Civic Type R - 5 seat conversion

Civics4Ever

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Nice mod but, in the case of an accident, you will be screwed. Why not buy a car that was meant for 5 people in the first place.



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tinyman392

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Nice mod but, in the case of an accident, you will be screwed. Why not buy a car that was meant for 5 people in the first place.
@scottjua said that he contacted his insurance about this and got the green light. I hope he got that in writing (or better yet a new contract written up entirely) in case any claims do come up*. But if you can convince your insurance to cover it and write out an agreement to cover it, then I see no downsides (besides the cost and getting the next insurance carrier to support said mod if you ever decide to switch).

*There are a few things that an insurance contract can include that make stuff difficult. Statements that basically say that anything stated that isn't in writing is not agreed upon (so your phone conversation would hold no merit) or even a statement saying that anything not written into the agreement you signed is not agreed upon (so your written statement would hold no merit if you got one).
 

Hypnotoad

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I understand the concern about insurance, but I was actually asking about where to source the seats. Nothing on eBay right now.
 

TypeSiR

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I understand the concern about insurance, but I was actually asking about where to source the seats. Nothing on eBay right now.
Try car-part.com and input your zip code. Search for 2017 to 2020 Civic rear seat and look for "HATCHBACK", "HTBK", and "HB" in description. I'm seeing a few hits within driving distance.

upload_2020-2-9_17-26-51.png
 

d1390

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@scottjua said that he contacted his insurance about this and got the green light. I hope he got that in writing (or better yet a new contract written up entirely) in case any claims do come up*. But if you can convince your insurance to cover it and write out an agreement to cover it, then I see no downsides (besides the cost and getting the next insurance carrier to support said mod if you ever decide to switch).

*There are a few things that an insurance contract can include that make stuff difficult. Statements that basically say that anything stated that isn't in writing is not agreed upon (so your phone conversation would hold no merit) or even a statement saying that anything not written into the agreement you signed is not agreed upon (so your written statement would hold no merit if you got one).
Yup I agree with this. Has to be in writing and at least signed off. Phone conversation has no merit. That one person could say 'No issues' but the next person might say it is.
 

tacthecat

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Looks great and well documented.
Besides a likely insurance fail, most state inspections will likely not pass, and your drivetrain and suspension warranty will likely be challenged for anything related to (possible) overloading. It would be impossible for you to successfully document never having overloaded (beyond the total capacity of 650 or 680 lbs) that the CTR is certified for.
 

Hypnotoad

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most state inspections will likely not pass
Luckily I'm in CA where for some reason we don't have state inspections.

It would be impossible for you to successfully document never having overloaded (beyond the total capacity of 650 or 680 lbs) that the CTR is certified for.
That's true even with 4 seats. 4x 200 lb people is 800 lbs. Nobody can prove they've never had 4 200 lb dudes in their car.

Not trying to be argumentative. My thought is just that aside from your insurance company questioning how there were 5 people in your 4 seater during an accident, there probably isn't much to consider here. Well, unless you significantly exceed the weight limit -- that may not be good for the suspension.
 

tinyman392

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Luckily I'm in CA where for some reason we don't have state inspections.



That's true even with 4 seats. 4x 200 lb people is 800 lbs. Nobody can prove they've never had 4 200 lb dudes in their car.

Not trying to be argumentative. My thought is just that aside from your insurance company questioning how there were 5 people in your 4 seater during an accident, there probably isn't much to consider here. Well, unless you significantly exceed the weight limit -- that may not be good for the suspension.
Honda can simply say that by adding an additional person to the car, it may have been over the weight limit and deny the suspension warranty claim. Basically modding the car to fit 5 people opens the door for them to question this. It would be up to you to prove that you didn't cause this issue by allowing 5 people into your car.

It's like tuning your motor. You can just tune it specifically for Hondata's magical TCS. Technically shouldn't void any warranty on your motor whatsoever since the tune itself can't cause damage to the motor since it either meets Honda's tuning exactly (in the case TCS isn't used) or is stressing the motor less than Honda's tune does (when TCS kicks, no wheel hops or spins which are stressful on powertrain). But, if you come in with a tuned car, now it's on you to prove that you didn't damage the car yourself.
 

tacthecat

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Interestingly the 2020 Civics can determine an overloading issue and will generate numerous alerts (ACC, CMBS, etc).
Doubt that will save you in this situation, modifying passenger capacity, but at least Honda is addressing the overweight issue.
 

Hypnotoad

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Read thru my car insurance policy today. It has some interesting exclusions:

Caused by or as a consequence of:

a. Discharge of a nuclear weapon (even if accidental);

b. War (declared or undeclared);

c. Civil war;

d. Insurrection; or

e. Rebellion or revolution.
:)


My particular insurance policy doesn't appear to have any exclusions around modifications or improper use of the vehicle. You'd think if I put 10 kids in the car with no seat belts and everybody dies there would be an exclusion to catch that kind of crazy thing but apparently not in my policy.

As far as warranty issues... yes hard to disagree there, that could be a risk.
 

xile6

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Good to know.
Plan to get an R soon. Normally only have the wife and two kids. But every once in a while we take home a coworker of hers.

Also i think the main reason for the weight is the tires. The lower the profile the less load they take.
 

tinyman392

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Good to know.
Plan to get an R soon. Normally only have the wife and two kids. But every once in a while we take home a coworker of hers.

Also i think the main reason for the weight is the tires. The lower the profile the less load they take.
The load rating on the Continental SportContact 6 245/30/20 is 1323 lbs per tire * 2 tires per axle = 2646 lbs per axle. The total weight of the car is 3115 with 62% of the weight on the front and 38 on the rear which means that the front tires are bearing a total of 1931 lbs and the rear is handling 1184 lbs. So the front tires can handle another 715 lbs while the rears can handle another 1462 lbs. You'd also need to account for downforce as well then add the 680 lb limit to that (which would mostly be on the rear axle). Long story short, I don't think it's the tires that are the limiting factor, I'd actually say it's most likely the suspension.
 

ApexEight

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Pretty sure the Type-R doesn't come with the 5th seat because the Type-R comes with rubber band tires. Keep receipts of the seatbelts and all OEM components, document pics of the work like OP has, swap out the 20s for a safe 18 with some sidewall, and I think you should be fine. Feel like insurance companies nitpick about actual mods but not something like this. I'm pretty risk averse but don't think I'd have a problem with this given that all parts are just coming off the lower trim.
 

tacthecat

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Tire load rating is not the issue - 1200 - 1320 # per tire is close to the rating for my 17" and wouldn't be overloaded if you put 5 NFL linemen in the CTR.
The suspension and handling (& braking and clutch) would likely be quickly overstressed when at speed and cornering or hitting a bump.
OR it just might overheat!
 

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