CTR FlashPro tuning - dyno

Hondata

Hondata
Elite Sponsor
Joined
Nov 27, 2015
Threads
99
Messages
911
Reaction score
2,498
Location
Torrance California
Website
www.hondata.com
Vehicle(s)
23' Type R,22' Civic Si,18' Accord 2.0T,17' FK8
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
It is critical when on the dyno to have a lot of airflow over the intercooler. What we have seen with a number of dyno sessions is that without adequate air flow the intake air temperature will reach the point where more requested torque will result in a minimal power increase.

Look at the IATs and boost pressure over a run and the shape of the torque curve from the dyno. Symptoms are:
- torque peaks high and then tapers at high rpm
- IAT is more than 40F over ambient temperature
- boost is high (over 26 psi)

What is happening is that since the ECU is torque based as temperatures rise the ECU will target more boost. Since the turbo is at a point where efficiency is falling, more boost will give higher compressor discharge temperatures, and higher IATs. Higher boost will also give less ignition timing. Higher boost and higher temperatures will increase the change of getting knock, which will retard the ignition and decrease power for several seconds. None of this is good for power.

The good news is that you will not observe this behavior while driving as the air flow over the intercooler is much higher than with a fan on the dyno.

When tuning consider:
- more air flow
- limit peak torque using the maximum air flow table
- limit boost using the turbo maximum pressure ratio table (IAT)

As always on the dyno you would monitor lambda, fuel pump duty and knock.
Sponsored

 

fk8mike

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2017
Threads
1
Messages
699
Reaction score
545
Location
canada
Vehicle(s)
civic type r
Country flag
curious to see some result on meth
 
OP
OP
Hondata

Hondata

Hondata
Elite Sponsor
Joined
Nov 27, 2015
Threads
99
Messages
911
Reaction score
2,498
Location
Torrance California
Website
www.hondata.com
Vehicle(s)
23' Type R,22' Civic Si,18' Accord 2.0T,17' FK8
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
Here's some more analysis.

Honda Civic 10th gen CTR FlashPro tuning - dyno fk8-dyno-2


Here is a dyno run on our dyno, 91 octane fuel, 80 degrees ambient. Note the end IAT of 127F, ignition around 8 degrees on the top end and some knock retard.

Honda Civic 10th gen CTR FlashPro tuning - dyno fk8-dyno-1


Another run from the same vehicle. Ignition was reduced to reduce knock. The ECU increased boost to compensate for the lower efficiency from the reduced timing. IAT peaks at 130F at the end of the run. No knock retard. Top end ignition around 6-7 degrees. This made more power than the previous run. (For the record this vehicle knocked on the first run because it had a restrictive exhaust).

Now here is a dyno run from a customer.

Honda Civic 10th gen CTR FlashPro tuning - dyno fk8-dyno-ht-3


Ambient is 82F. Note the end IAT is 20 degrees higher and there is a lot of knock retard and the top end ignition is low. For this vehicle I would first increase the intercooler air flow and possibly reduce timing and air charge to get rid of the knock. But this might be tuning for the dyno and not the street conditions for the vehicle, so increasing air flow on the dyno would be a good first step.

These engines are very sensitive to ignition timing. The difference between 4 degrees and 8 degrees timing on the top end is around 20-25 hp.

Finally, you can't see if on the graphs but this ECU takes some time to run in closed loop after a reflash. It is in the tuning notes:
https://www.hondata.com/help/flashpro/fk2_fk2_notes.htm
You need to drive for 2 km and 2.5 minutes to get the ECU to run closed loop. You can do this on the dyno rollers / hubs.
 

ZdH

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2017
Threads
11
Messages
258
Reaction score
504
Location
Surprise, AZ
Vehicle(s)
ACURA TSX Superchrged, 2010 Honda Accord, 1999 Honda Accord
Country flag
Here's some more analysis.

fk8-dyno-2.png


Here is a dyno run on our dyno, 91 octane fuel, 80 degrees ambient. Note the end IAT of 127F, ignition around 8 degrees on the top end and some knock retard.

fk8-dyno-1.png


Another run from the same vehicle. Ignition was reduced to reduce knock. The ECU increased boost to compensate for the lower efficiency from the reduced timing. IAT peaks at 130F at the end of the run. No knock retard. Top end ignition around 6-7 degrees. This made more power than the previous run. (For the record this vehicle knocked on the first run because it had a restrictive exhaust).

Now here is a dyno run from a customer.

fk8-dyno-ht-3.png


Ambient is 82F. Note the end IAT is 20 degrees higher and there is a lot of knock retard and the top end ignition is low. For this vehicle I would first increase the intercooler air flow and possibly reduce timing and air charge to get rid of the knock. But this might be tuning for the dyno and not the street conditions for the vehicle, so increasing air flow on the dyno would be a good first step.

These engines are very sensitive to ignition timing. The difference between 4 degrees and 8 degrees timing on the top end is around 20-25 hp.

Finally, you can't see if on the graphs but this ECU takes some time to run in closed loop after a reflash. It is in the tuning notes:
https://www.hondata.com/help/flashpro/fk2_fk2_notes.htm
You need to drive for 2 km and 2.5 minutes to get the ECU to run closed loop. You can do this on the dyno rollers / hubs.
So I believe these are my runs, curious one of the data logs was on the street driving as well did you notice any differences than on the dyno?

Also might this suggest maybe the tune is aggressive for myself or others that might be say in AZ where heat is just constantly there? Love the feedback! Thanks for sharing!
 
OP
OP
Hondata

Hondata

Hondata
Elite Sponsor
Joined
Nov 27, 2015
Threads
99
Messages
911
Reaction score
2,498
Location
Torrance California
Website
www.hondata.com
Vehicle(s)
23' Type R,22' Civic Si,18' Accord 2.0T,17' FK8
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
Yes, the street run was cooler but still needed some tweaking. Normally the dyno is more load than the street, so if the dyno is good the street has some margin. For you I think I'd datalog the knock retard and try different gas because it shows more knock than I'd expect.
Sponsored

 


 


Top