Cooling

[ApexEight]

Has anyone completed an install of a radiator without an oil cooler?

Looking at the service manual, from what I can tell there seems to be an existing oil cooler running into the primary coolant loop.

Based on that, surely an overall cost effective option would be to start with the radiator - Higher capacity & exchange properties creating a larger "sink" as well as ditching the heat more quickly. As there's already an oil cooler in the loop, it'll bring down ECT, Oil Temps as well as gearbox temps.

An issue for OP, Being in the UK is that other than the Sirimoto (IIRC) offering, all of the other oil coolers require deletion of the ACC Radar - Something I'd really rather not do! (Being a UK owner myself)

Perhaps best call would be for a Radiator upgrade (2020? Koyo? Dream? (Dream radiator is only ~£450 IIRC)) and the 2020 Grille & Splitter. - Least intrusive, not too costly and a comprehensive improvement.

There is no factory oil cooler. There is a cooler for the transmission though.

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[Lust]

Has anyone completed an install of a radiator without an oil cooler?

Looking at the service manual, from what I can tell there seems to be an existing oil cooler running into the primary coolant loop.

Based on that, surely an overall cost effective option would be to start with the radiator - Higher capacity & exchange properties creating a larger "sink" as well as ditching the heat more quickly. As there's already an oil cooler in the loop, it'll bring down ECT, Oil Temps as well as gearbox temps.

An issue for OP, Being in the UK is that other than the Sirimoto (IIRC) offering, all of the other oil coolers require deletion of the ACC Radar - Something I'd really rather not do! (Being a UK owner myself)

Perhaps best call would be for a Radiator upgrade (2020? Koyo? Dream? (Dream radiator is only ~£450 IIRC)) and the 2020 Grille & Splitter. - Least intrusive, not too costly and a comprehensive improvement.

People have tried every radiator on the market and still over heat.

 

[dwag0588]

People have tried every radiator on the market and still over heat.

Do we actually have documentation of 2020 models overheating yet? I’m picking one up tomorrow, and while I won’t immediately be on the track, it is in my long term plans for the car.

 

[Lust]

Do we actually have documentation of 2020 models overheating yet? I’m picking one up tomorrow, and while I won’t immediately be on the track, it is in my long term plans for the car.

Yes the 2020 over heats. There wasn't any significant difference on track with the new 2020 updates.

 

[TypeSiR]

Honda will address the well-known overheating issue on the 2020 model by fitting the car with a even larger grille on the 2022 refresh. It’s currently being tested in Germany for its effectiveness.

 

[dwag0588]

Yes the 2020 over heats. There wasn't any significant difference on track with the new 2020 updates.

Again. This is not documentation. Can you provide a link to anything supporting overheating on the track with 2020 cars? I ask because even the launch event for the 2020’s was supposed to be on a track in Georgia, but was cancelled due to COVID-19. Has anyone had a 2020 on track yet?

 

[Lust]

Again. This is not documentation. Can you provide a link to anything supporting overheating on the track with 2020 cars? I ask because even the launch event for the 2020’s was supposed to be on a track in Georgia, but was cancelled due to COVID-19. Has anyone had a 2020 on track yet?

I was on track last weekend with cars that had vented grills, 2020 radiators, and vented hoods. All over heated.....

 

[TypeSiR]

Again. This is not documentation. Can you provide a link to anything supporting overheating on the track with 2020 cars? I ask because even the launch event for the 2020’s was supposed to be on a track in Georgia, but was cancelled due to COVID-19. Has anyone had a 2020 on track yet?

What Lust said was documented earlier here:

https://www.civicx.com/forum/threads/koyorad-radiator-vs-spoon-vs-full-race.49387/page-3#post-809209

 

[ApexEight]

Honda will address the well-known overheating issue on the 2020 model by fitting the car with a even larger grille on the 2022 refresh. It’s currently being tested in Germany for its effectiveness.

Source?

 

[elmoTK]

I was on track last weekend with cars that had vented grills, 2020 radiators, and vented hoods. All over heated.....

The temps were in the 90°F or more range. However, my coworker was also there with some of his buddies in an Integra and an S2K and he stated they were also overheating. Both N/A and basic bolt ons. No FI.

 

[haltamer]

There is no factory oil cooler. There is a cooler for the transmission though.

Am I looking at the wrong block?- There lookks to be one, however ineffective!(Unless I've got a completely incorrect diagram ?)

@Lust , I'm trying to work back by drawing parallells to the FK2 Where possible - In European use, there are no reports of overheating coolant / oil temps that I can find (Oil gets a little warm, but not critically) - For the most part, differences are Coolant capacity - The FK2 System has an extra 1.9L or so, and Grille design - The opening on the FK2 is nice and large. Finally, underbonnet air volume - There's some space above the engine for air tto flow through freely, which I'd imagine helps prevent heatsoak.

Ergo henceforth and erstwhile, One would surmise that with increased grille airflow (To the volume of that of the FK2), and increased coolant volume (An extra 2L in the rad wouldn't go amiss!) it should be possible to attain similar performance to that of the FK2; Fine for european use! (You're on your own for the 30c death valley time attacks )

Next time we're able to have a meet I plan to draw some paralells with the Fk2 and see what's being done differently beyond the obvious

 

[elmoTK]

Am I looking at the wrong block?- There lookks to be one, however ineffective!(Unless I've got a completely incorrect diagram ?)

@Lust , I'm trying to work back by drawing parallells to the FK2 Where possible - In European use, there are no reports of overheating coolant / oil temps that I can find (Oil gets a little warm, but not critically) - For the most part, differences are Coolant capacity - The FK2 System has an extra 1.9L or so, and Grille design - The opening on the FK2 is nice and large. Finally, underbonnet air volume - There's some space above the engine for air tto flow through freely, which I'd imagine helps prevent heatsoak.

Ergo henceforth and erstwhile, One would surmise that with increased grille airflow (To the volume of that of the FK2), and increased coolant volume (An extra 2L in the rad wouldn't go amiss!) it should be possible to attain similar performance to that of the FK2; Fine for european use! (You're on your own for the 30c death valley time attacks )

Next time we're able to have a meet I plan to draw some paralells with the Fk2 and see what's being done differently beyond the obvious

It's not much of a cooler. It's attached to the water passage by the waterpump.

 

[haltamer]

It's not much of a cooler. It's attached to the water passage by the waterpump.

Cheers, that's a nicer diagram!

Not too large as you say. I'll see what I can find on the FK2 block - I imagine there is a similar fitting; If so, it would imply the "primary" issue lies with heat rejection of the primary radiator / coolant system rather than oil cooling itself.

 

[ApexEight]

Did not know that^ was a thing. Thought it was what I've circled in red here, the transmission fluid cooler.

Also, I'm surprised that reports of FK2s overheating aren't easily found. I'm not sure of the differences between the two K20C1s, if any, but I believe the main issue on the FK8 is the stock turbo paired with the inherent headifold design. Yes, greater air flow in and out, as well as increased water and oil cooling help, but you'll always be battling the fact that the small, stock turbocharger has a lot of backpressure which in turn generates a lot of heat which is then transferred to the oil and water running through the turbo oil lines, turbo water lines, and the water jackets of the cylinder head due to the aforementioned super hot turbo being bolted directly to it. As illogical as it may seem, big aftermarket turbos can help.

Regardless, most will stay with the stock turbo. Lust is pretty much doing the most you'd want to do on street car in terms of cooling mods.

Also, I think it's really important to take an honest look at how you're using the car and in what conditions. I know that I won't be like Lust and other Cali track CTR guys who are frequently pushing their cars hard on hot track days with extra power. Those guys need the serious cooling mods. If you're not going to the track that frequently, in not super hot conditions, and with stock power, then you really don't need to go all out with cooling mods. Yes, even you can still overheat, but I don't think spending the time/money/energy to fully solve that issue is worth it if you aren't really tracking that often. Hope that makes sense.

 

[elmoTK]

Cheers, that's a nicer diagram!

Not too large as you say. I'll see what I can find on the FK2 block - I imagine there is a similar fitting; If so, it would imply the "primary" issue lies with heat rejection of the primary radiator / coolant system rather than oil cooling itself.

I would say there are no FK2's here in the US tracking our style of tracks. Lots of short acceleration and braking. Speeds that don't last very long over 100mph = less air flow time. Likewise the engineers may never have overheated while testing the FK8 in Europe. Longer tracks. Speeds are higher for longer. Bring an FK2 here to the states and drive our tracks and it will probably overheat as well. It is the same motor. If anything, Honda would add improvements to the motor and chassis. Not regress.

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