Civic Si in GS

[Forcino]

I thought the V720 was known for poor wear. I had a friend give them a shot and they didn't last anywhere near as long as RE71Rs, even though they have the 'same' 200tw rating.

That could be the case as well. I only read up on the performance capabilities of the tire. But at this rate, I'll be buying REs in two months. Still worth it for $80/tire. But not for the regular price

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[5inn]

That could be the case as well. I only read up on the performance capabilities of the tire. But at this rate, I'll be buying REs in two months. Still worth it for $80/tire. But not for the regular price

Worst case you got a great deal on some summer daily tires!

Should be interesting on the RE71s this weekend. High temperature for Sunday is showing around 42*

Just glad I'm not on the Rival S

 

[sibanez]

Strut bracing is not legal in Street .

That wear looks normal . Even new RE71Rs will have excessive wear in the middle at first. You can try a few more PSI to help .

I don't think the front strut bar is legal either way in Street class. If it was a front sway bar it would be a different story.


I thought the V720 was known for poor wear. I had a friend give them a shot and they didn't last anywhere near as long as RE71Rs, even though they have the 'same' 200tw rating.

 

[5inn]

First shakedown of 2018 is complete! Took the car to the first New England Region (NER) SCCA event on Sunday. Weather was cold with highs in the mid40s. When I arrived I swapped on my new/sticker 245/40/R17 RE71Rs on some not super light wheels. Car is otherwise stock besides the CTR rear bar.

Around 145 people braved the cold, including plenty of novices. With the weather being the way it was, heat in the tires was a commodity and unfortunately I didn't have a co-driver to help warm the tires. Straight after a run the fronts would be warm-ish but the rears would still be ice cold, so handling was a bit loose. For tire pressures, I ran 36F/34R although it looks like I could have used less pressure in the rear (see pics below).

1st run on the new tires with the cold temperatures was hilarious. I almost spun it multiple times as the rears just had 0 grip. Tires felt better on subsequent runs, except the 1st run of the 2nd heat. I didn't spin at any point but there were a couple of moments that made me remember there was no heat in the rears. It didn't snap, but was more just lift off oversteer and was relatively easy to control since it is FWD.

We had 6 runs, 3 in the morning and 3 in the afternoon. My fastest was the 3rd morning run, which had the sun out. In the afternoon, I couldn't improve. By then it was much cloudier which led to colder pavement. My last run could have been close, but I almost had to come to a complete stop to prevent me taking out a wall because I wasn't looking ahead. Unfortunately on the video you can't really see the speedo/rev limiter and the car is so quiet it's hard to hear. I know on some runs I was hitting it more than once, but not for very long.

On the good runs the car handled well, and I was a little late and sloppy in a few spots on my fastest run along with an audible giggle when the back started to come out. Oops. I didn't realize just how well the car did until I started talking to others. 1st in class, and 3rd overall in PAX. FWIW, quite a few of the usual Hoosier guys either weren't there or were on street tires due to the weather. Definitely my highest pax finish ever at an NER event and ahead of more than a few very good drivers. Usually at NER, on a good day I'll finish somewhere around 30th out of ~150 so I was very happy with the 3rd place finish.

Race mode:

Rear tire (notice coloration differences from center/edges):

Front Tires:

Video:

 

[SandyEggoSi]

^^^Seems my oversteer concerns were not unfounded then after all. Which is fine when running into cones in a parking lot, but on the street...it becomes far less laughable and damn serious! I'm still kicking around runnning the 265's on the back. But I'll see what I can do about reigning in any hint of oversteer with raising front and lowering rear pressures.

 

[5inn]

^^^Seems my oversteer concerns were not unfounded then after all. Which is fine when running into cones in a parking lot, but on the street...it becomes far less laughable and damn serious! I'm still kicking around runnning the 265's on the back. But I'll see what I can do about reigning in any hint of oversteer with raising front and lowering rear pressures.

No, I still think they are unfounded

I had TC fully off aka going through the multistep process until the lights are on/blinking. I was on brand new RE71Rs which can be slippery at first. It was at the very warmest, 46*. Not ideal for a summer only autocross tire. The oversteer was induced by me, mainly it was lift off oversteer. The most frequent spot I saw it was at the beginning of a run. I would enter a slalom at full throttle, lift off sharply and turn the wheel. I'm not surprised at the results. It was most prominent at the beginning of the run because the tires were cold. I had not many 'moments' further out on course.

If you look at the picture of the rear tire above, you'll see I didn't even use a good portion of the rears. I was at reasonable pressure (34psi) but clearly could/should have gone lower.

 

[Forcino]

No, I still think they are unfounded

I had TC fully off aka going through the multistep process until the lights are on/blinking. I was on brand new RE71Rs which can be slippery at first. It was at the very warmest, 46*. Not ideal for a summer only autocross tire. The oversteer was induced by me, mainly it was lift off oversteer. The most frequent spot I saw it was at the beginning of a run. I would enter a slalom at full throttle, lift off sharply and turn the wheel. I'm not surprised at the results. It was most prominent at the beginning of the run because the tires were cold. I had not many 'moments' further out on course.

If you look at the picture of the rear tire above, you'll see I didn't even use a good portion of the rears. I was at reasonable pressure (34psi) but clearly could/should have gone lower.

I agree. You're only going to induce oversteer in extreme driving conditions that go along with autocross or track use (and a tight track at that). If you're driving like this on the street, there are more issues that need to be addressed than just changing your tires or sway bar.

 

[SandyEggoSi]

I agree. You're only going to induce oversteer in extreme driving conditions that go along with autocross or track use (and a tight track at that). If you're driving like this on the street, there are more issues that need to be addressed than just changing your tires or sway bar.

Increasing my overall rear tire width increases the threshold at which I can drive hard and not have to worry about oversteer in an unplanned situation. On a closed course, u can work up to speed and you memorize every little bit of the track. On the street, too many variables and so I'd like to not have to get into a sudden oversteer situation but I DID want more grip via the RSB. The RSB will allow the rear tire to take up some extra duty from the front where the front would have just begun to push. Anyway, to each their own. I'm not married to running my car hard on only 3 laps every 3rd Sunday per month around a series of cones. I don't see anything bad about wanting to up the safety margin for driving on the street by adding more rear grip after adding a RSB. I'm running 18x9" wheels and they can handle a bit more width in the back anyway. Who knows if I'll actually end up doing it tho...just theoretical at this point.

 

[BarracksSi]

I don't see anything bad about wanting to up the safety margin for driving on the street by adding more rear grip after adding a RSB.

Hang on there, Sparky, you're getting it backwards...

Whichever end of the car has the stiffer sway bar will have less grip than the other end.

Let's consider an extreme example where the front has no swaybar and the rear is completely rigid. In a corner, as the body of the car leans, both of the front wheels will still reach the pavement freely -- the inside tire gets pushed down by the suspension spring. The rigid rear, however, will lift the inside rear tire -- it's going upwards with the inboard side of the chassis -- so now there's just one tire on the pavement in the back.

Of course there's a lot more to mess with, too, like spring rates, alignment, tire pressures, etc., but be sure you know the results of each change you make to the car.

 

[5inn]

Here’s what happens when it’s your very first run of the year, on 0 mile RE71Rs, with 40* temperatures and you kind of forget what you’re doing.

https://gfycat.com/AdvancedSilkyIberianbarbel

 

[boscotheduck]

Here’s what happens when it’s your very first run of the year, on 0 mile RE71Rs, with 40* temperatures and you kind of forget what you’re doing.

https://gfycat.com/AdvancedSilkyIberianbarbel

That’s about right. I had my car at Gingerman over the weekend with lows of 19° and highs in the mid 30s with fresh RE71Rs. First couple laps were pretty hairy.

 

[SandyEggoSi]

Sorry, was typing my last response as I was heading out the door. Yes, RSB will take some cornering duty off the rear and allow the front to remain more planted at the expense of the rear now more able to be coaxed into an oversteer situation. Overall this will increase cornering speeds but we all know the potential dangers of a "neutral" car on the street in the case of an oversteer situation (No, this isn't an old 911 by any means but I digress). I expressed the physics wrong in my last post as I was in a hurry when typing. But let's carry on and get over me cuz people are never going to understand what I do to my car but they typically can't argue with the results. They didn't understand why I took one of the 2 brake rotors off the front of my Zx-6R sportbike either and called me a fool. I had to point out that with a full Ti exhaust, a Li-Ion battery and other weight reduction, my motorcycle weighed less than a 250 ninja stock which also came with just one lonely brake rotor up front. Lolz. I then had to post pics and specs of OEM 700 lb motorcycles with you guessed it, a single front brake rotor and had to ask them if the manufacturer was being "stupid" or "dangerous" in those cases. Lolz.

I had a specific goal in mind for a specific use for the motorcycle and it wasn't repeated track abuse but rather street use under triple digit speeds and I never carried a passenger. There were no repeated haul downs from triple digit speeds and therefore, no need for 2 rotors and the fade resistance they would provide. I put high friction pads in place of the low friction pads and I could still do stoppies from 50-60mph. Getting 10lbs off the front of the bike via the spare rotor/ caliper, radiator fan and lighter front tire made was a revelation making it SO MUCH more flickable as the gyro effect was significantly decreased. It was now a hoot and 3rd gear roll-on wheelies were even possible with stock gearing!

I'm a critical thinker and I take a different path than most. I'll reiterate that I found this thread at the bottom of the page in the "similar threads" section. I prob shouldn't have posted replies in a G-stock thread but instead posted on another or made a new thread. I fig'd since I had extensive auto-x experience and had attained FTD before at events in street mod, I'd jump into the fray here. I'll bow out from this point but thanks for engaging me to this point. I admire the fact that you guys can fight the temptation to modify the car and are willing to fight it out in a car that can be so easily modded for improvements. I won't argue that a closely matched stock class comes down to having the right car for the class and then driver skill and that can make for some VERY tight times in stock class. I just want to enjoy my car to the fullest where I spend 99.9% of the time tho and optimize it for the street too.

Alright, carry on. =)

Link to my bike doing a wheelie on the freway for those who care. I had a ZX-10R also, but the 636 was balanced better and much more forgiving to wheelie due to lower torque. Less anxiety while at the balance point as a result with a less sensitive throttle. And oh yeah, I ridicule people that get a 1/5 or 1/6 turn throttle that attempt wheelies as they have now made their throttle way too sensitive to inputs and MUCH more likely to loop out doing a wheelie!

 

[5inn]

Sorry, was typing my last response as I was heading out the door. Yes, RSB will take some cornering duty off the rear and allow the front to remain more planted at the expense of the rear now more able to be coaxed into an oversteer situation. Overall this will increase cornering speeds but we all know the potential dangers of a "neutral" car on the street in the case of an oversteer situation (No, this isn't an old 911 by any means but I digress). I expressed the physics wrong in my last post as I was in a hurry when typing. But let's carry on and get over me cuz people are never going to understand what I do to my car but they typically can't argue with the results. They didn't understand why I took one of the 2 brake rotors off the front of my Zx-6R sportbike either and called me a fool. I had to point out that with a full Ti exhaust, a Li-Ion battery and other weight reduction, my motorcycle weighed less than a 250 ninja stock which also came with just one lonely brake rotor up front. Lolz. I then had to post pics and specs of OEM 700 lb motorcycles with you guessed it, a single front brake rotor and had to ask them if the manufacturer was being "stupid" or "dangerous" in those cases. Lolz.

I had a specific goal in mind for a specific use for the motorcycle and it wasn't repeated track abuse but rather street use under triple digit speeds and I never carried a passenger. There were no repeated haul downs from triple digit speeds and therefore, no need for 2 rotors and the fade resistance they would provide. I put high friction pads in place of the low friction pads and I could still do stoppies from 50-60mph. Getting 10lbs off the front of the bike via the spare rotor/ caliper, radiator fan and lighter front tire made was a revelation making it SO MUCH more flickable as the gyro effect was significantly decreased. It was now a hoot and 3rd gear roll-on wheelies were even possible with stock gearing!

I'm a critical thinker and I take a different path than most. I'll reiterate that I found this thread at the bottom of the page in the "similar threads" section. I prob shouldn't have posted replies in a G-stock thread but instead posted on another or made a new thread. I fig'd since I had extensive auto-x experience and had attained FTD before at events in street mod, I'd jump into the fray here. I'll bow out from this point but thanks for engaging me to this point. I admire the fact that you guys can fight the temptation to modify the car and are willing to fight it out in a car that can be so easily modded for improvements. I won't argue that a closely matched stock class comes down to having the right car for the class and then driver skill and that can make for some VERY tight times in stock class. I just want to enjoy my car to the fullest where I spend 99.9% of the time tho and optimize it for the street too.

Alright, carry on. =)

Link to my bike doing a wheelie on the freway for those who care. I had a ZX-10R also, but the 636 was balanced better and much more forgiving to wheelie due to lower torque. Less anxiety while at the balance point as a result with a less sensitive throttle. And oh yeah, I ridicule people that get a 1/5 or 1/6 turn throttle that attempt wheelies as they have now made their throttle way too sensitive to inputs and MUCH more likely to loop out doing a wheelie!

What club did you get FTD at?

You're wrong about a stock/street class coming down to the right car. If I drive last year's national championship winning GS car and we put a true alien like Tom O'Gorman in a Civic Si, I'm going to get absolutely wrecked by him. No doubt about it. For me, my car is 99% used on the street in a mostly boring commute with almost 0 chance to do anything fun. I'd rather be competitive on the weekend then save 25 lbs with a battery or have 1" wider wheels.

I hope you see the irony of worrying about rear sway bars and overstreer on the street and then post about doing stoppies and wheelies on the freeway.

 

[Forcino]

Yesterday my wife and I both autocrossed the Si in the pouring rain. It was pretty solid especially considering how wet the course was. I got 3rd, and she got 6th PAX.

 

[5inn]

Yesterday my wife and I both autocrossed the Si in the pouring rain. It was pretty solid especially considering how wet the course was. I got 3rd, and she got 6th PAX.

Those letters

I thought taping the front bumper was a bad idea, until I looked closely at the front of the car. I picked up a chip at the event a few weeks ago and have numerous others from highway driving

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