Comparison of "Base" 1.5T and "Si" 1.5T Connecting Rods

dallasjhawk

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Honda Civic 10th gen Comparison of "Base" 1.5T and "Si" 1.5T Connecting Rods upload_2018-11-8_13-48-39
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Myx

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**Back from the Dead**

What is the lightest and hardest connecting rod that can be fitted in these engines? Unfortunately, can't find weight info between the Non-Si and Si connecting rods. Currently looking!

HondaPartsNetwork not showing the Si and Non-Si connecting rods are interchangeable either for some reason.
 
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arnoldo

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Another mystery is the curious case of bending connecting rod that hit many tuned Civic 1.5T CVT in my country, Indonesia. I never read a member from Civic X forum experience bend connecting rod from 21 PSI boost or TSP Stage 1 Non SI (max boost of 23 PSI).

Like I often mentioned in different thread and over private message, connecting rod are bent when the boost is increased higher than 20 PSI (21 PSI and up). Strangely the bent rod happen randomly so 1 Civic tuned with higher than 21 PSI and no problem with the rod and CVT but there are others with bent rod. This happens not only to the hatchback model but also sedan.

Maybe I just need to replace my connecting rod, piston, and turbo with CR-V parts to get Civic SI performance.

Before aynone ask, Civic SI is not available in my country and I cannot afford Type-R. :)
 

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Arnoldo, you always mention about this happening so often in your country. Well, there's something to consider.

All these cases of bent rods you speak of might be from cars that were abused. In other words, folks may say "I was just driving normally at 30 mph and it just threw a rod"! But, they may not be being fully truthful. They may have "forgot" to mention how they were constantly brake launching or constantly driving it like a race car. That type of use could weaken rods over time.

The reason I say this is the base 1.5T engine is only built in a few places. Matter of fact many of the US purchased hatches have engines built in Thailand.
 
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arnoldo

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All these cases of bent rods you speak of might be from cars that were abused. In other words, folks may say "I was just driving normally at 30 mph and it just threw a rod". But they may not be mentioning how they were constantly trying to brake launch or constantly driving it like a race car. That type of use will weaken rods over time.
Sorry, I have to say no. These cars are not abused as in constantly trying to brake launch or constantly driving like a race car. Brake launch will break CVT but not bending the rod. I know it happened to 1 car and the owner did brake launch often.

You cannot find a place to drive any car like a race car in the city where I live unless nowadays during COVID-19 semi lockdown. During normal days, you can olny drive within the speed of 80-100 mph between 01:00 and before 6:00 AM in the morning at certain highways, not all.

There is no CVT damaged though. Those cars with bend rod has no CVT issue or indication of CVT problems.

All known tuners in my country know this issue and recommend not to push the car beyond KTuner or Hondata basemap. In fact, they retarded timing a bit in 21 PSI KTuner option. The tuners will only do push beyond 21 PSI if the customer demand it.

You can rarely find tuned Civic 1.5T CVT goes beyond 240-ish BHP even with PRL Downpipe, PRL Cobra CAI, and PRL intercooler installed, if the owner did not specifically tell the tuner to go for the max boost the turbo & CVT could take.

TSP Stage-1 for non-si will give 252 BHP.
 
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Myx

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Sorry, I have to say no. These cars are not abused as in constantly trying to brake launch or constantly driving like a race car. Brake launch will break CVT but not bending the rod. I know it happened to 1 car and the owner did brake launch often.

You cannot find a place to drive any car like a race car in the city where I live unless nowadays during COVID-19 semi lockdown. During normal days, you can olny drive within the speed of 80-100 mph between 01:00 and before 6:00 AM in the morning at certain highways, not all.

There is no CVT damaged though. Those cars with bend rod has no CVT issue or indication of CVT problems.

All known tuners in my country know this issue and recommend not to push the car beyond KTuner or Hondata basemap. In fact, they retarded timing a bit in 21 PSI KTuner option. The tuners will only do push beyond 21 PSI if the customer demand it.

You can rarely find tuned Civic 1.5T CVT goes beyond 240-ish BHP even with PRL Downpipe, PRL Cobra CAI, and PRL intercooler installed, if the owner did not specifically tell the tuner to go for the max boost the turbo & CVT could take.

TSP Stage-1 for non-si will give 252 BHP.
Perhaps this base guideline is what most people should shoot for.
 

gtman

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Sorry, I have to say no. These cars are not abused as in constantly trying to brake launch or constantly driving like a race car. Brake launch will break CVT but not bending the rod. I know it happened to 1 car and the owner did brake launch often.

You cannot find a place to drive any car like a race car in the city where I live unless nowadays during COVID-19 semi lockdown. During normal days, you can olny drive within the speed of 80-100 mph between 01:00 and before 6:00 AM in the morning at certain highways, not all.

There is no CVT damaged though. Those cars with bend rod has no CVT issue or indication of CVT problems.

All known tuners in my country know this issue and recommend not to push the car beyond KTuner or Hondata basemap. In fact, they retarded timing a bit in 21 PSI KTuner option. The tuners will only do push beyond 21 PSI if the customer demand it.

You can rarely find tuned Civic 1.5T CVT goes beyond 240-ish BHP even with PRL Downpipe, PRL Cobra CAI, and PRL intercooler installed, if the owner did not specifically tell the tuner to go for the max boost the turbo & CVT could take.

TSP Stage-1 for non-si will give 252 BHP.
If that's the case and similarly tuned cars in Indonesia are failing but not in the US, I guess you need to find out, environmentally, what the difference is. You say with assurity there was no abuse involved yet the tuning reliability survey I run shows base and TSP tuned cars as amazingly reliable. The only failures documented in the survey were from abuse.

Has JR or Derek chimed in about this Indonesia versus US engine difference? Something simply doesn't add up. If the engines are the same and you say zero abuse, what's the cause? Right now the only environmental difference I can think of is Jakarta's oppressive year round heat and humidity.

I've looked at nearly every documented case of blown engines here at CivicX... Si and non-Si. Push comes to shove after all was said and done, virtually all the owners admitted some sort of abuse. Whether it was adding bolt ons and not getting a proper tune or not monitoring fuel trims or flat out driving like a maniac.

Good luck on your research into this.
 
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kytos

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The only 1.5 blown in my country had an aftermarket clutch, downpipe, antilag and was abused in a daily basis even with the engine not fully warm. The engine threw a rod in a relaxed drive way home.
 

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The only 1.5 blown in my country had an aftermarket clutch, downpipe, antilag and was abused in a daily basis even with the engine not fully warm. The engine threw a rod in a relaxed drive way home.
And that's pretty much exactly how it is in the US. Regular abuse, antilag, not monitoring parameters after adding bolt-ons etc. all lead up to the failures.

The common denominator seems to be people adding bolt ons and trying to eek out the most power (combined with some abuse).
 
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arnoldo

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If that's the case and similarly tuned cars in Indonesia are failing but not in the US, I guess you need to find out, environmentally, what the difference is. You say with assurity there was no abuse involved yet the tuning reliability survey I run shows base and TSP tuned cars as amazingly reliable. The only failures documented in the survey were from abuse.

Has JR or Derek chimed in about this Indonesia versus US engine difference? Something simply doesn't add up. If the engines are the same and you say zero abuse, what's the cause? Right now the only environmental difference I can think of is Jakarta's oppressive year round heat and humidity.

I've looked at nearly every documented case of blown engines here at CivicX... Si and non-Si. Push comes to shove after all was said and done, virtually all the owners admitted some sort of abuse. Whether it was adding bolt ons and not getting a proper tune or not monitoring fuel trims or flat out driving like a maniac.

Good luck on your research into this.
Don't get me wrong. I don't suspect the tools (KTuner/Hondata/piggyback, etc.).

Honda may use different connecting rod for cars in Indonesia, which is weird if this were true, but this could happen.

Secondly, environment could be the caused if not the main cause because our tropic climate comes with high temperature and high humidity. If this is the case, even base calibration of any platform without adjustment to reduce engine load and heat could be dangerous.

There is no KTuner dealer selling KTuner device but we do have KTuner dealer flash. Hondata dealer sold only Flashpro but no dealer flash only service. Every time the "dealers" flash a calibration, the dealer flash basemap calibration and make adjustment to the ignition reducing load with the hope to prevent conrod issue.

The reason I revert back to basemap calibration with my own customization because I need to find a balance calibration that gives me good driving experience without breaking the engine. I almost get there and only need a few tweaks to reduce knock control after 3 WOT runs. Hopefully, Civic X forum member willing to provide input so the calibration can be finished before COVID-19 semi-lockdown restriction is relaxed because this is the only time I can do road test.

I also posted my datalog in the topic regarding intercooler heatsoak and I did find the stock intercooler is good for basemap calibration in US or other colder climate but not in climate similar to Indonesia. We might even need to change both radiator and intercooler in order to get sufficient cooling.

kytos said:
The only 1.5 blown in my country had an aftermarket clutch, downpipe, antilag and was abused in a daily basis even with the engine not fully warm. The engine threw a rod in a relaxed drive way home.
No aftermarket clutch because there is no manual Civic in Indonesia. Tuners in Indonesia are conservative when they flash daily driver. From my experience, they only thick improve throttle response, and improve boost.

The third possibility and this will be very difficult to trace is the owner make changes to the calibration without informing tuners/ workshops.

We don't have KTuner dealer in Indonesia but many purchase KTuner device from neighboring country (Singapore, Malaysia, etc.), and Hondata Flashpro owners definitely has the higher potential of doing self-adjustment because we own the device.

I do make adjustment to Hondata +6 PSI basemap calibration but I don't increase boost or make adjustment to ignition.
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