Civic Type R to get CVT option (Update: Debunked)

LoveToDrive

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I would have been fine with the CTR having a CVT tranny if it was optimized for performance, I would have also liked a DCT option. The reason I say this is because keeping these vehicles attracted to maximum customers is what is needed these days to keep them in production. Honda can't stomach too many low volume sports cars, as soon as they get close to being unprofitable they axe the models like nobody's business. The Honda S2000 could have gone on longer than it did if they had offered an automatic tranny option, one of the reasons the mazda miata is still around and the S2000 was axed. You can attract a much larger customer base when you have more tranny options, plain and simple, and volume is important on any model.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think keeping them low volume is part of their strategic planning. It means they don't overflow the market later on, as well as keeping their values high due to rarity, comparatively speaking.





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Dcreek02

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I guess I will wait for a model 3 with ludicrous speed. It will be cheaper (even more so with rebates), luxurious, faster, and environmentally friendly. Its a big mistake not to have a DCT or CVT version to attract a wider audience. Honda M/T is great, but manuals are a dying purist race (less than 3 % of cars built are manual).

In my eyes, a big mistake with this new generation.
I doubt it is a big mistake. They have never done a Civic SI automatic that I know of and those sales are still going strong. The manual is not a dying race, we "North America" are about the only country that prefers autos over manuals, the rest of the world has a heavy manual basis.
Let me quote myself off of Facebook in reference of the "wider audience".

"I doubt Honda is looking into making "a lot" of extra money off of this CTR. The only other Type R that came to the US was the ITR and Honda lost money on every single unit sold. (I doubt that will be the case with the CTR) This is just a small part of why they were "limited" and they showed that with a plaque on the ITR's. Now people have talked about the spot below the shifter on the new CTR that looks to have a spot for a plaque. Coincidence? ....Limited.....not everyone can have one.....not everyone can afford one.... Not everyone can drive one....then why make it for the masses....make it for the limited few that can truly appreciate being connected to the car. Just my thoughts...."
 
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Design

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The ITR was a giant exception. Honda leveraged 3rd party contractors to modify/reinforce the base Integra. The base cost was 20-30% higher than Honda had foretasted. But they kept the minimum required production in order to remain FIA certified.

The CTR being a global model, it will be comparatively cheaper to produce and in larger quantities. But it's expected to be low margin like other Civics (excluding dealer markups).
 

Dcreek02

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The ITR was a giant exception. Honda leveraged 3rd party contractors to modify/reinforce the base Integra. The base cost was 20-30% higher than Honda had foretasted. But they kept the minimum required production in order to remain FIA certified.

The CTR being a global model, it will be comparatively cheaper to produce and in larger quantities. But it's expected to be low margin like other Civics (excluding dealer markups).
How was the ITR not sold on a global market? I thought is was sold globally, everywhere they offered the basic integras
 

Dcreek02

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And what were those differences that you where referring to minus the cosmetic change of the front end. Just looking for a little more info on what you are referring to.

Edit: I guess I need to clarify, I am looking for something to show that the ITR was not sold on a global market (i.e. everywhere the regular standard Integra was sold)
 
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Phosky

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And what were those differences that you where referring to minus the cosmetic change of the front end. Just looking for a little more info on what you are referring to.

Edit: I guess I need to clarify, I am looking for something to show that the ITR was not sold on a global market (i.e. everywhere the regular standard Integra was sold)
I had a '00 Integra Type-R back in the day and from what I can remember the USDM seats were different than JDM seats, which were different again from the Canadian version (the latter two were fitted with red Recaros IIRC). I believe the JDM wheels were different as well.
 

Dcreek02

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I had a '00 Integra Type-R back in the day and from what I can remember the USDM seats were different than JDM seats, which were different again from the Canadian version (the latter two were fitted with red Recaros IIRC). I believe the JDM wheels were different as well.
That is all cosmetic things that are interchangeable. I was looking for something that say the ITR was not sold in a certain country making it a "non-globally" sold vehicle.
 

firsthonda

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Not to change subject or hack this post it's kind of related. Any word on Ilx based on new Civic with si power and ctr power with dct options?
 

Design

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That is all cosmetic things that are interchangeable. I was looking for something that say the ITR was not sold in a certain country making it a "non-globally" sold vehicle.
The term "global" is used to define a singular production approach. The ITR, depending on where it was sold, underwent different iterations for the chassis, motor, gearing, exhaust, etc. The CTR will not have the same variations at Swindon and will not be further modified by third party fabrication shops. Both of which increased production costs at an exponential rate.

Search JDM vs USDM ITR for a few good resources. I mention JDM specifically because of their popularity to export recycled powertrains to the US (due to Japan's comprehensive ELV recycling program).
 

JS2000

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I'm sorry but the s2000 didn't get axed because Honda didn't offer a automatic lmao. Honda doesn't need to offer cvt to sell cars. Also that's why cvts are offered in the basic civics and other models. The Si and type R were meant to be a 6 speed manual and that's how it will continue to be. Honda said that themselves.
Low sales volume ultimately killed the S2000, look at the sales numbers they progressively declined to the point where it couldn't sustain the platform. You can't attract a large customer base with only a manual transmission in North America, plain and simple, and North America was the largest market. You exclude a large portion of the female customer base without an auto tranny offering. The Miata continues to survive the S2000 got axed. Honda can't stomach low volume vehicles unlike other manufacturers, and they don't care about keeping a model "rare" they work off profit plain and simple. That's the reason they've been catering to retirees and soccer moms the last 15 years.
 

Dcreek02

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The term "global" is used to define a singular production approach. The ITR, depending on where it was sold, underwent different iterations for the chassis, motor, gearing, exhaust, etc. The CTR will not have the same variations at Swindon and will not be further modified by third party fabrication shops. Both of which increased production costs at an exponential rate.

Search JDM vs USDM ITR for a few good resources. I mention JDM specifically because of their popularity to export recycled powertrains to the US (due to Japan's comprehensive ELV recycling program).
If you want to define the word global as a singular production approach then there are many companies that will make the same model for other countries but have to "change" things on it to fit the laws/needs of the country. Not saying it is a law but for a broad example, right hand drive vs left hand drive. The manufacture had to change things on the car "depending on where it was sold" as you put it but still the vehicles were sold globally. Which that is brings me back to the whole point of what I have been saying. The civic is already being sold globally but in limited numbers just like the ITR was, so why make it an automatic for the limited few that do not want to or can not drive a manual. I do not consider it a big mistake for them to only sell it as a manual.

None of the Type R's have even been an automatic 92-95 NSX-R (manual) 97-00 Civic-R EK9 (manual), 01-06 Civic-R EP3 (manual), 06-11 Civic-R FN2/FD2 (manual), 15-? Civic-R FK2 (manual), 98-02 Accord-R CH1 (manual), 03-08 Accord-R CL7 (manual) 95-98, 00-01 ITR DC2 (manual) 02-06 ITR DC5 (manual).

We have always had automatics to put into the vehicle by why not do it, because they wanted the driver to be/feel connected to the vehicle. If they would put the latest auto that they offer right now into the CTR, well a few years down the line we would say it is garbage. How long ago was the 1st CVT and DSG the new top of the line and a few years later looking back at them they seam like crap compared to the CVT and DSGs they offer today. Where as the manual in any of the Type R's will never change, they are still a blast to drive to this day.
 

17siturb0

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Low sales volume ultimately killed the S2000, look at the sales numbers they progressively declined to the point where it couldn't sustain the platform. You can't attract a large customer base with only a manual transmission in North America, plain and simple, and North America was the largest market. You exclude a large portion of the female customer base without an auto tranny offering. The Miata continues to survive the S2000 got axed. Honda can't stomach low volume vehicles unlike other manufacturers, and they don't care about keeping a model "rare" they work off profit plain and simple. That's the reason they've been catering to retirees and soccer moms the last 15 years.
I'm sorry but I still disagree. There is a pretty big market for performance with manual only. It was not low sales. They didn't make enough of them actually. Any kind of performance oriented car from Honda has sold like hot cakes.
 

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