly and double triple inputed a few corners

Saturday: Susquehanna Region


Sunday: NNJR
 
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trucke

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It felt faster, but I might have been spinning

Todays event went pretty well placed 3rd in PAX at NNJR. Botched the slalom pretty badly and double triple inputed a few corners

Saturday: Susquehanna Region


Sunday: NNJR
Thanks for sharing your impressions of the Type R. I have experienced the rear stepping out when its wet too! Managed to spin it 180 a couple of times.
Looking forward to meeting you at Zmax. I'll only be there on Sunday!
 

StevenMatchett

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I think it would fall under C&C, but I could see an argument to be made if someone really had a stick up their butt.



Thanks for sharing your impressions of the Type R. I have experienced the rear stepping out when its wet too! Managed to spin it 180 a couple of times.
Looking forward to meeting you at Zmax. I'll only be there on Sunday!
Should be a good blender with 40 people in pro
 

Jwolf

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I think it would fall under C&C, but I could see an argument to be made if someone really had a stick up their butt.
This is my dilemma right now. I know this isn't a performance mod, but it's in a sensitive area that can probably be argued if someone was anal enough.
 

trucke

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