Civic Type R at the track, goods and bads! Let's share our experience.

Stig_jdm

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Sorry if a similar topic exists, but I did not find anything. I thought we could share our experience as we start tracking our cars more and more.

Here is mine:

I have been to the track twice. Once at Laguna Seca and once at Buttonwillow.

Laguna Seca
I managed a 1:47.1 lap time. Car was bone stock with 1,000 miles on it. I loved the brakes, the shifter, how it puts the power down and the overall performance.

I hated the tires. I could only do 2 hot laps before they would become greasy and loose performance drastically.
I did see the temperature climbing after 3 hot laps, but I would slow down because of the tires.
Later on I realized the tires fell apart and lost chunks of rubber from the shoulders.


Buttonwillow CW 13
I managed a 1:59.4 lap time. It was my first time ever at BW so I was pretty happy with the result. Especially for knowing it was probably the 2nd CTR to break the 2' mark at BW and the other one being the CTR from Spoon. My car had 18" CE28 wheels (18x9.5 ET35 - Evasive spec) with Nexen SUR4g 245-40 tires. I also had Eibach rear sway bar. Everything else was bone stock, including alignment, pads, etc.

The car changed dramatically with the new tires and wheels. The RSB also helped with the car's ability to rotate. I was amazed with the amount of grip and how it puts the power down. The only cars that were faster than the CTR were track dedicated cars and the Porsches.

Since I had seen the temperature climbing at Laguna Seca, I decided to leave the heater on to see if it would do any good. The ambient temperature was a bit colder than at Laguna Seca (40F instead of 50F), but not too different. I did 6-7 hot laps in row with no issues whatsoever. 6-7 laps at BW is basically a full session.

One issue that I had was fuel starvation. On a long turn to the right, I had a fuel cut. The car threw emissions and rev match error codes. Tank was at 1/4. I unplugged the battery, let it sit for a couple of minutes, plugged it back and the errors were still there. I decided to leave, but I stopped to fill the tank up close to the track and to my surprise the errors were gone. I came back to the track and ran the whole afternoon with no issues.

On the last session, when I managed the 1.59, I felt some vibration on the brakes. It seems they are warped, but I will check it in more details this week.

This was a 2:02 lap with a few mistakes. Unfortunately I had issues with the GoPro and don't have the 1:59 lap on video.




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Xtelotatichl

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Awesome times man! I’ve done both tracks as well however both in my different gen Si’s. I hope one day I can match your times with my tiny motor lol
 

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I was already impressed by your Laguna time, but 1:59.x at BW13 on your first day is even more impressive. I know someone who can do a 1:38.2 at laguna in a GT4 on RE-71R, who did only a 2:01 at BW13 their first day. It's a very technical track.

If temps rise toward the red on only the 3rd lap at Laguna in 50 F, that's quite concerning. I'll often do 95 F days at Thunderhill and have gone once or twice when it's 105. It seems that some people say that the car needs more airflow, while others say a bigger radiator or an oil cooler. Do you have any insight into what might be the fix?

That sucks about the rotors perhaps being warped, I wonder if different pads might help prevent this in the future.
 
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Stig_jdm

Stig_jdm

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Thanks, guys.

Jonny, I have no problems with the stock pads. In fact I think they are really good for stock. They seem like a set of Ferodo DS2500. Of course, there are more agressive pads out there like the DTCs, ST43, etc. But this not something you need to get rid of ASAP like the tires.

Ayau, yes. The car definitely needs front camber. I am hoping to do something more effectivd than just removing the pins. Maybe some camber plates or full coilovers.

Yargk, thanks. Yes, 1:59 is really fast for a first timer there, but the track day was with speeddistrict so there is a LOT of track time. I was concerned with the temperature initially, but after this track day I am less concerned. Although the temperature was low, it has proven that it is not a very critical issue. I am pretty sure small tweaks will solve it for hot days, like oil cooler and larger Intercooler.

From my experience, pads do not cause warping. It is more the ability of the rotor taking excessive heat. Let's see.
 

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Northeast guy here, I won't be able to take my CTR out until probably April.

Out of curiosity are you using stock brake fluid too? I normally use Endless RBF but good to hear the stock pads are like the Ferodo 2500's, I've used them before and they're a great in between pad, just doesn't last long on track.

Also what tire pressure are you running?
 
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Stig_jdm

Stig_jdm

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Yes, stock brake fluid. As I said, I only changed wheels, tires and RSB. Everything else is as it came from the factory.

I typically flush the brake fluid after 2 track days, so I will be doing it soon. I have used Motul RBF 600 and Project Mu G-four 335. I like the project Mu better.

Ferodo DS2500 is a great compromise between track and street and the stock pads have a very similar behavior.
 
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We hammered our ctr pretty hard for two days straight on stock tires on PittRace 2.8mile 19 turn track. Having driven there close to 100 times in various cars the type r in stock trim was disappointing. The weather was a muggy 85* Our car over heated after 3 laps each session, the oil temp light also came on. The car went into limp mode a few times which was pretty awful in the middle of a straight when your on the track with 100k dollar cars. We also ran the car with vsa off and normal traction off using the Honda (up down ab ab select start) procedure which allowed the car to get 5-10mph higher exit speeds! Not caring much about the lights, the driver continued to hammer the car in the over heat conditions. We dynoed our car before and after the track days and results were identical.

There is hope in this car though! Good Tires will dramatically improve your fun factor, a good rad upgrade, a better flowing intercooler, and a good alignment setup. We feel that keeping the temps down and keeping the car from going into an over heat or limp mode will allow this car to compete on open track days with the newer caymans and 911 street cars.

Positives; Steering has great feedback, Brakes are awesome even with stock fluid!, car has power (for the first 2 laps at least), and Easy to control even with the crappy stock tires!

We will be back out again soon, our local track then VIR, Mid-Ohio and summit point.
 

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Is there a way to look at oil/coolant temp (actual numbers, not the needle) in the menus in the infotainment system or do you have a separate sensor?

Definitely will need those numbers available if I'm going to track this car.

Awesome time at BW, esp for your first time out. 2 minutes is the holy grail for s2k drivers, so any of the combination below is true

1) you are a godly driver
2) the CTR is a significantly faster car than even track modded s2ks (mod lists for sub 2 minute s2ks are usually longer than donald trump's sexual assault accuser list)
 

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Nice write up on your experiences so far Stig! I only have 1 track event in this car and that was a 2 day event at Chuckwalla. I'm on nt03rr 18x9.5 +45 w/ 255/40 RT615k+ with Eibach springs. Temps that weekend were in the mid 70s. Only issue I encountered was fuel starvation errors at 1/4 tank as well. I filled up, cleared the codes and just drove the car around the pit and everything reset.

Things I loved....the mechanical grip is confidence educing scary. Haha. Stopping power is really good. I got some yummy brake toast once I got familiar with the track but pedal feel stayed consistent. Did about 7-8 laps per day (2.7 mile track) I started with a 2:19 and finished with a 2:10 lap time. Fastest ctr recorded on Chuck did a 2:05 so I was pretty happy with the results of getting back to motor sporting it around after 10 years :p

I never got to use the stock tires but I read how they're not the greatest for tracking. Makes sense based on the specs of it.

Totally agree with needing more negative camber up front. Whoever can give us a quality coilover with camber plates has my money. Oh and the other thing I didn't like was how stupid quiet the car is. With a helmet on I have to pull attention away from the track and look at the damn cluster. A ti exhaust system is on the way to remedy that for the next track day.

Here's my recorded lap time of 2:10 if anyone is curious:

 
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Stig_jdm

Stig_jdm

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We hammered our ctr pretty hard for two days straight on stock tires on PittRace 2.8mile 19 turn track. Having driven there close to 100 times in various cars the type r in stock trim was disappointing. The weather was a muggy 85* Our car over heated after 3 laps each session, the oil temp light also came on. The car went into limp mode a few times which was pretty awful in the middle of a straight when your on the track with 100k dollar cars. We also ran the car with vsa off and normal traction off using the Honda (up down ab ab select start) procedure which allowed the car to get 5-10mph higher exit speeds! Not caring much about the lights, the driver continued to hammer the car in the over heat conditions. We dynoed our car before and after the track days and results were identical.

There is hope in this car though! Good Tires will dramatically improve your fun factor, a good rad upgrade, a better flowing intercooler, and a good alignment setup. We feel that keeping the temps down and keeping the car from going into an over heat or limp mode will allow this car to compete on open track days with the newer caymans and 911 street cars.

Positives; Steering has great feedback, Brakes are awesome even with stock fluid!, car has power (for the first 2 laps at least), and Easy to control even with the crappy stock tires!

We will be back out again soon, our local track then VIR, Mid-Ohio and summit point.
Did the tires last 2 days? This is what happened to my passenger front in a very mild track day at Laguna Seca. At Buttonwillow, it was a way more aggressive track day, with at least 3x more laps, and the SUR4g did not show any sign of damage, just normal wear. It was a night and day change. The amount of grip with better tires is unbelievable. I can't imagine with better suspension setup.
20180105_202555.jpg
Can you tell more about this Honda procedure for VSA? What I did was, R mode, push and hold VSA button for about 5s and it says all control are completely off. This only happens if you are on R mode and hold the VSA button.

I completely agree with your list of proposed mods and the positives. Just the steering feedback that I don't love (when I compare to the Evo or S2000), but I don't dislike it either.

Is there a way to look at oil/coolant temp (actual numbers, not the needle) in the menus in the infotainment system or do you have a separate sensor?

Definitely will need those numbers available if I'm going to track this car.

Awesome time at BW, esp for your first time out. 2 minutes is the holy grail for s2k drivers, so any of the combination below is true

1) you are a godly driver
2) the CTR is a significantly faster car than even track modded s2ks (mod lists for sub 2 minute s2ks are usually longer than donald trump's sexual assault accuser list)
I don't think so, but it would be interesting.

Thanks, man. Yes, it is a good time. As far as I know the only other CTR that managed a sub 2' was the spoon car, but it had better suspension setup, better tires and better driver, but I was only 1s off, which is pretty awesome.

I am not a bad driver, but I still have a lot to learn. I lived in Brazil and I would do 1 or 2 track days a years for the past 6 years. Then I moved to the US and got back to track days last year and did about 10 track days, so i am definitely improving.

I have an S2000 as well, but it is pretty much stock, with exception of coilovers, RE71R tires, high flow cat and better pads/brake fluid. I managed a 1:47.2 at Laguna Seca, while I did a 1:47.1 with the CTR bone stock. I am pretty sure the CTR with better tires could have done a 1:45. So, yes, the CTR is a faster car to start with, but the main thing is that it inspires way more confidence and is much easier to handle. The S2000 is much more involving and fun, and it made me a better driver.

Nice write up on your experiences so far Stig! I only have 1 track event in this car and that was a 2 day event at Chuckwalla. I'm on nt03rr 18x9.5 +45 w/ 255/40 RT615k+ with Eibach springs. Temps that weekend were in the mid 70s. Only issue I encountered was fuel starvation errors at 1/4 tank as well. I filled up, cleared the codes and just drove the car around the pit and everything reset.

Things I loved....the mechanical grip is confidence educing scary. Haha. Stopping power is really good. I got some yummy brake toast once I got familiar with the track but pedal feel stayed consistent. Did about 7-8 laps per day (2.7 mile track) I started with a 2:19 and finished with a 2:10 lap time. Fastest ctr recorded on Chuck did a 2:05 so I was pretty happy with the results of getting back to motor sporting it around after 10 years :p

I never got to use the stock tires but I read how they're not the greatest for tracking. Makes sense based on the specs of it.

Totally agree with needing more negative camber up front. Whoever can give us a quality coilover with camber plates has my money. Oh and the other thing I didn't like was how stupid quiet the car is. With a helmet on I have to pull attention away from the track and look at the damn cluster. A ti exhaust system is on the way to remedy that for the next track day.

Here's my recorded lap time of 2:10 if anyone is curious:
Thanks, bro. I almost joined that track day at Chuckwalla. It would've been fun. Nice driving. Agree with watching the rev limit and being hard to tell from the stock exhaust.

I am also looking forward for coilovers/camber plate. There is a LOT of suspension travel on the stock suspension.

Hopefully we will meet at the track soon.

View attachment 81871
 
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ayau

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We hammered our ctr pretty hard for two days straight on stock tires on PittRace 2.8mile 19 turn track. Having driven there close to 100 times in various cars the type r in stock trim was disappointing. The weather was a muggy 85* Our car over heated after 3 laps each session, the oil temp light also came on. The car went into limp mode a few times which was pretty awful in the middle of a straight when your on the track with 100k dollar cars. We also ran the car with vsa off and normal traction off using the Honda (up down ab ab select start) procedure which allowed the car to get 5-10mph higher exit speeds! Not caring much about the lights, the driver continued to hammer the car in the over heat conditions. We dynoed our car before and after the track days and results were identical.

There is hope in this car though! Good Tires will dramatically improve your fun factor, a good rad upgrade, a better flowing intercooler, and a good alignment setup. We feel that keeping the temps down and keeping the car from going into an over heat or limp mode will allow this car to compete on open track days with the newer caymans and 911 street cars.

Positives; Steering has great feedback, Brakes are awesome even with stock fluid!, car has power (for the first 2 laps at least), and Easy to control even with the crappy stock tires!

We will be back out again soon, our local track then VIR, Mid-Ohio and summit point.
Team Honda Research West Team ran two Civic Type Rs at the 25 hours of Thunderhill. The cars were allegedly stock besides the required safety modifications. They both completed the race, but I'm not sure if they ran into overheating issues. I wonder if they were only pushing the car at 75% to keep the temps under control.
 

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Is there a way to look at oil/coolant temp (actual numbers, not the needle) in the menus in the infotainment system or do you have a separate sensor?

Definitely will need those numbers available if I'm going to track this car.
A Scangauge will only pick up the coolant temp. You need to know the PID numbers to read the oil and pressure numbers. The PID numbers are very difficult to obtain. You're probably better off running an aftermarket oil/water temp and oil pressure sensors.
 

ayau

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Is there a way to look at oil/coolant temp (actual numbers, not the needle) in the menus in the infotainment system or do you have a separate sensor?

Definitely will need those numbers available if I'm going to track this car.
A Scangauge will only pick up the coolant temp. You need to know the PID numbers to read the oil and pressure numbers. The PID numbers are very difficult to obtain. You're probably better off running an aftermarket oil/water temp and oil pressure sensors.
 

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