Clutch Slippage questions

T00fair

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So I've read a lot about the new 10th gen Si clutch not being so great and i just wanted a bit of clarification from my own experiences. I've tested driving at like 3-4k rpms in first gear and I have stomped on the gas and the result is me having wheel slippage at around 20mph. Now this is where i need the clarification. At that point is the torque not at it's highest point? In order to get the wheels to spin at 20mph. So what my question is, if the clutch was going to slip, would it not be slipping at this point? My civic is bone stock and i know a lot of the complaints are coming from people who have tuned their cars, even in stage 1, but i've also read people on stock settings getting slippage at like 3-4k rpms because they were accelerating onto the highway and i feel like my scenario is much more taxing on the clutch than the stores I've heard that have caused slipping. Also my car has 13k miles on. Thanks for any insight
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The chances of a relatively new clutch slipping with no modifications is extremely rare. Some people have reportedly had that, but it is hard to tell fact from fiction. The car, in stock form, makes all of it's torque from about 2100rpm-5000rpm, and then it drops off. As you can see, max HP isn't until about 5700rpm. If you go WOT in the lower part of that torque range, you are putting more strain on the clutch, since it requires greater effort to increase speed, as the horsepower isn't as available than if you are in a higher RPM. Put simply, torque gets you moving, horsepower keeps you moving. So if you need to use more torque to get moving when the horsepower isn't their to sustain it, it is more of a strain on the clutch.

That being said, there are plenty of us that run KTuner with base tunes, and have no slippage on the stock clutch. It is all in how you drive it. If you do WOT launches, and lug your engine in higher gears, you will prematurely wear your clutch.

Honda Civic 10th gen Clutch Slippage questions upload_2018-10-9_14-16-55
 
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ebatr24

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So I've read a lot about the new 10th gen Si clutch not being so great and i just wanted a bit of clarification from my own experiences. I've tested driving at like 3-4k rpms in first gear and I have stomped on the gas and the result is me having wheel slippage at around 20mph. Now this is where i need the clarification. At that point is the torque not at it's highest point? In order to get the wheels to spin at 20mph. So what my question is, if the clutch was going to slip, would it not be slipping at this point? My civic is bone stock and i know a lot of the complaints are coming from people who have tuned their cars, even in stage 1, but i've also read people on stock settings getting slippage at like 3-4k rpms because they were accelerating onto the highway and i feel like my scenario is much more taxing on the clutch than the stores I've heard that have caused slipping. Also my car has 13k miles on. Thanks for any insight
Slippage happens mostly from going WOT(Wide open throttle) in 4th or above while at low RPMS like 3000 or below. Driving like this is what damages the clutch, and not typically 1st, 2nd or 3rd. One thing to note is that if you are highly modified or tune, 3rd could also start to cause slipping. Think about it like a mountain bike, how hard it is to pedal in the higher gears meant for speed. These gears carry a lot of resistance so you are stressing the clutch because it has more load with full torque. In 1st gear or 2nd, the gears are fairly lighter so even though the torque is still high it is not as hard to move those gears. If you want the stock clutch to last while tuned or modded, rev out the car instead of trying to go WOT in the higher gears to pass people or do a pull. Ironically, drive the car like an old Honda where they have no torque so you down shift to pick up speed lol. Just keep in mind that eventually the clutch will still give out as you start to make more and more torque when tuning the car for more power.
 

Speedy02

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You could tune your torque curve also in hondata or ktuner....ive tried this and feels almost like a all motor car.
 

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I'm at 6200 miles and my clutch slips pretty bad. Running KTuner 23 psi and Cobra intake. Of course if I drive gently it's fine. But if I actually try to utilize all that midrange torque, it's very likely to slip.
 


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The chances of a relatively new clutch slipping with no modifications is extremely rare. Some people have reportedly had that, but it is hard to tell fact from fiction. The car, in stock form, makes all of it's torque from about 2100rpm-5000rpm, and then it drops off. As you can see, max HP isn't until about 5700rpm. If you go WOT in the lower part of that torque range, you are putting more strain on the clutch, since it requires greater effort to increase speed, as the horsepower isn't as available than if you are in a higher RPM. Put simply, torque gets you moving, horsepower keeps you moving. So if you need to use more torque to get moving when the horsepower isn't their to sustain it, it is more of a strain on the clutch.

That being said, there are plenty of us that run KTuner with base tunes, and have no slippage on the stock clutch. It is all in how you drive it. If you do WOT launches, and lug your engine in higher gears, you will prematurely wear your clutch.
So, if you Mod your car to get more power .. ie More than the OEM clutch can handle, sooner or later you will need a new clutch, and when you do, you put in a clutch that is better matched to support the higher power.

Seems simple enough to me. Why would Honda Over-spec the OEM Clutch and push up the price of all cars of a given model, just "in case" a few wanted to push more power.

Accept the fact that Modding = $$$$$s, and you have the option to do it or not.
 

ebatr24

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So, if you Mod your car to get more power .. ie More than the OEM clutch can handle, sooner or later you will need a new clutch, and when you do, you put in a clutch that is better matched to support the higher power.

Seems simple enough to me. Why would Honda Over-spec the OEM Clutch and push up the price of all cars of a given model, just "in case" a few wanted to push more power.

Accept the fact that Modding = $$$$$s, and you have the option to do it or not.
FYI there has been people who had their clutch slip on a stock vehicle by simply running premium fuel. Lugging the car in 4th, 5th and 6th is more detrimental than on previous Hondas because of the torque this motor makes. Honda under spec'd the clutch pretty severely as the Type R has no problems handling it's stock power.
 

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FYI there has been people who had their clutch slip on a stock vehicle by simply running premium fuel. Lugging the car in 4th, 5th and 6th is more detrimental than on previous Hondas because of the torque this motor makes. Honda under spec'd the clutch pretty severely as the Type R has no problems handling it's stock power.
I’m not 100% sold on this. I think that the stock clutch handles stock power, if properly broken in. The people who drive the car like a maniac right off the lot seem to have stock clutch issues with stock power. Honda plainly said that the engine was detuned for longevity, ie longevity of the clutch most likely. I have 8000 miles on my stock clutch, and I’ve been running Ktuner 19.5/23. I don’t beat on my car, but I don’t baby it either. Drive it like you are supposed to, and the stock clutch will last a decent amount of time
 

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For what it's worth I'm at just a bit over 13,000 miles on mine. I've been running Vit's Stage 1 since 2000 miles which targets 25 PSI in sport mode. I've done a 1200 mile road trip(each way) from Texas to California and back on the tune. No clutch slip on the stock clutch.
 

ebatr24

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I’m not 100% sold on this. I think that the stock clutch handles stock power, if properly broken in. The people who drive the car like a maniac right off the lot seem to have stock clutch issues with stock power. Honda plainly said that the engine was detuned for longevity, ie longevity of the clutch most likely. I have 8000 miles on my stock clutch, and I’ve been running Ktuner 19.5/23. I don’t beat on my car, but I don’t baby it either. Drive it like you are supposed to, and the stock clutch will last a decent amount of time
8k miles is a small amount of time to really say the clutch is sufficient for the stock power to have longevity. I've been driving a manual car for over 12 years, my stock clutch in my RSX made it to 129k miles before ever being changed and still had life on it the day I changed it. I am more than confident that I drive the car appropriately not that it should be that complicated that you can "drive it wrong". The cars torque in the midrange makes it annoying to downshift to pass when the car has more than enough torque in 4th gear to do so. My clutch didn't give me any problems till a few mods down the line, but I know others with stock cars where it will slip doing a pull in 4th gear. The fact that it is debated frequently in a car so new is enough to point that the clutch isn't quite perfect for the car. Whether you're sold on it or not, there is enough evidence to point that people should air on the side of caution with their clutches when doing even light mods to this car.
 


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FYI there has been people who had their clutch slip on a stock vehicle by simply running premium fuel. Lugging the car in 4th, 5th and 6th is more detrimental than on previous Hondas because of the torque this motor makes. Honda under spec'd the clutch pretty severely as the Type R has no problems handling it's stock power.
I doubt the fuel hurt their cause. This thing is designed to be run on premium.

I'm also sure the CTR clutch is designed to handle the power they gave it with no issues. I have a feeling anyone feeling their OEM clutch slip on their Si either added too much power or doesn't knowhow to drive stick.
 

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8k miles is a small amount of time to really say the clutch is sufficient for the stock power to have longevity. I've been driving a manual car for over 12 years, my stock clutch in my RSX made it to 129k miles before ever being changed and still had life on it the day I changed it. I am more than confident that I drive the car appropriately not that it should be that complicated that you can "drive it wrong". The cars torque in the midrange makes it annoying to downshift to pass when the car has more than enough torque in 4th gear to do so. My clutch didn't give me any problems till a few mods down the line, but I know others with stock cars where it will slip doing a pull in 4th gear. The fact that it is debated frequently in a car so new is enough to point that the clutch isn't quite perfect for the car. Whether you're sold on it or not, there is enough evidence to point that people should air on the side of caution with their clutches when doing even light mods to this car.
I’m in agreement. I was refering to a car that was kept stock and driven properly.
 

ebatr24

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I doubt the fuel hurt their cause. This thing is designed to be run on premium.

I'm also sure the CTR clutch is designed to handle the power they gave it with no issues. I have a feeling anyone feeling their OEM clutch slip on their Si either added too much power or doesn't knowhow to drive stick.
Honda puts 87 in these cars when you get them, unlike the past Si these cars don't have a requirement to run 91 or above. Before he moved over to tuning on Motec, Vit did some testing and tuning with the Si and he made more power by simply switching to premium grade fuel. He blogged the results on his page: http://blog.vittuned.com/introducing-the-2017-civic-si/
 

10civics

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Honda puts 87 in these cars when you get them, unlike the past Si these cars don't have a requirement to run 91 or above. Before he moved over to tuning on Motec, Vit did some testing and tuning with the Si and he made more power by simply switching to premium grade fuel. He blogged the results on his page: http://blog.vittuned.com/introducing-the-2017-civic-si/
Umm well, I have an 18 Si and in the manual it say 91 octane or higher in Sport mode and also says premium fuel recommended right on the gas door.
 

Leetcivx

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For what it's worth I'm at just a bit over 13,000 miles on mine. I've been running Vit's Stage 1 since 2000 miles which targets 25 PSI in sport mode. I've done a 1200 mile road trip(each way) from Texas to California and back on the tune. No clutch slip on the stock clutch.
i am also on VIT stage one since the week after i bought the car. I still have the stock clutch with no slipping. Sport mode is used almost all the time and i like to drive "spirited" :)
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