Civic Si vs Cadillac CTS VSport

[charleswrivers]

I’ve been contemplating jumping ship for a little while have have seen mid-201Xs cars in the $20-25k range which seems like a good value at this point given their age. Curious if anyone had owned a VSport or, hell... even just a CTS and can provide their feelings in how an Si sedan to a CTS compares day-to-day. The Alpha platform seems to lend itself well to the CTS being sort of a luxury stretch 4-door Camaro and is obviously worlds faster than anything but a heavily modded Si (and less efficient to boot, but my commutes are short). I’m sure it’d not turn like the Si, looks to be no slouch when pushed. I’d pass on anything other than a regular CTS and am not interested in a straight-V. I’ve got to see the DITY cost of replacing the magnetic shocks as I’ll expect they may be done... but at a glance on rock auto they look like maybe $250/each DITY which isn’t far off on what Si OEMs are going to run which was a nice surprise.

I’ve had a DHS for several years before and really liked it and figured I’d get into another Caddy one of these days. I appreciate any insights.

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[Amazon]

20-25K will likely only get you a first gen with higher miles, and they had quite a lot of rear end issues. I wouldn't spend that much money on a 12 year old Caddy. 2nd gen will run you north of 30K, so if you're willing to spend that much money, consider the Chevy SS as well. But at that price range, there are likely a lot of more modern and potentially better options to choose from.

 

[charleswrivers]

20-25K will likely only get you a first gen with higher miles, and they had quite a lot of rear end issues. I wouldn't spend that much money on a 12 year old Caddy. 2nd gen will run you north of 30K, so if you're willing to spend that much money, consider the Chevy SS as well. But at that price range, there are likely a lot of more modern and potentially better options to choose from.

There isn’t a lot of them around but I did do a search and found a pair of 2014s within 200 miles with 85k and 35k miles for $20-21k respectively and a 2016 for for $25k that came off the market in the last day I don’t recall the mileage on. I know they made Vs for a while but VSports are a newer offering. 2014, the beginning of gen 3, was the first year they were offered... so that’s the oldest I’d be looking at getting.

I’d considered SSs at the time of my purchase of this car but no dealer within a days drive had a manual and the 20% MSRP get-rid-of-them sale soured when any place that had them didn’t order manuals. My interest has since waned on having a Chevrolet while the idea of a few year old Caddy hasn’t.

 

[charleswrivers]

Giving this guy a bump. Would be interested if anyone has any insight on a CTS vs Civic... hell, even a NA 3.6 or 2.0T and just a car to car and living with them comparo. I doubt I’d spring for anything other than a V Sport but with my ‘18 having lowish miles and no new Sis coming here in a bit... if I’m jumping ship, it’d be here in the coming months to get the most out of it I can.

 

[Gotch]

V-Sport would be the way to go. I’ve smoked 2.0T CTS awd from a dig and rolls and also ATS’s

Ive never owned either, however....back seat is super cramped compared to the Si Sedan/Coupe, sitting in the back seat at car shows.

From what I’ve read, the Cadillac’s handling is sublime.

 

[charleswrivers]

V-Sport would be the way to go. I’ve smoked 2.0T CTS awd from a dig and rolls and also ATS’s

Ive never owned either, however....back seat is super cramped compared to the Si Sedan/Coupe, sitting in the back seat at car shows.

From what I’ve read, the Cadillac’s handling is sublime.

Thanks. I knew they weren’t big... but figured their backseat on the sedans would be about the same as a Civic. Might be a problem... I’d not want something smaller. The XTS or whatever it’s called (Deville replacement) is bigger than I want. ATS defiantly too small. I’ll have to fine one and crawl around in it. The 2.0T has little appeal... the NA 3.6 is supposed to be decent and it’s instrumented test of straight-line speed are around a stock Si (not dog slow... but not quick by any means) but I assume it’s a dead end mod-wise the same as the old 4.6 Northstars were. There’s reflashes for the 3.6TT for some headroom... though stock they seem like they’re pretty potent already. 2 popped up and then went off Autotrader w/in 200 miles of me... both in the $25k range. Not real common but they’re out there...

 

[Gotch]

While I was shopping for a new car a couple of years ago, I spent an inordinate amount of time sitting in the back seats at car shows. The only 2 domestic cars from GM that equaled the Civic, were the Chevy Malibu and Impala.

The ATS I was almost not able to get into, the CTS not much better.

For reference, I’m 6’ 250 lbs and my boys are 6’ plus....

For sure sit in one if you can. I’m amazed at the room in the Civics.

 

[charleswrivers]

While I was shopping for a new car a couple of years ago, I spent an inordinate amount of time sitting in the back seats at car shows. The only 2 domestic cars from GM that equaled the Civic, were the Chevy Malibu and Impala.

The ATS I was almost not able to get into, the CTS not much better.

For reference, I’m 6’ 250 lbs and my boys are 6’ plus....

For sure sit in one if you can. I’m amazed at the room in the Civics.

Yeah... RSX to gen 9 to gen 10... they’ve really gotten a lot bigger over the years for while I’ve owned.

Oh well... the Malibu/Impala didn’t interest me and unless a unicorn manual SS drops out of the sky... there’s not much else GM makes I’d be that interested in. When they shifted from the Catera, Seville and Deville... then jumped to CTS, STS and DTS I was still following their trim sizes well and though the CTS became more STS and expanded once the ATS was brought in. Might still be too small.

 

[BigBart33]

The car is on a completely different tier. I would do it personally. Only issues would be potentially worse reliability (though I’ve had good experiences with modern GMs) and the deal-breaker, for me at least, is no MT available.

 

[charleswrivers]

The car is on a completely different tier. I would do it personally. Only issues would be potentially worse reliability (though I’ve had good experiences with modern GMs) and the deal-breaker, for me at least, is no MT available.

Yeah... no manual is a bit of a bummer but the Z still can scratch that itch so I’m not completely without. I had a DHS for a few years a decade or so ago. I really liked the car and it doesn’t hold a candle to modern Caddys. Appreciate the input. I’ll have to look into how the twin turbo 3.6 has aged in the 6 years it’s been used. I don’t know a great deal about it’s quirks.

 

[BigBart33]

Yeah... no manual is a bit of a bummer but the Z still can scratch that itch so I’m not completely without. I had a DHS for a few years a decade or so ago. I really liked the car and it doesn’t hold a candle to modern Caddys. Appreciate the input. I’ll have to look into how the twin turbo 3.6 has aged in the 6 years it’s been used. I don’t know a great deal about it’s quirks.

I had an N/A 3.6 and it was a solid motor. No issues after 125k miles (actually ran smoother than any other engine I’ve had with that mileage). I’ve never heard of widespread issues with them, GM used the 3.6s a lot and should have had all kinks worked out by the mid-2010s. But I’m not too familiar with the V Sport so definitely a good idea to keep researching. In any case, it would be a lot faster and more luxurious than an Si so I bet you’d be pretty happy with it.

 

[mytmous]

First post! My brother-in-law has a '15 ATS 2.0T AWD that I've driven a couple times. Its a beautiful car. I was in the market recently and read reviews and comparisons for several months before deciding on my '16 EX-T.

His ATS is fun to drive and very comfortable. The handling in particular is plain incredible. Although I felt that the acceleration a bit ho-hum. It's a quick car, but just wasn't outstanding like the handling. And to be honest, it's really a bit of a novelty. How often will you really take a corner at an intersection at 45mph? Once in a while, sure, but I kinda drive like a Grandpa from day to day.

Truth be told, I'm a bit of a cheapskate and cost of ownership was a number 1 or 2 factor in my decision. My researching determined that cost of owning the Caddy was almost twice that of the Civic. I have 2 teenage daughters, and trunk space is a must for vacationing. The trunk on the ATS is mostly non-existent. I'm also not fan of having no spare tire. The run flat tires are hard and noisy, and for me leave a gap in sense of security when out on a road trip.

My bro-in-law has had his ATS for just shy of a year and has already replaced the touchscreen and had service on the steering bolts. Apparently there is a known issue with the steering bolts sheering off or something. It's covered under warranty, but both would be expensive fixes otherwise.

In all, I'm very happy with my decision. I've wanted to own a Caddy for probably 10+ years. This was really my first opportunity to get one, but I chose not to. Even my Stock EX-T ticks all the boxes for me. Reliable, fuel efficient, roomy, comfortable, quiet interior, decent handling, quick acceleration, etc.

 

[charleswrivers]

First post! My brother-in-law has a '15 ATS 2.0T AWD that I've driven a couple times. Its a beautiful car. I was in the market recently and read reviews and comparisons for several months before deciding on my '16 EX-T.

His ATS is fun to drive and very comfortable. The handling in particular is plain incredible. Although I felt that the acceleration a bit ho-hum. It's a quick car, but just wasn't outstanding like the handling. And to be honest, it's really a bit of a novelty. How often will you really take a corner at an intersection at 45mph? Once in a while, sure, but I kinda drive like a Grandpa from day to day.

Truth be told, I'm a bit of a cheapskate and cost of ownership was a number 1 or 2 factor in my decision. My researching determined that cost of owning the Caddy was almost twice that of the Civic. I have 2 teenage daughters, and trunk space is a must for vacationing. The trunk on the ATS is mostly non-existent. I'm also not fan of having no spare tire. The run flat tires are hard and noisy, and for me leave a gap in sense of security when out on a road trip.

My bro-in-law has had his ATS for just shy of a year and has already replaced the touchscreen and had service on the steering bolts. Apparently there is a known issue with the steering bolts sheering off or something. It's covered under warranty, but both would be expensive fixes otherwise.

In all, I'm very happy with my decision. I've wanted to own a Caddy for probably 10+ years. This was really my first opportunity to get one, but I chose not to. Even my Stock EX-T ticks all the boxes for me. Reliable, fuel efficient, roomy, comfortable, quiet interior, decent handling, quick acceleration, etc.

I spent a bit of time the last day or so reading. I can't find much from with the LF3 engine. The early 3.6 variants look like they liked to stretch timing chains or have poor oil flow to the tensioner and have issues... but the issues would crop up fairly early in life and the later cars seem to be ok. The CUE infotainment menu system got ragged on bad too... I guess it stinks compared to it's competition... but given I think the Civics infotainment system is fine and plenty responsive, I probably wouldn't mind it.

I looked at a 2.0T but, honestly... I thought the old 4.6 Northstars were pretty fine, ultra smooth engines. GM kinda got wishy washy with having higher end motors and never developed it further and it died on the vine. These high feature V6s in a lot of ways is a offshoot of the old NorthStar design and the idea of having one with that powertrain is kind of interesting to me. Even the NA V6 seems like a fine motor... but it'd lack any kind of "wow" power.

Years back, I thought of getting a STS-V with the supercharged NorthStar... but they're a bit long-in-the-tooth now and given it's very low production numbers and 10+ years since production ended... I'd be concerned with parts availability for it's one-off motor. I also am kind of meh on supercharged cars... I've had 5 turbo cars and would prefer to stick to them.

 

[jakdotdot]

I seem to recall the 2.0T had piston issues, but I think it got fixed in the later cars.

https://www.cadillacforums.com/threads/2-0t-bad-pistons-roll-call-build-dates.613529/

 

[charleswrivers]

Well... I’ve decided I’d narrow my search to 2016 and up. The engines on the plain 3.6s is further revised that year... a bit more powerful and seemingly w/o issue, though most any issue with the tensioner and timing chains had been sorted on the earlier revision... and anything ‘16 and up has CarPlay/Android Auto. I have gotten to like having Nav-via-phone on the infotainment. VSports have the same LF3 that they started with in ‘14. Newer NA 6s run a high 5 0-60 and a low 14 1/4 mile trapping about 100 and handles well to boot... so even going NA functionally wouldn’t give up much to my reflashed Si... though it’ll lack that slug of midrange torque in a much lighter car.

VSports run mid 4 0-60s and high 12s in a 1/4 mile... trapping over 110. They’re immensely faster. Reflashes do even more.

There’s a dealer w/in an hours drive that seems to keep moving inventory and has 16+ CTS often in the mid $20k range... and they’ve got a ‘17 VSport there now for $37 or $38k. Any of the cars depreciated roughly 1/2 their new value in 3 years... so the value is there. My old lady is out of town the next few but I do think I’ll be checking out a CTS. I may find, given my commute and driving style, I prefer to thrash the weaker 3.6 than pussyfoot around in the VSport and save $10k... though it’d be cool to have the VSport. We shall see...

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