Considering trading for an Accord Sport 2.0T 10AT

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zroger73

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OK. I am officially jealous. That is my favorite Mazda color too. Funny side-note. When I was much younger we hung out on Mulholland Drive, and got to chat with Bob Hall of Miata game.
Now, I'm jealous! I've networked with many journalists, but never the father of the Miata! :)
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xbbnx

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@zroger73, it's been a couple of months now since you've had your Miata, can you tell us how that experience has been and how it compares to your experience with owning the Si? Do you miss the Si, or is the Miata that much better?
 
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zroger73

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@zroger73, it's been a couple of months now since you've had your Miata, can you tell us how that experience has been and how it compares to your experience with owning the Si? Do you miss the Si, or is the Miata that much better?
I've had the Miata for almost four months now and just passed 1,100 miles (it's a weekend toy). The more I drive it, the more I enjoy it. The Miata feels more special than the Si because there's nothing else quite like it except for the BMW Z4, but it's twice the price and there's not a big difference in performance.

Since my last update:

1. I initially stated the Miata was difficult to get in and out of, but I've learned to hold the steering wheel with my right hand while getting in so that I don't fall into the vehicle. It's becoming second nature and not as challenging.

2. Dealers want $500 to add Android Auto and Apple CarPlay support. I installed the factory accessory myself for less than $170 and it works really well. I also updated the infotainment software to fix a couple of minor bugs. One of the few changes to the 2020 Miata is that AA/ACP now come from the factory.

You really can't go wrong with any year of Miata going back to 1990. The 2019-2020 is without a doubt the most refined, powerful, and capable Miata yet, though. They're all incredibly reliable, easy to work on, and inexpensive to maintain. Consumer Reports recently rated the Miata as the most reliable automobile you can buy. Period. About the only weakness is the manual transmission in early 4th generation models (2016-) - primarily when the vehicles are used hard in autocross and racing. So far, Mazda has replaced them even on vehicles that they know were raced and have been modified. In fact, Mazda sent an email to dealers at one point advising them not to deny warranty coverage on vehicles used for racing. That's a very different attitude than Honda.

I'm less thrilled with my 2019 Ridgeline RTL-E, though. Last Friday at a year old and 14,000 miles, the transmission failed and is currently being replaced. I'm in a new CR-V LX AWD as a loaner. Despite being a base model, it's quite comfortable, easy to drive, and has everything you need and nothing that you don't.

Do I miss the Si? Yes - I'm a car nut and I want one of everything. Choosing between an Si and a Miata would come down to my primary use. As a daily driver where I needed to occasionally have two or three passengers, the Si would be the obvious choice. As a second vehicle or if I could work around having more than one passenger, "Miata is always the answer".
 

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I'm less thrilled with my 2019 Ridgeline RTL-E, though. Last Friday at a year old and 14,000 miles, the transmission failed and is currently being replaced.
The transmission failed at 14K????? Is that the same ZF-9 as found in the Pilot/TLX/MDX or is that the older 6 speed unit?
 


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The Si is a great Daily Driver. My wife uses ours to get to work, and it is our go-to-church vehicle. It’s a fun car, but I too am looking at a Miata as a weekend drive toy (I bike to work during the week).

Im babysitting my son’s 2002 Miata SE, and it’s given me the bug for a late middle-life crisis toy. It’s a fun car, but I can’t in good conscience drive an 18-year old car really hard. I should get a used 2018 Miata Club, but I really want that 2019 motor - so I’m going to hold off another 12 months and hopefully used prices will drop another $5,000.

A Miata is a great second car - but unless you are really young, or retired, it would be a tough only car. With all that said - the Si is fun, but you never really realize how HUGE it is until you drive a Miata that is almost 800 pounds lighter.
 
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zroger73

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The transmission failed at 14K????? Is that the same ZF-9 as found in the Pilot/TLX/MDX or is that the older 6 speed unit?
It's the older 6-speed. The Ridgeline didn't move to the ZF 9HP until the 2020 model year.

https://www.ridgelineownersclub.com...ssion-replacement-at-14k-due-to-whine.221224/

...the Si is fun, but you never really realize how HUGE it is until you drive a Miata that is almost 800 pounds lighter.
Indeed! Haha! The Si is as big as many mid-size family sedans. The Miata is nearly two-and-a-half feet shorter!
 
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... I should get a used 2018 Miata Club, but I really want that 2019 motor - so I’m going to hold off another 12 months and hopefully used prices will drop another $5,000.

A Miata is a great second car - but unless you are really young, or retired, it would be a tough only car. With all that said - the Si is fun, but you never really realize how HUGE it is until you drive a Miata that is almost 800 pounds lighter.
'16 - '18 ND1s are cheap. But a '19 with the GT-S package (LSD, shock tower bar) is sweet! Yeah, It'll probably drop another 3 to 5k come next winter (best time to buy); they depreciate quite a bit in the first three years. Super reliable and cheap to maintain and insure.
 
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I really enjoyed my seat time in the Miata as well. Have nothing much to add beyond what zroger73 mentioned. Though I will say that the torque deficit is noticeable despite the weight delta - especially if running a mild tune in the Si.

The one thing I've noticed in the Civic as you approach 36K+ is that the bushings wear down very quickly. Lane changes and small pavement deviations are much more noticeable - even on newer tires.

I would love to have a Miata as a 2nd car. But for now, we're focused on replacing the wife's car with a newer Accord 6MT for our growing family. The fact that Honda still makes a mid-sized 6MT is a huge draw for us.
 

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The one thing I've noticed in the Civic as you approach 36K+ is that the bushings wear down very quickly. Lane changes and small pavement deviations are much more noticeable - even on newer tires.
This is true. I should also add that within the past month or so I have started to hear suspension creak in the rear left whenever I exit the vehicle (don't hear it during driving or ingress, only egress), I suspect one of my bushings is begining to wear. Funny thing is I am only at 28,000 miles. :dunno:
 


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I have been in the same boat. As I am driving more and growing long in the tooth I feel as though the 2.0 Accord offers all the power/ cool of the Si and Type R while having the adult feel.

Couple locally used with like 300 miles for under 28K...
 

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I have been in the same boat. As I am driving more and growing long in the tooth I feel as though the 2.0 Accord offers all the power/ cool of the Si and Type R while having the adult feel.

Couple locally used with like 300 miles for under 28K...
It won’t have the handling, but it definitely has the power. It’s also far more comfortable.
 
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zroger73

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It won’t have the handling, but it definitely has the power. It’s also far more comfortable.
The Civic Si may have better handling feel, but when it comes to actual performance numbers there's virtually no difference according to Car and Driver instrumented testing. The Accord also stops faster.

2018 Accord Sport 2.0T 6MT
Zero to 60 mph: 6.1 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 15.3 sec
Zero to 120 mph: 21.8 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 7.0 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 10.8 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 7.6 sec
Standing ÂĽ-mile: 14.7 sec @ 98 mph
Top speed (gov limited): 125 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 164 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad*: 0.87 g
*stability-control-inhibited

2017 Civic Si sedan
Zero to 60 mph: 6.7 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 16.6 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 33.9 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 7.7 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 13.3 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 8.9 sec
Standing ÂĽ-mile: 15.0 sec @ 95 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 137 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 176 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.88 g
 

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The Civic Si may have better handling feel, but when it comes to actual performance numbers there's virtually no difference according to Car and Driver instrumented testing. The Accord also stops faster.

2018 Accord Sport 2.0T 6MT
Zero to 60 mph: 6.1 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 15.3 sec
Zero to 120 mph: 21.8 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 7.0 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 10.8 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 7.6 sec
Standing ÂĽ-mile: 14.7 sec @ 98 mph
Top speed (gov limited): 125 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 164 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad*: 0.87 g
*stability-control-inhibited

2017 Civic Si sedan
Zero to 60 mph: 6.7 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 16.6 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 33.9 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 7.7 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 13.3 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 8.9 sec
Standing ÂĽ-mile: 15.0 sec @ 95 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 137 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 176 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.88 g
To be fair, those Si numbers are with the All Seasons, which are below average at best. An Si should never come equipped with rubbers like that. These are the Si Sedan numbers with the Summer rubber. (Si is left, GTI is right)

Honda Civic 10th gen Considering trading for an Accord Sport 2.0T 10AT Screenshot_2019-07-23-15-45-01
 

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The Civic Si may have better handling feel, but when it comes to actual performance numbers there's virtually no difference according to Car and Driver instrumented testing. The Accord also stops faster.

2018 Accord Sport 2.0T 6MT
Zero to 60 mph: 6.1 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 15.3 sec
Zero to 120 mph: 21.8 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 7.0 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 10.8 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 7.6 sec
Standing ÂĽ-mile: 14.7 sec @ 98 mph
Top speed (gov limited): 125 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 164 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad*: 0.87 g
*stability-control-inhibited

2017 Civic Si sedan
Zero to 60 mph: 6.7 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 16.6 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 33.9 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 7.7 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 13.3 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 8.9 sec
Standing ÂĽ-mile: 15.0 sec @ 95 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 137 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 176 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.88 g
To be fair, roadholding is a small component of the total handling equation. As I mentioned earlier, the LSD provides better overall grip/traction during corner exit (most notably). And the results begin to show in more extreme comparisons such as C&D's Lightning Lap:

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a23319884/lightning-lap-times-historical-data/

Even on All-Seasons, the Si's mannerisms under extreme cornering are more predictable - thanks in part to its enhanced AHA in Sport Mode, tighter steering ratio, beefier jounce bumpers, and more heavily weighted feedback.

I suspect the Accord's ability to stop faster has more to do with the pad material chosen by Honda. Great for initial bite - not so much for fade resistance. I noticed that C&D went through a full set of front pads after a mere 10 laps at VIS.
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