Current turbo state of the K20C2

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Jaybub

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Hello all. First post and new to the forum.

I'm thinking of picking up a 10th gen civic with the 2.0, solely for the purpose of installing a turbo. I've read through a bunch of the threads here attempting to research it and was surprised to see that either the community doesn't take very kindly to thoughts of throwing a turbo on the 2.0 or that the K20C2 just wasn't engineered for it. There seems to be talk of how it's untunable due to no pressure(?) sensor in the manifold? I also seen a post where a major engine aftermarket producer said they had no plans to support the K20C2. Granted, these were all posts from a year or so back.

I was surprised at the lack of turbo talk with this engine. I'm assuming it's been out for at least a good 4 years in its current iteration and still no mass sold turbo kit? From what I've briefly seen, it looks like there is ONE out from 27Won? I would think at this point, there would be several options. I mean, this is a Honda Civic engine; a car that has come close to possibly owning the aftermarket scene for years now. Does the K20C2 not share the beefed up internals of its previous iterations?

Or maybe this is the natural occurrence of events that usually follows when a new generation is released? Did the 8th gen civic not have an aftermarket turbo kit for its engines until five years after coming to market? Honest question.

I was really thinking of picking up a Nissan 370Z since aftermarket turbos and parts are commonplace, but this is a car that's been around for over 10 years. I got tired of watching DannyZ videos and the the 10th gen civic has really caught my eye. I'm new to Hondas so was sincerely wondering if there is something unique about the K20C2 or if this lack of turbo kit situation has all been repeated in the past.

Sorry for the long post. Appreciate your thoughts!
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charleswrivers

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The K20C2 is, to me, a rehash of the K20A3 for nearly 20 years ago... which was the base RSX engine and the 7th gen Si engine at the same time. It was... and still is... a solid engine. It neither has the displacement with moderate revving ability of the performance K24s or the high redline of the high end K20s (A2, Z1, Z3). I don't know of any breakdowns that really has dove into the C2s... but they do not share the internals of the K20C1... so it isn't just a CTR engine w/o a turbo and w/port injection waiting to get a turbo slapped on.

10+ years ago... if you had a base RSX with an A3 (C2 equivalent engine) and wanted power and wanted to do it using smart money... you ditched the A3 engine altogether and went with a K20A2... or did some mix of a K24 and a K20 head. This included if you wanted to go and add a turbo... as by the time you went to build up the A3... and choices of internals was lacking... you'd do better to just get the better engine that could handle the power. Sinking money to turbocharge a weaker, lower revving A3 and putting a hole through the block wasn't money well spent. There have been many flavors of great "K" engines... and I think the luke warm feeling some folks... and I have on the C2 engine is that it isn't the "great" engine of lore. It's a high compression refinement of the lower end K-series engine that was built with efficiency in mind... not power. Trying to squeeze more power out of it when there is already a factory turbo charged engine... even if it is effectively a beefed up Honda Fit engine... just isn't smart money.

I'd love to have seen Honda take the K24Z7 that's in the ILX and gained DI since it's use on the 9th gen Civic and a bump in compression to make it more efficient and make peak torque about a 1000 RPMs sooner and be repurposed as a choice for gen 10. Those engines took to being turbocharged or supercharged pretty well too... with companies making products for them. They took the weakest K they ever made... polished it... and that's what gen 10 got. It is a very, very good engine. It just shouldn't be taken as the really great performance variants that have come before it. The advice on ClubRSX for A3s I learned all those years ago I simply repeat because it's virtually the same engine: Not worth it. It wasn't worth it when there were more powerful, higher revving, stronger internal'ed engines available all over the place to do swaps. I think that advice is still very relevant… even with the C2 being a "new" engine. While it may seem foolish to buy a new car and remove it's new engine to swap out for an older performance K-engine... to me it seems worse to take that new K engine... dismiss it being the economy variant and leave it in there and sink money into it to make it more powerful.

The L15B7 Sis are good for around 240 WHP with a hot reflash (TSP). That's right around 100 whp more than a stock K20C2 makes... and it makes around double the peak torque. I'm personally not a fan of the L15B7... but it's cheap to make proven power.
Once you're off the reflashes and you start replacing the stock turbo or use ethanol... you get off the map a little with reliability... but there's some decent history there too now.
The C2 isn't a proven engine for modding… there's a one-off car that has a turbo... and if it's as similar to the A3 as it seems to be... there's piles of dead ones that can be read about over at ClubRSX that'd make it seem like a poor proposition. Whatever your decision... good luck! I'd compare the cost of cobbling together a car that's turbo'ed K20C2 #2 and what power you can expect to get... knowing there isn't a lot of data out there to back it up being a safe move vs getting a L15B7 that modding has become common place... OR(!) engine swapping one of the better K's in there that are plentiful as a possibly cheaper alternative that yield a more powerful engine with stronger internals from the start.
 
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Jaybub

Jaybub

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Charles, thank you for taking the time to write up that great explanation. I had no idea the C2 was considered an economy engine. I was drawn to it simply because it was a 2.0 and thought it might of had more potential than the turbo'd 1.5 {nO rePlaCeMeNT fOR diSplAcEMenT}. I definitely would not want to swap out an engine on a new car, let alone dump a bunch of money into a house built on top of a swamp.

This is a disappointment for me as I think this generation has some of the best potential for looks. I guess it's back to the drawing board. I keep thinking about the 370Z and how the stock VQ37VHR internals can get you up to around 500HP with a single turbo. Gas mileage wouldn't be so hot. I was hoping the Civic would be able to do something close to that, performance wise, but with better gas mileage when driven civilly. I really wanted the Civic to work as there are tons of Hondas where I live and lots of support when it comes to engine mod installs, tuning, etc. I don't thin so much for Nissan.

Looks like I have a bunch more research to do!

EDIT: Just took a look at the "10th Gen Civic 1/4 Mile Times" and wow, the L15B7 has some potential!
 
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charleswrivers

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Charles, thank you for taking the time to write up that great explanation. I had no idea the C2 was considered an economy engine. I was drawn to it simply because it was a 2.0 and thought it might of had more potential than the turbo'd 1.5 {nO rePlaCeMeNT fOR diSplAcEMenT}. I definitely would not want to swap out an engine on a new car, let alone dump a bunch of money into a house built on top of a swamp.

This is a disappointment for me as I think this generation has some of the best potential for looks. I guess it's back to the drawing board. I keep thinking about the 370Z and how the stock VQ37VHR internals can get you up to around 500HP with a single turbo. Gas mileage wouldn't be so hot. I was hoping the Civic would be able to do something close to that, performance wise, but with better gas mileage when driven civilly. I really wanted the Civic to work as there are tons of Hondas where I live and lots of support when it comes to engine mod installs, tuning, etc. I don't thin so much for Nissan.

Looks like I have a bunch more research to do!
I do want to give you the caveat that there's been very little done w/the C2. It could have some potential... but you'd be very off the beaten path and everything about the C2 points to it being a refresh of the K20A3. You can check them against each other and they're power/torque/curve/redline etc are all very, very similar. It did get a bump in compression ratio and it gets better fuel economy than the older cars... though this could be gearing/aero/weight as much as the CR.

Zs are a lot of fun... and I still have my 300zx. If number chasing is what you're after... a Civic, in any trim, probably isn't it. ~400-500 whp is about it... and as a FWD... it'd never put the power down well unless you're rolling at interstate speeds. My old 300zx has never been dynoed but I'd expect it makes something around 400 whp. When I jump from it to the Civic... while the Civic is an easier car to drive, it is comparatively quite slow even with it's ~237 whp reflash at a weight a few hundred lbs less than the Z. 370zs powertrain is unchanged since they came out in '09... and used examples are plentiful and relatively inexpensive. While paying for a twin turbo kit for it and the labor to install would be quite expensive... I bet you could find a good used example... and have the engine gone through and the turbos added and it be tuned for little more than a new non-CTR Civic would cost. I bought my Z... paying a premium for one with a straight body that was born a twin turbo and not a NA swap... and had my Z practically rebuilt from the ground up minus the engine itself which had good compression (cooling system completely replaced... new suspension all around... clutch... timing belt/water pump... turbos... boost controller... injectors... wiring... a million little things) for about what my Si cost. That was over 5 years ago... and I bet the newer VQ37VHR powered cars are a lot easier to work with than the old VG30DETTs. Those things are a gigantic PITA. With wider tires... better/newer suspension, probably a better weight distribution (the VGs were iron... VQs are aluminum) and likely electronic nannies to aid you in accelerating (the only thing my 300zx has is ABS... no launch anything... traction control... nothing) I'd imagine it'd be markedly faster for the same power.

My opinion is the Civic is a really good car for it's price point… and has some potential in modding. For the cars with the L15B7, it's pretty cheap (~$500) to get another 50 whp and make a good ride a bit snappier and more fun. Given the limitations of the FWD platform, if you're looking for a *fast* ride... I'd look elsewhere. Once you move away from the Civic being a slow car (comparatively) you can have fun driving fast... it starts to be out of it's element. There's a reason why production FWD cars have pretty much been stuck at ~300 hp while other platforms have gotten more powerful.

Anyways... that's my opinion. I also think getting a 8th/9th gen Si and making it a monster might be a good bang-for-the-buck proposition that has some history behind it to do good research. Cars are cheap... parts in junkyards plentiful if things go south... and aftermarket support there.
 


LilToTo17

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the biggest issue with turboing the k20c2 is the lack of way to correctly tune the car for boost on the factory ECU.
I mean no one likes a hack job of a tune lol. Even Ktuner said sure you could tune but it won't be tuned properly.
Honda Civic 10th gen Current turbo state of the K20C2 45654.PNG
 

LilToTo17

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judging by the amount of JB4s and VTA BOVs that are out there, i am not so sure
Ktuner themselves say it wouldn’t tune properly with their tuning system which op uses
 

Myx

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I mean no one likes a hack job of a tune lol. Even Ktuner said sure you could tune but it won't be tuned properly.

I'm ok with a hack job. Nothings perfect! As long as it runs ok, no problemo.
 


LilToTo17

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What's up lol? The bottom part of the comment you just posted isn't from me
 

dark_knight097

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What's up lol? The bottom part of the comment you just posted isn't from me
I'm guessing he quoted both to show that what you said in that comment wasn't entirely true. Some people are okay with it as long as it runs good
 
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Myx

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I'm guessing he quoted both to show that what you said in that comment wasn't entirely true. Some people are okay with it as long as it runs good

**BINGO**

I have been running 'hack jobs' (one for 10yrs and one for 20yrs), longer than some of perfectly tuned or even stock cars. It's not for everybody.
 

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**BINGO**

I have been running 'hack jobs' (one for 10yrs and one for 20yrs), longer than some of perfectly tuned or even stock cars. It's not for everybody.
well I mean if afr's are good lol. Ask OP to show some datalogs to see how it does under throttle. I mean showing that it does perform well under boost will give some relief for those other NA 2.0's who are looking to boost their base model civics. It can be something simple like this for people:
Honda Civic 10th gen Current turbo state of the K20C2 dfs.PNG
 
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LilToTo17

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Who said I'm ok with a hack job. Nothings perfect! As long as it runs ok, no problemo? I don't see that anywhere else?
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