Civic Type R prototype spotted in Europe

[JYR]

I've said it before and will say it again...I firmly believe about 90% of this caR is function. Advancements in aero have advanced tremendously over the past years and this car will need aero to perform at its full potential.

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[bobafettm]

Agreed but you should NEVER reach that potential on public roads. Ever... even just goofing around you won't come close to that potential. Aero is still physics and it only come into play at high speeds which if you are at that limit on a public road is plain idiotic.

Now! An OTD or HPDE! That's a different story! Not having that aero could make this car feel like a disaster!

 

[STiTCH87]

You guys would hate all my aero then LOL

To me the CTR is tame and is almost to boring! Wish it was more radical or more hatchbackish like the Euro previous editions!

No I think your aero is friggin BEAUTIFUL! Nice car!

 

[STiTCH87]

I've said it before and will say it again...I firmly believe about 90% of this caR is function. Advancements in aero have advanced tremendously over the past years and this car will need aero to perform at its full potential.

The aero kit, yes. The rear spoiler? No. The car is FWD. Without documented proof that a rear spoiler somehow has begun improving the handling of a FWD car recently, I will stick with my knowledge of how it has not in all previous years.

 

[bobafettm]

The aero kit, yes. The rear spoiler? No. The car is FWD. Without documented proof that a rear spoiler somehow has begun improving the handling of a FWD car recently, I will stick with my knowledge of how it has not in all previous years.

FWD track cars actually do receive large benefits from rear downforce. You can literally feel it under braking and turn in. This is all speaking from actual track experience not just internet speak. If I'm going into a hard braking zone without rear downforce on a front motored car you feel the rear become light. If you enjoy trail braking like myself you enter some turn ins with some brake load... try that with no down force and you'll soon find yourself backwards on the track!

Now mix that in with steering with your right foot and you really want that rear end planted since you are making the car light on purpose to pivot before getting back on gas.

Rear downforce is important on any track car

Doing any of this on public roads is NOT a good thing. Sure... Can I post some rediculous lap times between fontana village and the fontana dam near the tail of the dragon but I'm not pivoting my car the way I do out on MidOhio...

 

[DrwMDvs]

Just because it is FWD doesn't mean you can't and shouldn't have an aero package in the rear. You wouldn't want your rear end getting all squirrelly at 130+ mph now would you? That aero is there 100% for function. Yeah, sure you might not notice or feel it on the street, but I can guarantee it's creating at least SOME form of down force even at lower speeds.

 

[dawsonj87]

I mean... what's being a driving enthusiast without driving a bit on the spirited side? And who says we can't enjoy the benefits we experience on the road that come from a wing like that? If that's what we like, then we're going to enjoy it. And just to point out, a wing will most definitely provide at least some amount of downforce on a FWD car; think about weight distribution. There's a reason my rear dampers are about half the size of my front dampers. There's practically no weight in the rear, and having a wing providing a downward force (downforce) on the rear end will provide benefit-- whether it's noticeable or not or whether or not you're on track, it's still there.

 

[ayau]

The aero kit, yes. The rear spoiler? No. The car is FWD. Without documented proof that a rear spoiler somehow has begun improving the handling of a FWD car recently, I will stick with my knowledge of how it has not in all previous years.

It's pretty much widely accepted that all cars will lift the faster it goes. It doesn't matter if it's RWD, FWD, or AWD.

Honda will never publish aero documentation. They never have and never will.

 

[Wyborowa]

ummm.... did you guys forget the memo...?

they said this car is 100% designed around FUNCTION. there are "vortex generators" on the top of the rear windshield that when air passes over it, it goes towards the "wing" creating downforce....

 

[A2typeR]

The spoiler will be very functional for those that live in Europe and can use the Autobahn.

As well as any Americans who frequent a track regularly.

 

[17CivicTypeR_Brian]

The spoiler will be very functional for those that live in Europe and can use the Autobahn.

As well as any Americans who frequent a track regularly.

Truth!
With any luck, our speed limits will be adjusted in the next few years. I know here in PA they've bumped up to 70. Most of everything west of the East Coast states has enough open spaces that even a 90mph limit might be lower than needed.

 

[A2typeR]

Truth!
With any luck, our speed limits will be adjusted in the next few years. I know here in PA they've bumped up to 70. Most of everything west of the East Coast states has enough open spaces that even a 90mph limit might be lower than needed.

Yeah Texas has 85 mph

I've heard Michigan may adopt 80 on some freeways but with our shitty roads not sure it would be good. Everyone drives 80 plus anyway.

 

[Tim818]

The spoiler will be very functional for those that live in Europe and can use the Autobahn.

As well as any Americans who frequent a track regularly.

It's those "other car guys" that hate on imports that hate on the wing too, calling it ricer this ricer that, can't stand those people.

 

[17CivicTypeR_Brian]

I'll bet the vertical surfaces will help the car track straight and true. I don't dare claim to understand aerodynamics and fluid dynamics at LEVEL: EXPERT, but as I recall at around 40mph you start to sense the differences in aero. At 60mph there would be a noticeable difference between the winged and wingless - enough to sway a person who hates it from having it in the first place? Probably not. It's like magic but it's not magic.

The base Hatch tracks true and straight at 75 as I've verified. Don't like the wing and don't often drive over 55? Probably won't miss it. Often drive over 80 on straight roads - you'll probably notice it if you spent 6 months driving WITH the wing and suddenly took it off....but any downforce from aero has an affect on DRAG and thus fuel efficiency. So, if you get rid of it to begin with and get used to it not being there, you'll have the advantage of adapting to the ride with slightly improved fuel efficiency.

 

[STiTCH87]

But you also said that a rear spoiler doesn't affect handling of a FWD so I think they were just explaining that it does . 80 mph windy day on the freeway you will definitely feel the difference without a rear spoiler. Doesn't matter that the car is being powered by the front wheels, there are still wheels in the rear that needs to stay planted haha. So yes some people may not like the look of it but it definitely serves some sort of purpose.

Cross winds on the highway are indeed something I did not take into account. Good call. Last car I had with a spoiler that tall was an ITR and I owned a GSR both prior to and after that car and personally did not feel any variance in handling between the 3, however none of the 3 cars were stock, so it's kinda hard to judge I guess.

My information on rear spoilers on FWD cars was entirely from what I have been taught since I was a child by many sources for example:
"It all comes down to the fact that a spoiler or rear wing can create downforce. The issue lies with the fact that the vehicle wearing said spoiler or wing needs to be going fast enough for it to do this. Your average street car gets no benefit, other than a styling upgrade, with respect to its rear fiberglass jewelry.

A race car, on the other hand, needs that extra bit of physics happening over the rear tires.

A rear spoiler on a front-driver race car will help with braking, cornering, and the reduction of lift. Under heavy braking, the rear of the car might want to come around, as the load forces are transitioned heavily to the nose. A rear spoiler can help mitigate some of that and keep the rear contact patches more firmly planted."

HOWEVER, times change, technology changes, tests change, and apparently we've come to learn (me later than the rest apparently) that there can be a feasible benefit.

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