Custom Dyno Tune vs Ktuner with TSP/Phearable Tune

[cammyfive]

I've been digging into the Civic tuning world and was set on purchasing a Ktuner with with the TSP Stage 1 or new Phearable Stage 1 tune. I then discovered that a PC is required for initial registration and uploading and even flashing to the car (if you get a V1.2). I'm a 100% Apple device household so I would have to borrow a laptop from a friend (very inconvenient) or buy a basic one literally for this one task. So I started to rethink my plan and the shop that is installing my PRL Intercooler and charge pipes also has a dyno and is well known in this area for tuning Hondas exclusively (Ebtec in Atlanta, GA). I spoke with them a bit about my options and they said they could tune it on their dyno so I wouldn't have to buy a Ktuner or a PC. That would save me several hundred dollars. In speaking with them I expressed that I am absolutely NOT chasing high hp/tq numbers and pushing this literal turbo super hard on my daily driver. They literally just tuned a 2020 Si with it's owner saying pretty much the exact same thing. I'm attaching the dyno graph which seems like it's probably close to the middle map (2) for TSP. I had my previous BMW tuned this way and liked it as I didn't have to mess with a piggyback or box that needed a PC.

My question is what are the pros of a Ktuner with either TSP or Phearable versus having the car tuned directly on a dyno with a shop that does exclusively Hondas.

 

[cammyfive]

The graph from the 2020 Si is bone stock aside from the tune.

 

[fenix-silver]

I've been digging into the Civic tuning world and was set on purchasing a Ktuner with with the TSP Stage 1 or new Phearable Stage 1 tune. I then discovered that a PC is required for initial registration and uploading and even flashing to the car (if you get a V1.2). I'm a 100% Apple device household so I would have to borrow a laptop from a friend (very inconvenient) or buy a basic one literally for this one task. So I started to rethink my plan and the shop that is installing my PRL Intercooler and charge pipes also has a dyno and is well known in this area for tuning Hondas exclusively (Ebtec in Atlanta, GA). I spoke with them a bit about my options and they said they could tune it on their dyno so I wouldn't have to buy a Ktuner or a PC. That would save me several hundred dollars. In speaking with them I expressed that I am absolutely NOT chasing high hp/tq numbers and pushing this literal turbo super hard on my daily driver. They literally just tuned a 2020 Si with it's owner saying pretty much the exact same thing. I'm attaching the dyno graph which seems like it's probably close to the middle map (2) for TSP. I had my previous BMW tuned this way and liked it as I didn't have to mess with a piggyback or box that needed a PC.

My question is what are the pros of a Ktuner with either TSP or Phearable versus having the car tuned directly on a dyno with a shop that does exclusively Hondas.

A good custom tune is almost always going to be better than an off-the-shelf tune, assuming the tuner knows what they are doing, especially once you start adding other power-adding mods. No downsides to a custom tune, but if you don't have the ktuner device, you won't be able to monitor your boost, fuel trims, IATs, etc to make sure things are ok. Some people don't care about that, but personally, I like having that option to make sure nothing is going horribly wrong.

 

[theblackdogman]

Just install boot camp...problem solved.

 

[cammyfive]

Just install boot camp...problem solved.

We have a new iMac desktop so that’s not something I can take out to the parking garage with me.

I’m asking about a dyno tune vs one of the popular canned tunes.

A good custom tune is almost always going to be better than an off-the-shelf tune, assuming the tuner knows what they are doing, especially once you start adding other power-adding mods. No downsides to a custom tune, but if you don't have the ktuner device, you won't be able to monitor your boost, fuel trims, IATs, etc to make sure things are ok. Some people don't care about that, but personally, I like having that option to make sure nothing is going horribly wrong.

in the BMW world we used a small device ($25 or so) that was an OBDII dongle that relayed that info to a phone app called TORQ or something along those lines.

 

[theblackdogman]

Understood. Here is the other option. Buy a V1.2 and a 20 dollar fire tablet. You would have to borrow a laptop once but then you could upload the tune to the V1.2 and then flash from the tunerview app installed on the fire tablet. The TSP1 tune is awesome.

 

[CVCTURBO]

You would still need a tuning device for your ECU in order to actually tune it. Aka Ktuner, Hondata, or Motec if your ballin.

Then a tuner can make custom tunes. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[theblackdogman]

You would still need a tuning device for your ECU in order to actually tune it. Aka Ktuner, Hondata, or Motec if your ballin.

Then a tuner can make custom tunes. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I always just assume people use KTuner. Good call.

 

[360glitch]

How much are you saving by purchasing this "no hardware" dyno tune?

Also, are you fine with being tied to them any time you ever need future help with the tune? No option to do anything yourself if you don't have the hardware.

 

[DmK]

As someone mention, a custom tune is always the best option. But the main reason why I got a V1.2 is to monitor all gauges to make sure that my car works properly and in case if something would go wrong to know about it early to take actions.

 

[cammyfive]

How much are you saving by purchasing this "no hardware" dyno tune?

Also, are you fine with being tied to them any time you ever need future help with the tune? No option to do anything yourself if you don't have the hardware.

That is a good point. I plan to keep this car for a year or a little more and the power mods I want to do I'll be doing all at the same time - intercooler/chargepipe, intake tube, tune. That's it.

My thinking is based on my experience with the BMW world where piggy back or canned tunes were seen as inferior and the best tunes for safety and smoothness were directly flashing the ECU. With the F30 3-series that I had, most people did go piggy back or canned tune because the only way to flash the ECU directly was to remove it from the car and open it up which, if you didn't live near a competent shop, was a huge headache. Luckily I had a well regarded BMW tuner in the town I lived in at the time.

I'm sure this is contrary to what many people here view, but I personally do not want to mess with a laptop attempting to flash my car only to have some freak issue trying to upload a tune as others have had. I'm not the type to drive around with a laptop in my passenger seat worried about monitoring a dozen things or constantly fiddling with various adjustment. I'm the guy that would rather just take it some place that knows what they're doing and have it done. My view is that it's like the Apple vs Windows/Android ecosystem. Having all Apple devices I have a consistent experience and it's generally a smooth experience. I know Windows and Android would allow me to adjust all of these different parameters and maybe get a bit more performance but I'll give that up for reliability and consistency.

I also like the idea of being able to communicate directly with the tuner himself and explain just that. The canned tunes and the maps I've read about seem to always for a higher number. As silly as it sounds to many I'm sure, I'd give up 10hp or 10 ft-lb here or there to have a smooth power curve and not worry about being on the edge of misfires or other issues. Maybe my thinking is wrong, but that was the conventional wisdom of the BMW world when it came to tuning F/I cars.

 

[fabrizzio71]

That is a good point. I plan to keep this car for a year or a little more and the power mods I want to do I'll be doing all at the same time - intercooler/chargepipe, intake tube, tune. That's it.

My thinking is based on my experience with the BMW world where piggy back or canned tunes were seen as inferior and the best tunes for safety and smoothness were directly flashing the ECU. With the F30 3-series that I had, most people did go piggy back or canned tune because the only way to flash the ECU directly was to remove it from the car and open it up which, if you didn't live near a competent shop, was a huge headache. Luckily I had a well regarded BMW tuner in the town I lived in at the time.

I'm sure this is contrary to what many people here view, but I personally do not want to mess with a laptop attempting to flash my car only to have some freak issue trying to upload a tune as others have had. I'm not the type to drive around with a laptop in my passenger seat worried about monitoring a dozen things or constantly fiddling with various adjustment. I'm the guy that would rather just take it some place that knows what they're doing and have it done. My view is that it's like the Apple vs Windows/Android ecosystem. Having all Apple devices I have a consistent experience and it's generally a smooth experience. I know Windows and Android would allow me to adjust all of these different parameters and maybe get a bit more performance but I'll give that up for reliability and consistency.

I also like the idea of being able to communicate directly with the tuner himself and explain just that. The canned tunes and the maps I've read about seem to always for a higher number. As silly as it sounds to many I'm sure, I'd give up 10hp or 10 ft-lb here or there to have a smooth power curve and not worry about being on the edge of misfires or other issues. Maybe my thinking is wrong, but that was the conventional wisdom of the BMW world when it came to tuning F/I cars.

Yeah, there is always a risk when altering ECU. When I first setup my flashpro to my car, I had to dig up my my old laptop with yards of extension cords as it doesn’t have a battery and a separate display as the screen is broken. However, that’s all you will ever need the computer for-to pair your device to your car’s computer. From there, upload the tunes to your device and you can flash tunes without the computer using the tunerview app on your head-unit. From there you can monitor live data while you drive-no need to have a computer or tablet in the car.

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