Civic Si vs Cadillac CTS VSport

[charleswrivers]

I think I’m going to check one out that popped up. Around $35k ‘17 with 50k miles. Car is a CPO... high trim. Price on Edmunds/KBB looks around right. I’d rather spend more around new-Si money... so we’ll see. I have noticed this dealer has a half dozen “brand new”
2019 CTS 2.0Ts sitting on their lot that are about to be a full 2 model years old... so business must not be super great. Those are still laughably listed at MSRP. Maybe they’ll try and play hardball and not want to budge much. If so... they can keep it. I’m about to have a good chunk of time off from work where I can travel around and look a little. I do need to check out CTS competitors too and not tunnel vision on the CTS... though I do like it an awful lot. In reading... no competitor really seemed interesting. Anyone have any thoughts on competing vehicles? Looking at little bit of luxury... RWD or AWD... good mix of straight line and handling. Not interested in Dodges... checked them out when I ended up getting the Si and they just didn’t do anything for me.

Anyways, I have my own financing preapproval through my bank. Will probably do a look and walk this week... maybe this afternoon. I’d really like to check out a NA 3.6 CTS but they’re kind of hard to find at the moment.

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[charleswrivers]

Ok! I did a quick look at a 2.0T and a V Sport. They didn’t have a NA 3.6 on the lot to compare. Here’s the opening offer they gave me. Their price in the CTS is actually wrong and is $1000 higher than what I should be (they just dropped their advertised price). Considering I paid something I the 23-24k range for the Si... I thought their opening offer of $20,400 was solid. I’ve had the car 3 years in October or November and it’ll need new rubber next year... so it’ll ha e cost me about $100/month to own it at those numbers and I have my Ktuner and a flex fuel here shortly to flip (flex fuel not installed). The V Sport was clean, ran like a raped ape and will have 2.5 years/49k miles of its CPO warranty left.
I checked the value of this car and mid-30s is about right. They’re advertising it at $35.9k. Might be some more room but despite the sales guys apologetic “we can’t offer you much more than this for your Civic” on his opening bid... I thought it was aggressive as I was looking to target $19-20k on trade. There’s a couple nickel and dime charges here too (don’t care which way they shuffle numbers around so long as the bottom line is ok)... but... anywhere... here it is:

The place to work is going to mostly be the Caddy itself.

The 2.0ts felt roughly as quick as the (TSP) Si but the transmission was super lazy to downshift regardless of drive mode. I could about count to 2-Mississippi until it downshifted it’s you quickly floored it and was moving in anger. If you rolled in on the throttle... it was better but still pretty lazy. CTS V-Sports transmission was super responsive and would hold a downshift with you lifted for awhile to hold you where you wanted if you wanted to put the hammer down again. A shame because if the tranny was tuned right it’d not be half bad. The interior on the available 2.0t trims were a noticeable step down. Rear leg room is slightly less than the CivicX and more like a gen 9... plus the hump for the transmission tunnel. Ride was well sorted... though comfort mode is still fairly firm. I asked for a list of exemptions of items not covered by the CPO warranty as I expect the Magride struts/shocks wont be covered and they’ll cost a good chunk of change, though if they’re just struts/shocks with a harness... that’s within my DITY capability. Turbo sand other major stuff should be there. I figure I’d keep it roughly the length of time of the CPO period and let it go in the mid-20k range... so I’d be eating $10-15k to have the car for that time. I doubt I’d keep it until it was substantially older and would time and not mileage limited... averaging 8-10k miles a year.

I’ve watched/read a ton and I’ve really struggled finding anything else I want to cross-shop against it. A 400+ hp RWD sedan that will fit 5 that is a little more premium, had its big depreciation hit and has a little headroom for modding if I desired to do so is sorta the selling point. I didn’t drive it wildly... but it felt every bit a sub 5 0-60 13-flat 1/4 mile on the road... and I was actually impressed at its engine/exhaust note. The old lady is 5 foot-nothing and memory power seats like my old Caddy are great.

Thoughts? Suggestions on a vehicle to cross shop. I think I’ve thought about just about everything... there are no SSs around... I’ve tried Dodges and don’t care for them. I want a platform other than a FWD this time around and prefer to try something other than a turbo 4 as well. Variety is the spice of life

 

[gtman]

I think this might be worth a test drive...

 

[Drake]

How about an infiniti q50 red sport? I bet you could find some crazy deals on anything infiniti haha

 

[charleswrivers]

I think this might be worth a test drive...

I’ve never driven one though I’ve crawled into one and seen several on the road and watched some video reviews on them. I’m a little lukewarm on what I’ve seen and am generally lukewarm on Hyundai/Kia products... but I’ll check out the used prices and see how 3.3 Stinger/G70s compare to a V-sport. I never really priced one out or looked at it very hard. My old lady watched the Redline review and she was indifferent. She’s more of a brand snob than me and while she’d do a Caddy/Acura/Lexus... I think it’d be a hard sell for her. It is a mutual car... she’ll be probably driving it harder than I will, TBH.

 

[gtman]

Brand snobbery aside, this is a better car than the Cadillac IMO. For shits and giggles watch the first video because there's a lot of drive time in it. I think you'll like what you see.

 

[charleswrivers]

How about an infiniti q50 red sport? I bet you could find some crazy deals on anything infiniti haha

Watched a couple vids the night before last on the Q60... got my bearings it was what followed the G37 coupe and looked at the Q50. The red sport would be the trim to match the CTS V Sport... though the regular one may have good tuning headroom. I know it’s the powertrain the new Z will have. I... well... I aesthetically didn’t care much for the G-sedans while the G-coupes looked ok in that they were a slicked up 2+2 350/370z. The vids I saw commented that they trailed the Maxima in some features and well... (shrug) I don’t want one. I’ll wave my Nissan/Infinity flag with my 300zx but their recent offerings haven’t made me too excited and most of what I saw panned it’s ride, tranny and it’s presentation as an entry lux sports sedan.

I looked around and the Red Sports held their value to the point they’re not a bargain under the Caddy. Having had an old Caddy years ago... it’s also a bit of a nostalgia thing to get another. I’ve had 5 Zs over 21 years and still ha e one in the garage so that itch remains scratched.

 

[charleswrivers]

Brand snobbery aside, this is a better car than the Cadillac IMO. For shits and giggles watch the first video because there's a lot of drive time in it. I think you'll like what you see.

I’ll check it out. I’ll be honest... Hyundai and Kia products sort of don’t excite me very much and the idea of dropping $30-40k on one is madness. I had a Tiburon (I know... that was too long ago to matter) and my mom has an ‘15 Sonata that is very... ok. Not good or bad. Just ok.

I did look at Jax, FL dealers have just a couple of them. No used examples. The very few others they have are 2.0s... not the 3.3s. There’s one red ‘19 AWD GT2 for $40k in Savannah and Gainesville has a single GTS. Orange. Sharp color and apparently rare. I’ll watch/read more about them to ponder if it’s worth possibly doing a 3 hour round trip to look at one.

Maybe I’m too much of a snob to be honest and have tunnel visioned too much on a Caddy... which isn’t a good way to be to make a good, objective decision. It may just be a character flaw I can’t shake.
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She just walked in the door and I prodded the notion of spending $30-40k on a Kia Stinger and her response was “A Kia? What? No...” ?

 

[WOPSiWOT]

I’ll check it out. I’ll be honest... Hyundai and Kia products sort of don’t excite me very much and the idea of dropping $30-40k on one is madness. I had a Tiburon (I know... that was too long ago to matter) and my mom has an ‘15 Sonata that is very... ok. Not good or bad. Just ok.

I did look at Jax, FL dealers have just a couple of them. No used examples. The very few others they have are 2.0s... not the 3.3s. There’s one red ‘19 AWD GT2 for $40k in Savannah and Gainesville has a single GTS. Orange. Sharp color and apparently rare. I’ll watch/read more about them to ponder if it’s worth possibly doing a 3 hour round trip to look at one.

Maybe I’m too much of a snob to be honest and have tunnel visioned too much on a Caddy... which isn’t a good way to be to make a good, objective decision. It may just be a character flaw I can’t shake.
——————————————
She just walked in the door and I prodded the notion of spending $30-40k on a Kia Stinger and her response was “A Kia? What? No...” ?

I did a test drive of an AWD GT. The 3.3 V6.The RWD probably has better driving dynamics but I walked away underwhelmed. The chassis lets down the power train (bizzaro Si in that way). The transmission is kind of blah. Felt like it was trying to be a grand tourer, not a sport sedan. Pretty quiet, kind of soft. Budget A7 with a less convincing interior. I took a quick look at the aftermarket to see what was out there because it needs some stuff. Seemed a lot less robust than what we have in Honda world.

 

[Drake]

I did a test drive of an AWD GT. The 3.3 V6.The RWD probably has better driving dynamics but I walked away underwhelmed. The chassis lets down the power train (bizzaro Si in that way). The transmission is kind of blah. Felt like it was trying to be a grand tourer, not a sport sedan. Pretty quiet, kind of soft. Budget A7 with a less convincing interior. I took a quick look at the aftermarket to see what was out there because it needs some stuff. Seemed a lot less robust than what we have in Honda world.

Being a ~4000lbs, 5-door mid-size sedan/hatch, with an automatic transmission, priced at $50k, I'm pretty sure 'grand tourer' is what they were going for. If they offered a manual it would be a very attractive family car option for me.

 

[86salmon]

What about s4 or a 4 series?

 

[charleswrivers]

What about s4 or a 4 series?

I’ll give them a read and see what is around.

 

[Mcclaughry95]

Accord sport 2.0 unless we just want to spend thousands on upkeep and repairs. Because reliability is going down the drain in a hurry with mentioned vehicles. Or mazda 6 like signature series level.

 

[charleswrivers]

Accord sport 2.0 unless we just want to spend thousands on upkeep and repairs. Because reliability is going down the drain in a hurry with mentioned vehicles. Or mazda 6 like signature series level.

The cars you mentioned are good cars, but they’re the same FWD 4-cylinder turbo I’d like to get away from for a bit and aren’t appealing enough to me to trade out of my Si for. The Si has been a good car and it’s not worth getting rid of for something so similar.

I already have the same power to weight ratio of an Accord 2.0t and have an LSD in a lighter, sportier package with a better manual, which isn’t being offered anymore either now or shortly. It’s just a little bit bigger Civic that’s a touch more upscale. I checked one out when I got the ‘18 Si. I looked at them again on paper as a cross shop but there just no appeal to me in one. I’ve looked at a 6 in the past and, while they were ok... I’ve read about the current one with the 2.5t. It may have a torquey engine but it’s still just another 4 cylinder turbo FWD and reviewed performance-wise south of an Accord. The only thing I’ve got from the reviews was I’d be spending $25-35k depending on year with the 2.5t to get a quieter, smoother car than the Si... no quicker than my reflash and substantially worse handling than I have now with a more upscale interior. Aesthetically I don’t care for them one way or another. I had directly crossed-shopped 1 of those in the past already.

The Caddy is a CPO still has a warranty for about 3 years... which is as long as I’d likely keep it. I don’t think the Magride will be covered but I already priced out new shocks/struts all around for $1200 off of rock auto, plus a little more for the mounts. I’ve changed struts/shocks many times and is well in my capability as a DITY. Really about the same price as my Sis low tech adjustables. It’s also a negotiating point to knock some $$$ off and I expect I may have to replace them in the 3 years or so I’d have the car as 6+ years and 80k miles is asking a lot for any damper. Maybe they’ll be fine.

I do expect to eat big $$$ in 3 years on depreciation though. Big for me anyways as I’m generally a cheap bastard. I kind of figure I’m doing well getting $20.4 for a car I spent ~24k (I’d have to look) on 3 years ago. I couldn’t have leased a Si for less than twice as much.

3 years from now when gen 11 is solidly here and the ‘18 is 6 years old, I’d guess it’d be worth $12-14k... so I’ll lose upwards of another $8k in depreciation. I expect the Caddy will be worth $20k. Maybe a little more but not by much. That’d be $15k in further depreciation... so I know it’s going to cost me a easily $10k more on the Caddy in the extra depreciation, a set of magrides and higher operating costs (little more fuel and insurance I’ve priced out) than keeping the Si, driving 8-10k miles a year. I don’t dismiss this is real money and I’m tossing it down the drain by dumping the Si.

I’ve done back-to-back Civics trying to recreate an experience/feeling I had in the RSX they never quite replicated, 3 years each and they were stupid cheap cars to own and good to boot. I won’t have spent $150/month on them so far as depreciation goes when I traded out of them. I think it’s just time to do something substantially different car-wise... which is why I’m looking used-lux on a powerful RWD platform. I like cars... and like trying something different every few years. I’m kind of a car-whore in that way... I don’t get “married” to any particular thing for long. I could keep the ‘18 for years longer... It just feels like the right time.

 

[charleswrivers]

Ugh. Taking a break from the dealer. Went over the car and drove 2 loops with it... went to go get lunch and look the Si on the same loop... radio blaring on the Caddy to check out the sound... and on the Si to mask the road noise/clunks that the Caddy hides or doesn’t have. I’m undecided. Almost thing the V Sport is too fast and would have to be driven too gentle in some ways given my driving style.

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