Crash mitigation can be DANGEROUS if you're a spirited/aggressive driver.

[bcfmb]

The aggressive driver. The slow driver is of course an inarguable nuisance, but to suggest that nuisance forces another driver to be aggressive is insane. The only way that slow driver is posing any danger is if one automatically assumes that the other surrounding drivers are going to be jerks about it, which is an unfortunate truth in reality but still in no way the fault of the slow driver. There is always a choice whether to be aggressive or to apply the breaks and wait patiently for a safe opening to pass— ultimately only adding mere seconds to the total trip, if even anything at all, but that's really beside the point.

What's more, it's baffling that this sort of behavior is so easily rationalized when it comes to the roadways, considering it would be so obviously condemned in any other context. Would it be okay to aggressively tailgate or shove past someone if they were walking too slowly on a narrow sidewalk? Sure you might want to, but you hopefully wouldn't, because we live in a society where it's more appropriate to simply wait for enough room to go around in a way that isn't offensively rude. And that's at walking speeds, where there's near zero risk of a life-threatening injury. To draw another comparison, perhaps at the risk of some slight hyperbole (but not really), the idea that an annoyingly slow driver forces another to drive dangerously is pretty much the same as saying that an attractive woman wearing a short skirt forces a creep to grab her ass. No. Just no.

I was not implying the slow driver causes aggressive driving. Also, I think we have differing opinions on aggressive drivers. I mean aggressive as driving faster than the speed limit and passing cars. I drive aggressive at times, but I do not tailgate and cause danger to the cars around me. Those are the worst and most dangerous of drivers. I will wait for an opening and go around the car. Than again in NY traffic it's usually better to just keep it slow. But the LIE can be a fun drive later at night.

But the left lane is known as the fast lane and also drivers should pass on the left. When a driver chooses to cruise in the left lane it creates an unnecessary danger, when that driver could easily cruise in the middle lane. There are states with laws against staying in the left lane for this very reason. So I guess you could argue if its not against your states law, than feel free to drive how you like. I like to be courteous and I simple move out of the way when I just feel like cruising.

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[whaaaaa]

I was not implying the slow driver causes aggressive driving. Also, I think we have differing opinions on aggressive drivers. I mean aggressive as driving faster than the speed limit and passing cars. I drive aggressive at times, but I do not tailgate and cause danger to the cars around me. Those are the worst and most dangerous of drivers. I will wait for an opening and go around the car. Than again in NY traffic it's usually better to just keep it slow. But the LIE can be a fun drive later at night.

But the left lane is known as the fast lane and also drivers should pass on the left. When a driver chooses to cruise in the left lane it creates an unnecessary danger, when that driver could easily cruise in the middle lane. There are states with laws against staying in the left lane for this very reason. So I guess you could argue if its not against your states law, than feel free to drive how you like. I like to be courteous and I simple move out of the way when I just feel like cruising.

Ah yes, we were definitely using different definitions for 'aggressive.' And sorry if that came across as attacking you specifically or anything, I was just responding to the idea and can get a little carried away on this particular topic. I also live in NYC and usually cruise at around 68-70mph when safe to do so, easily passing people on the LIE, but will cruise for as long as it takes behind a slow driver until I have a way to pass cleanly without unnecessary risk.

100% true that the left lane is known as the fast lane, and that slower drivers could and should be driving in the middle lane. Specifically in NY, though, and correct me if I'm wrong, I don't believe that there is any law against cruising in the left lane provided it's a highway with more than two lanes in a given direction. On a two lane highway, that's a different story, and everyone needs to keep the left lane open for passing. However, in either case, I still think I disagree that the slower driver in the left lane is responsible for creating a danger. Yes, they are being an oblivious nuisance, and yes it aggravates me too, and yes they should absolutely move over if they're not passing anyone, but the situation only becomes an actual danger when other drivers lose patience and start getting crazy. The blame rests solely on the aggressor.

Plus, if we do try to attribute blame to the slow driver, where is the line drawn as to what's 'dangerously' slow? As I'm sure you know, you could be doing 75-80 in the left lane on the LIE, consistently passing those to your right, and some idiot will still act like you're in his way. Is that really not fast enough for the fast lane? What about 70? 65? Even 60 is 10mph above the speed limit. (Context for those reading and not from around here, NYC speed limit is capped at 50mph, and 55 in the surrounding suburbs.) That line is always going to be subject to opinion depending on who you ask. I would personally put it at anything less than 65, but that's just me. But regardless of anyone's opinion on that, I still can't place any blame on the slow guy for causing others to take dangerous actions. Sharing the road means that I have the right to get annoyed, but I do not have the right to be hostile.

 

[bcfmb]

Ah yes, we were definitely using different definitions for 'aggressive.' And sorry if that came across as attacking you specifically or anything, I was just responding to the idea and can get a little heated on this particular topic. I also live in NYC and usually cruise at around 68-70mph when safe to do so, easily passing people on the LIE, but will cruise for as long as it takes behind a slow driver until I have a way to pass cleanly without unnecessary risk.

100% true that the left lane is known as the fast lane, and that slower drivers could and should be driving in the middle lane. Specifically in NY, though, and correct me if I'm wrong, I don't believe that there is any law against cruising in the left lane provided it's a highway with more than two lanes in a given direction. On a two lane highway, that's a different story, and everyone needs to keep the left lane open for passing. However, in either case, I still think I disagree that the slower driver in the left lane is responsible for creating a danger. Yes, they are being an oblivious nuisance, and yes it aggravates me too, and yes they should absolutely move over if they're not passing anyone, but the situation only becomes an actual danger when other drivers lose patience and start getting crazy. The blame rests solely on the aggressor.

Plus, if we do try to attribute blame to the slow driver, where is the line drawn as to what's 'dangerously' slow? As I'm sure you know, you could be doing 75-80 in the left lane on the LIE, consistently passing those to your right, and some idiot will still act like you're in his way. Is that really not fast enough for the fast lane? What about 70? 65? Even 60 is 10mph above the speed limit. (Context for those reading and not from around here, NYC speed limit is capped at 50mph, and 55 in the surrounding suburbs.) That line is always going to be subject to opinion depending on who you ask. I would personally put it at anything less than 65, but that's just me. But regardless of anyone's opinion on that, I still can't place any blame on the slow guy for causing others to take dangerous actions. Sharing the road means that I have the right to get annoyed, but I do not have the right to be hostile.

No, I did not take it as attacking. I completely understand your point of views and if more people were able to think as logical the roads would be safer. And I am the same, I will just cruise. As a child (17-21) I use to have unnecessary road rage, than realized I am the idiot for getting upset at people following the law.

You are correct, it is unfair and wrong to place blame on the driver who is actually following the laws of the road. And being an oblivious nuisance is not against the law but it can increase certain risks. Technically someone walking across the street has the right of way, but blindly walking across that street is not an intelligent idea. Not everyone follows the rules. And rather than trust those around you, some common sense would suggest avoiding that situation.

Which than leads to what is too slow. And unfortunately, there is no answer.And my judgement on people driving to slowly in the left lane is somewhat specific. If its a slow day on the road, than the people driving faster can simply pass. It is the midday driver, who cruises at 50-55mph, and forces multiple cars to pass them. If the middle lane is open, simply move over.

 

[dick w]

Whats wrose, the aggressive driver or the driver who insist on driving the speed limit in the left lane?

100% true that the left lane is known as the fast lane, and that slower drivers could and should be driving in the middle lane.

Practically I agree. And I've certainly gotten annoyed when I wanted to drive fast by somebody driving slow in the left lane. But occasionally we should remember that the speed limit is still the legal limit, generally set for engineered reasons. That you want to drive 15 or 30 over it does not give you a presumptive right to the fast lane just because somebody else is daring to driving at only the speed limit. No doubt to me who is being the bigger jerk in this scenario. Even if it's me.

 

[CivicTouring]

I was not implying the slow driver causes aggressive driving. Also, I think we have differing opinions on aggressive drivers. I mean aggressive as driving faster than the speed limit and passing cars. I drive aggressive at times, but I do not tailgate and cause danger to the cars around me. Those are the worst and most dangerous of drivers. I will wait for an opening and go around the car. Than again in NY traffic it's usually better to just keep it slow. But the LIE can be a fun drive later at night.

But the left lane is known as the fast lane and also drivers should pass on the left. When a driver chooses to cruise in the left lane it creates an unnecessary danger, when that driver could easily cruise in the middle lane. There are states with laws against staying in the left lane for this very reason. So I guess you could argue if its not against your states law, than feel free to drive how you like. I like to be courteous and I simple move out of the way when I just feel like cruising.

If everyone is doing the speed limit why would need to be speeding in the first place? This is one of the problems on our roads you have those who refuse to even reach the speed limit driving 10 to 20 MPH under the speed limit then you have those who exceed the speed limit by 10 to 20 MPH and more. If everyone would just do the damn speed limit traffic flow would be fine but both the under the speed limit and the over the speed limit groups completely screw up the flow of traffic.

I can't tell you how many times I have been passed by some idiot speeding only to see the same idiot five miles down the road at the same traffic light. So what did all that speeding get them in the end when we both ended up at the same intersection at the same time?

 

[whaaaaa]

If everyone is doing the speed limit why would need to be speeding in the first place? This is one of the problems on our roads you have those who refuse to even reach the speed limit driving 10 to 20 MPH under the speed limit then you have those who exceed the speed limit by 10 to 20 MPH and more. If everyone would just do the damn speed limit traffic flow would be fine but both the under the speed limit and the over the speed limit groups completely screw up the flow of traffic.

I can't tell you how many times I have been passed by some idiot speeding only to see the same idiot five miles down the road at the same traffic light. So what did all that speeding get them in the end when we both ended up at the same intersection at the same time?

I think there are some regional differences in philosophy owing to local speed limits. For example, there are areas where the speed limit is 70, 75, even 80. In that situation, I can imagine a more nervous driver going under the speed limit, and other drivers getting aggravated and screaming, "Just drive the posted limit!" And if the limit is already that high, speeding even faster is not as common or viewed as necessary.

In a municipality such as NYC, though, highway speed limits are a maximum of 50mph, however in areas where the highways are in decent condition (outer boroughs only, of course. never manhattan!) there is a sort of unspoken, unofficial speed limit of 65. Yes, that's a full 15mph over the posted limit, but I have never once heard of anyone getting pulled over for doing 65mph unless they were weaving aggressively in heavier traffic or tailgating or something. Above 65, you start taking your chances. So when people around here drive the posted limit of 50, a lot of drivers who would like to drive a safe, polite 65mph end up viewing this as much too slow and start getting impatient to pass.

(In the Long Island suburbs, those numbers shift upward by 5mph. 55 posted limit, 70 unofficial limit.)

 

[bcfmb]

If everyone is doing the speed limit why would need to be speeding in the first place? This is one of the problems on our roads you have those who refuse to even reach the speed limit driving 10 to 20 MPH under the speed limit then you have those who exceed the speed limit by 10 to 20 MPH and more. If everyone would just do the damn speed limit traffic flow would be fine but both the under the speed limit and the over the speed limit groups completely screw up the flow of traffic.

I can't tell you how many times I have been passed by some idiot speeding only to see the same idiot five miles down the road at the same traffic light. So what did all that speeding get them in the end when we both ended up at the same intersection at the same time?

Our discussion was geared towards highway/freeway type driving. Local roads would not fall under this discussion because the speed limit is set for pedestrian safety.

 

[epmes]

My collision mitigation almost caused a collision last weekend. I was driving down a long, straight road with good visibility when the car in front of me turned off the road to visit a roadside fruit stand. Speed limit was 45mph, but traffic on that road typically does about 50. A large SUV was barreling up behind, me so I waited for the driver ahead to clear the road, then gunned it to get back up to ~45mph from about 20. I was surprised when my Civic decided to slam suddenly on the brakes--overriding the gas pedal--presumably because it thought the car was still ahead of me. The SUV behind me almost hit me, and boy was the driver pissed.

I can't think of an effective workaround and don't want to disable it, as this feature would be useful in other situations. But in the meantime, I'm hoping that pointing to my car dashboard will take off as the international sign for "it's totally my car's fault! I wasn't braking!"

 

[pukemon]

Manuals ftw.

 

[mojo]

i am the aggressive driver... so all those post about the slow driver in the left lane let me give a clear point of view... if the speed limit is 50mph or 20mph and i choose to do 55-60 or 25-30 let me worry about my tix ..... if your doing exactly 50mph or 48 in the left lane your an asshole period go sit in the right lane and let ppl get buy... ppl that drive in the left absolutely push my button and make me drive harder to get around them.... also in nj on the nj tpke you can be pulled over and ticketed for staying in the left lane !!!!! they have signs that state left lane for passing if everyone followed that rule maybe there would be less aggression... idk why ppl find the need to just plant in any lane riding along side the person in the middle lane or making it so no one can pass i don't need anyone regulating my flow its annoying once u pass in the left its its clear move your ass back over so other ppl can get around you... ppl think they are doing 50 and because they have no pedal control the speed goes down when there is an upgrade on highway or they are fiddling with radio ... move over i just recorded my driving yesterday with prime examples of assholes not moving out the left lane when there was no one in my path i stayed out the left lane for majority of my trip and cruised @ 55-60 "not aggressive @ all"

 

[whaaaaa]

i am the aggressive driver... so all those post about the slow driver in the left lane let me give a clear point of view... if the speed limit is 50mph or 20mph and i choose to do 55-60 or 25-30 let me worry about my tix ..... if your doing exactly 50mph or 48 in the left lane your an asshole period go sit in the right lane and let ppl get buy... ppl that drive in the left absolutely push my button and make me drive harder to get around them.... also in nj on the nj tpke you can be pulled over and ticketed for staying in the left lane !!!!! they have signs that state left lane for passing if everyone followed that rule maybe there would be less aggression... idk why ppl find the need to just plant in any lane riding along side the person in the middle lane or making it so no one can pass i don't need anyone regulating my flow its annoying once u pass in the left its its clear move your ass back over so other ppl can get around you... ppl think they are doing 50 and because they have no pedal control the speed goes down when there is an upgrade on highway or they are fiddling with radio ... move over i just recorded my driving yesterday with prime examples of assholes not moving out the left lane when there was no one in my path i stayed out the left lane for majority of my trip and cruised @ 55-60 "not aggressive @ all"

 

[bhorn]

i am the aggressive driver... so all those post about the slow driver in the left lane let me give a clear point of view... if the speed limit is 50mph or 20mph and i choose to do 55-60 or 25-30 let me worry about my tix ..... if your doing exactly 50mph or 48 in the left lane your an asshole period go sit in the right lane and let ppl get buy... ppl that drive in the left absolutely push my button and make me drive harder to get around them.... also in nj on the nj tpke you can be pulled over and ticketed for staying in the left lane !!!!! they have signs that state left lane for passing if everyone followed that rule maybe there would be less aggression... idk why ppl find the need to just plant in any lane riding along side the person in the middle lane or making it so no one can pass i don't need anyone regulating my flow its annoying once u pass in the left its its clear move your ass back over so other ppl can get around you... ppl think they are doing 50 and because they have no pedal control the speed goes down when there is an upgrade on highway or they are fiddling with radio ... move over i just recorded my driving yesterday with prime examples of assholes not moving out the left lane when there was no one in my path i stayed out the left lane for majority of my trip and cruised @ 55-60 "not aggressive @ all"

I think you bought the wrong car. You should definitely be driving a BMW.

 

[Billy4202]

i am the aggressive driver... so all those post about the slow driver in the left lane let me give a clear point of view... if the speed limit is 50mph or 20mph and i choose to do 55-60 or 25-30 let me worry about my tix ..... if your doing exactly 50mph or 48 in the left lane your an asshole period go sit in the right lane and let ppl get buy... ppl that drive in the left absolutely push my button and make me drive harder to get around them.... also in nj on the nj tpke you can be pulled over and ticketed for staying in the left lane !!!!! they have signs that state left lane for passing if everyone followed that rule maybe there would be less aggression... idk why ppl find the need to just plant in any lane riding along side the person in the middle lane or making it so no one can pass i don't need anyone regulating my flow its annoying once u pass in the left its its clear move your ass back over so other ppl can get around you... ppl think they are doing 50 and because they have no pedal control the speed goes down when there is an upgrade on highway or they are fiddling with radio ... move over i just recorded my driving yesterday with prime examples of assholes not moving out the left lane when there was no one in my path i stayed out the left lane for majority of my trip and cruised @ 55-60 "not aggressive @ all"

Please don't have a coronary.

 

[theevanshow]

Woah.

 

[zx2down]

The more I read this thread the more it's making me not want to get the new Civic, is this just with HS or all new Civics?

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