Civic Type R at the track, goods and bads! Let's share our experience.

[LURK-R]

There are many many variables to consider so take my info with a grain of salt. I'm on the slower side of driving, completely stock car (suspension, alignment etc.) aside from V720s on a warm day at Chuckwalla CW clocking 2:08s (first time tracking this car at this track). Some of it due to overdriving as well, but only a couple of flying laps per session because the car was overheating (temps and pace). Stock everything else, no engine mods, tune, nothing. These tires were new and as you can see, there's excessive wear on the outside of the tire. I personally would/will destroy any tires that I use on the stock 20s without adding camber.

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[ca86108]

So you added 18s but are still experiencing rollover on the ps4 and quicker wear? I heard with a 35 sidewall and 18s it should be fine.

 

[LURK-R]

So you added 18s but are still experiencing rollover on the ps4 and quicker wear? I heard with a 35 sidewall and 18s it should be fine.

265/35/18 Kumho V720s. I would be fine if I wasn't on the stock alignment. I need negative camber up front.

 

[Lust]

Rollover will depend on car setup and driver / driving style. Even on 265/35/18 I got some rollover on 4S tires.

 

[circuit.heart]

How have you found the Civic compared to your S2000? IMO the Civic is way more forgiving and much easier to drive.

They're both hard to get perfect, but in different ways.

The FK platform is so forgiving - if you miss the braking point, apex, whatever, you can 90% of the time lift, scrub all four tires, and safely stay on the track. My AP1 would happily send you off for anything beyond a small bobble - you can only manipulate the balance so much before the rear end goes too far and you can't recover your line.

My problem with the FK is that it doesn't tell me when I did something right - sometimes sliding the rear end is faster, sometimes it's slower, sometimes I have to keep the front end tidy, sometimes it's worth the understeer to have it claw out while pushing. You almost NEED a data logger to figure if a change in braking/turning/throttling actually made an improvement.

Old school, NA RWD cars talk to you better. If all four tires were on the edge of letting go and you managed to hit all your marks, chances are you got as much speed as you were going to get out of the corner, and the datalogger can come out for the last 1%.

 

[circuit.heart]

265/35/18 Kumho V720s. I would be fine if I wasn't on the stock alignment. I need negative camber up front.

Can always smack the pins out of the top hats on the fly - it ain't much, and on the track the tire slip is worse than what the alignment change will do to tire wear anyways lol. Pop the pin back in for the drive home.

 

[LURK-R]

Can always smack the pins out of the top hats on the fly - it ain't much, and on the track the tire slip is worse than what the alignment change will do to tire wear anyways lol. Pop the pin back in for the drive home.

All things considered, this isn't a bad idea at all. I removed the pins months ago but didn't make any adjustments. The tires only have one more track day in them (10/11) anyway. Let's send it!

 

[ca86108]

They're both hard to get perfect, but in different ways.

The FK platform is so forgiving - if you miss the braking point, apex, whatever, you can 90% of the time lift, scrub all four tires, and safely stay on the track. My AP1 would happily send you off for anything beyond a small bobble - you can only manipulate the balance so much before the rear end goes too far and you can't recover your line.

My problem with the FK is that it doesn't tell me when I did something right - sometimes sliding the rear end is faster, sometimes it's slower, sometimes I have to keep the front end tidy, sometimes it's worth the understeer to have it claw out while pushing. You almost NEED a data logger to figure if a change in braking/turning/throttling actually made an improvement.

Old school, NA RWD cars talk to you better. If all four tires were on the edge of letting go and you managed to hit all your marks, chances are you got as much speed as you were going to get out of the corner, and the datalogger can come out for the last 1%.

I sold my ap1 to get the CTR. To combat that issue, try getting a very stiff front sway bar and use the ap2 rear sway. It helped me a lot and fixed the snap oversteer

 

[ca86108]

What pads do you all recommend? I don't mind aggressive pads but want something with a low amount of squeal and good bite as I still daily drive. I had carbotech xp8/xp10 on my s2000 and they were excellent on the track but howled like crazy and you could hear me from a mile away. I tried Powerstop pads on my m3, they were decent on the track and had no noise on the street. I am trying to find a balance between both, thanks.

 

[circuit.heart]

Winmax W5/W6, but they are out of stock for a while.

 

[ca86108]

Has anyone tracked on 245/35/20s? I see that they have the re71r in that size. I was thinking of running those on the stock 20s as I don't want to throw down a few grand on 18" setup since I will mostly track my m3. I might do 4-5 track days in the CTR only. What do you all think?

 

[RBrackett]

Winmax W5/W6, but they are out of stock for a while.

i would suggest Paragon P3/R5 since they are made by Winmax and appear to be in stock too

https://paragonbrakes.com/paragon-pbp370-brake-pads/

 

[Dave B]

Hi Guys, new to this thread. I have quite a bit of experience with RWD V8s on the track for lapping and competition. Now. I have had my 2020 at a track I know well a couple of times. The car is completely stock and have a few points.

1) The car is desperately in need of negative camber. Talking about which tire to use, whether to use 18" rims or the OEM 20" rims doesn't make a heck of a difference as they will ALL chunk and wear severely without negative camber. Although I don't know the exact specifics of the CTR suspension, just " banging out the pins" for track use and putting them back in may help get some negative camber for the track but will likely change your toe setting wildly given the OEM high caster readings. There really isn't a lot of reason to worry about tire wear with more negative camber as most tire techs will tell you, the wrong toe setting is likely far more damaging than camber.

The other issue with using lots more negative camber is that you can use lower tire pressures which A) improve handling and B) will decrease the loss of contact patch for braking that occurs with using the high pressures needed to prevent roll over of the tire when significant camber is not present. The point is, don't be afraid to have a track alignment and just rotate your tires more often.

2) The stock brakes are excellent especially comparted to my Corvette C5 Z06. That being said, the pads are not really up to repeated track use. Good for starters but any significant tracking will require better pads. Fortunately they are easy to change. I don't know much about the OEM Honda brake fluid but will put in a good word for Castrol SRF fluid. Even on my totally underbraked Corvette, Castrol SRF never let me down and I only changed once annually with 8-10 track days in most years. Small point here as well. Do not buy pads with huge initial bite. They tend to need to be warmed up and make brake modulation more difficult. It is not a good idea to spend all your time in the braking zones with the antilock brakes pulsing.

3) The car is so stable and easy to drive, I don't see why you wouldn't drive with the long push VSA in R mode, i.e. with all the nannies off.

4) Cooling is likely a huge issue as well but possibly in 2 different ways. Both days at the track for me were fairly cool with air temps no higher than 70F and to be fair, I didn't have an issue. Used the LogR app and backed off a bit when oil temps (which are actually derived and not measured) hit 250F. I did not trigger limp mode. OTOH, as has been pointed out elsewhere, the engine develops less power as it gets hotter. I am not sure if this is the computer doing it to prevent going in to limp mode, of if the IAT is too high meaning less Oxygen available for combustion etc. A bigger intercooler might help the latter but would make the former worse. How to get the engine bay cooler is a huge topic on its own.

 

[ca86108]

I finally got my 18" wheels. Rays Gramlights 18x9.5 +38. What tire sizes do you recommend? I am not lowered but will lower my car on Swift springs eventually. I see all different tire sizes for 18s. This will be for track use.

255/35/18
255/40/18
265/35/18

 

[REDRAGN]

Oldie but a goodie! 38 pages later...lots of info. Thanks y'all

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