f23power
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*LONG READ* Photos at the end!
So some of you may recall a month back..I began mulling over my options of potential replacement cars as my lease on Jaguar F-TYPE Coupe was ending and narrowed it down to the Civic Si. A bit about me so that you get an idea of my demographic.
-Age: Mid 30's
-Location: Southern Cali
-Occupation: Automotive at corporate level; supporting 40+ dealers on the West Coast
I was fortunate enough to get a 2017 Civic Si sedan in Rallye Red for a weekend and put it through its tests. I'll focus on some key points. Design, build quality and driving dynamics
-Design
Overall you can't beat British design. The F-TYPE was designed by Ian Callum, famed for designing for some of Britain's most iconic sports cars including the CX-75 featured in James Bond Spectre. The Europeans and Japanese have very different design languages. Examples would be Acura and Lexus. Both companies use very bold angles in their designs, which typically trickles down to their non-luxury divisions. The new Camry is a good example as is the new upcoming 10th gen Accord. Only time will tell if such designs can withstand design trends. British designs tend to be iconic and timeless. I'm not saying that the Civic Si doesn't have a certain amount of visual appeal but the winner here is the F-TYPE
Score: F-TYPE
-Build Quality
F-TYPE
The Jaguar Land Rover build quality has improved immensely since they were bought out by TATA Motors (based in India). TATA injected billions of dollars in the Jaguar Land Rover brand and it shows in its designs and build quality but its not perfect. Both my F-TYPEs suffered from some body panel mis-alignment and interior trim panels constantly rattling and squeaking. While multiple trips to the dealer corrected a good portion of the concerns...I ended up dealing with it. Some call it British charm and quirks..I just learned to tune it out. But for a car thats $75k+ I expected the build to be flawless. But that was offset by the quality of the materials used. Everything including the headliner was wrapped in soft grain leather.
Civic Si
I've owned multiple Honda and Acura cars in the past and they were all solidly built. Body panel gaps were consistent. Not a squeak or rattle from the interior. As a result..I expected the same when I drove the 2017 Civic Si. I was extremely pleased that hadn't changed. But the car isn't without fault. My gripe is how hollow sounding the doors were when you shut them. It just resonates. But I experienced this with my 2001 Civic, 2006 Acura TSX and 2007 Honda Accord Coupe. At this point I blame it on cost cutting. Strangely though...the 2002 Accord Coupe and both Honda s2000's I had didn't experience that. The outstanding fit and finish was offset by the choice of fabrics Honda used..especially the cupholder area.
Score: TIE
-Driving Dynamics
F-TYPE
The F-TYPE comes in two flavors for driving dynamics. The base model has a passive suspension system however engaging the "Dynamic" button will firm up the steering, make the throttle more sensitive and speeds up gear shifts. The S, R and SVR variants have driver adjustable driving dynamics. From a touch screen, you can manually dial in the active suspension, throttle response and steering.
I have the supercharged 340hp 3.0 liter V6. The same engine was available with 380hp (via software) on the "S" model. The "R" (550hp) and "SVR" (575hp) use the supercharged 5.0 liter V8. I can't argue the power and linear response of a supercharged engine. And realistically as a daily driver...340hp is more than enough and good enough for most jaunts at a redlight. The car doesn't have a dual clutch setup but the tried and tested ZF sourced 8HP70 transmission still provides lightning quick shifts.
Despite the F-TYPE being built from all aluminum, it still weighs 4000lbs! And with the passive suspension it shows. It holds its heft in sweeper turns but going around a sharp turn it sort of stumbles and fights for grip as it does not come with an LSD standard for base cars. Tire choice helps immensely as I upgraded to the Michelin Pilot Sport Cups.
Civic Si
I've been spoiled owning 2 Honda s2000s; 9000RPM redline coupled with VTEC. I didn't know what to expect experiencing my first turbo Honda. I experienced very little turbo lag and torque was plentiful throughout the powerband. I did experience some of the "rev-hang" but it really didn't bother me much. The shifter is what I expected coming from Honda. The clutch is a bit on the lighter side and didn't have the same mechanical feel that the Honda s2000 had. I wish the Civic Si had a bit more auditory drama. The exhaust system on the F-TYPE would snap and crackle and release a string of backfires when lifting off the throttle.
For a factory setup..I was beyond pleased with the suspension. It provides a good amount of firmness and damping. I wish there was a bit more of a drastic difference between regular and sport mode as the difference is subtle. Steering feel is point and shoot. Honda really nailed it with the setup on the Si and I would be hard pressed to modify it. The car is forgiving at its limits and announces when you're about to hit its limits.
SCORE: Civic Si
Conclusion:
Both are very different cars. Its the heavyweight British boxer against the Japanese Samurai. If cruising and valet parking is your thing..then the F-TYPE is the way to go. Its design to dollar ratio puts it with most high end exotics. It definitely get attention, photos and people asking about it. Its driving dynamics overall makes me want more. If I had to do the F-TYPE again..I'd get it with the active suspension.
The Civic Si doesn't stand out in a crowd. To the untrained eye its just another economy car in a saturated segment. But if you're like me and care about dynamics and an overall outstanding driving experience...the Civic Si is choice.
So some of you may recall a month back..I began mulling over my options of potential replacement cars as my lease on Jaguar F-TYPE Coupe was ending and narrowed it down to the Civic Si. A bit about me so that you get an idea of my demographic.
-Age: Mid 30's
-Location: Southern Cali
-Occupation: Automotive at corporate level; supporting 40+ dealers on the West Coast
I was fortunate enough to get a 2017 Civic Si sedan in Rallye Red for a weekend and put it through its tests. I'll focus on some key points. Design, build quality and driving dynamics
-Design
Overall you can't beat British design. The F-TYPE was designed by Ian Callum, famed for designing for some of Britain's most iconic sports cars including the CX-75 featured in James Bond Spectre. The Europeans and Japanese have very different design languages. Examples would be Acura and Lexus. Both companies use very bold angles in their designs, which typically trickles down to their non-luxury divisions. The new Camry is a good example as is the new upcoming 10th gen Accord. Only time will tell if such designs can withstand design trends. British designs tend to be iconic and timeless. I'm not saying that the Civic Si doesn't have a certain amount of visual appeal but the winner here is the F-TYPE
Score: F-TYPE
-Build Quality
F-TYPE
The Jaguar Land Rover build quality has improved immensely since they were bought out by TATA Motors (based in India). TATA injected billions of dollars in the Jaguar Land Rover brand and it shows in its designs and build quality but its not perfect. Both my F-TYPEs suffered from some body panel mis-alignment and interior trim panels constantly rattling and squeaking. While multiple trips to the dealer corrected a good portion of the concerns...I ended up dealing with it. Some call it British charm and quirks..I just learned to tune it out. But for a car thats $75k+ I expected the build to be flawless. But that was offset by the quality of the materials used. Everything including the headliner was wrapped in soft grain leather.
Civic Si
I've owned multiple Honda and Acura cars in the past and they were all solidly built. Body panel gaps were consistent. Not a squeak or rattle from the interior. As a result..I expected the same when I drove the 2017 Civic Si. I was extremely pleased that hadn't changed. But the car isn't without fault. My gripe is how hollow sounding the doors were when you shut them. It just resonates. But I experienced this with my 2001 Civic, 2006 Acura TSX and 2007 Honda Accord Coupe. At this point I blame it on cost cutting. Strangely though...the 2002 Accord Coupe and both Honda s2000's I had didn't experience that. The outstanding fit and finish was offset by the choice of fabrics Honda used..especially the cupholder area.
Score: TIE
-Driving Dynamics
F-TYPE
The F-TYPE comes in two flavors for driving dynamics. The base model has a passive suspension system however engaging the "Dynamic" button will firm up the steering, make the throttle more sensitive and speeds up gear shifts. The S, R and SVR variants have driver adjustable driving dynamics. From a touch screen, you can manually dial in the active suspension, throttle response and steering.
I have the supercharged 340hp 3.0 liter V6. The same engine was available with 380hp (via software) on the "S" model. The "R" (550hp) and "SVR" (575hp) use the supercharged 5.0 liter V8. I can't argue the power and linear response of a supercharged engine. And realistically as a daily driver...340hp is more than enough and good enough for most jaunts at a redlight. The car doesn't have a dual clutch setup but the tried and tested ZF sourced 8HP70 transmission still provides lightning quick shifts.
Despite the F-TYPE being built from all aluminum, it still weighs 4000lbs! And with the passive suspension it shows. It holds its heft in sweeper turns but going around a sharp turn it sort of stumbles and fights for grip as it does not come with an LSD standard for base cars. Tire choice helps immensely as I upgraded to the Michelin Pilot Sport Cups.
Civic Si
I've been spoiled owning 2 Honda s2000s; 9000RPM redline coupled with VTEC. I didn't know what to expect experiencing my first turbo Honda. I experienced very little turbo lag and torque was plentiful throughout the powerband. I did experience some of the "rev-hang" but it really didn't bother me much. The shifter is what I expected coming from Honda. The clutch is a bit on the lighter side and didn't have the same mechanical feel that the Honda s2000 had. I wish the Civic Si had a bit more auditory drama. The exhaust system on the F-TYPE would snap and crackle and release a string of backfires when lifting off the throttle.
For a factory setup..I was beyond pleased with the suspension. It provides a good amount of firmness and damping. I wish there was a bit more of a drastic difference between regular and sport mode as the difference is subtle. Steering feel is point and shoot. Honda really nailed it with the setup on the Si and I would be hard pressed to modify it. The car is forgiving at its limits and announces when you're about to hit its limits.
SCORE: Civic Si
Conclusion:
Both are very different cars. Its the heavyweight British boxer against the Japanese Samurai. If cruising and valet parking is your thing..then the F-TYPE is the way to go. Its design to dollar ratio puts it with most high end exotics. It definitely get attention, photos and people asking about it. Its driving dynamics overall makes me want more. If I had to do the F-TYPE again..I'd get it with the active suspension.
The Civic Si doesn't stand out in a crowd. To the untrained eye its just another economy car in a saturated segment. But if you're like me and care about dynamics and an overall outstanding driving experience...the Civic Si is choice.
