Civic AC heading for lawsuit?

frontlinegeek

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What bothers me is, we had a CRV that the compressor stopped working and once it stopped ….that was it....no A/C. This situations seems different. Maybe the compressor clutch is choosing not to work intermittently and the rebuild kit is for it.....?
Most of the CRV (and Honda AC issues in general) issues were down to the clutch not engaging anymore. The quick DIY fix is to take the spacer off that is on the clutch shaft between the clutch plate and the compressor assembly. I had to do this on my old 2001 Civic and I could have done it on our 2010 CRV but where my brother works at a parts warehouse, I got a new one at his price and had Honda install it. $550 all in. (For those wondering, the prescription from the dealership was to replace only the clutch assembly at a price higher than what I paid for the whole new compressor)

What the Honda Desk Rep tells you is whatever they want to tell you--- they are typically not techs
ZOMG YES!!! For all the praise I have for the dealership and service I get where I go, man, only the manager and senior supervisor on the service desk know anything. The rest of the clowns are just paper pushers or pushy sales wannabes.
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Gruber

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I believe it! The whole damned car was put on a diet! The Civic got dimensionally massive compared to all the previous generations and yet, hardly changed curb weight at all!

2017 EX w/sensing sedan: 2799 lbs
2012 EX sedan: 2787 lbs
2006 EX sedan: 2804 lbs
2001 EX sedan: 2615 lbs

The engineers must have very strict weight limits on every subsystem from door locks to transmissions. That's also why the sheet metal gets thinner and thinner. Literally every ounce counts to meet the target for the whole car. As it happens, light and thin heat exchangers are also more efficient (AC condensers and evaporators, radiators, intercoolers...). They are thin like beer cans but If these parts didn't need to take some internal pressure they would probably make them from the kitchen type aluminum foil.
 

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The engineers must have very strict weight limits on every subsystem from door locks to transmissions. That's also why the sheet metal gets thinner and thinner. Literally every ounce counts to meet the target for the whole car. As it happens, light and thin heat exchangers are also more efficient (AC condensers and evaporators, radiators, intercoolers...). They are thin like beer cans but If these parts didn't need to take some internal pressure they would probably make them from the kitchen type aluminum foil.
Well, the Honda engineers clearly dropped the ball when they designed the front lower Grill, and did not consider damage to the condenser from road debris.
There is no technical reason why the front lower grill should be such a widely spaced grid .. in hindsight, and finer grid pattern would have been a far more protective design, while mainning identical (or even better) air flow

Luckily, its not that difficult to fit a "do it yourself" mesh, but with all the Addons available for the Civics, it amazes me that nobody has come up with a purchasable aftermarket one.
Money in the Bank .. should sell like Hot Cakes !!

Having said that, I'll sit back and wait for the 1st Dealer Pussy-Whipped owner to start bleating about "Voiding Warranty" :rofl:
 

Gruber

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Who cares about warranty.... Scotty shows you how to quickly replace the condenser.
On a Toyota of course. Hard to believe, :dunno: but Toyota's also have leaking condensers... And Audi's condensers also are (were?) vulnerable to rocks and the company does the same dance with "good will" as Honda and there was a talk about installing a protective mesh.
This must sound familiar:
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/sep/27/audi-design-flaw-air-conditioning-failure

Frankly, I don't believe in rocks hitting the condenser and causing holes. I would like to see such damage. I think they just crack when subjected to temperature cycles and some stress. (or have small holes that grow from the beginning ).

 
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Gruber

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But don't get too optimistic about fixing all AC issues easily...
I would actually get a good scan tool that reads all the temperature etc data, and be happy to do it as a hobby, but hard access to some parts is somewhat discouraging. Digging under the dashboard seems like a bear and a bore. Or boar.

 


slowman

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Just took a Picture of the 2018 SI Condenser.. after 9 months.

Apart from a few squashed flys that have accumulated since the last wash, the fins appear to be in Perfect condition, but it does look very Light and fragile !!

Si-Condenser after 9 months.jpg
I believe that is a photo of your Si intercooler.
 

B0nez

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My 2018 Si is now 9 months old, and the Condenser shows absolutely no sights of physical damage .. just a few squashed flies sticking to it .. so I intend to fit my own constructed mesh grill in front of the condenser,(like some others have done) to act as a shield for flying stones, etc, in the hope of never getting my condenser damaged by road debris.

Screw the warranty, if I protect it, it should never get damaged, and need to be replaced under or out of warranty, and if it does get damaged, the protective grill was "Never fitted" -- what protective grill ?? :dunno:

During the warranty period, I do expect the refrigerant level to "maybe" drop a little, and if it does, I will just re-fill it (correctly, using the correct equipment, and get on with life).

If there is a drastic A/C failure that needs to be addressed under warranty, then once again... refill what with what ?, do not know what you are talking about.? :dunno:
I am going to protect the SI's Condenser with an addon SCREEN, "BEFORE" it gets damaged !!
I am very interested in proactively protecting mine as well; when you do yours would you mind taking pics and doing a "build thread" for those of us that want to follow suit?
 

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I am very interested in proactively protecting mine as well; when you do yours would you mind taking pics and doing a "build thread" for those of us that want to follow suit?
There are others who have done this, and done a "Build thread" with Photos. (It was NOT my original idea... but I fully support the idea)
 

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I believe that is a photo of your Si intercooler.
OOPS .. my bad ?

I just "assumed" it was the A/C Condenser, from it's position as being the most likely thing to get hit by rocks.

Yes, if that is the Intercooler, and just visible behind it extending up a little is the A/C Condenser,
Then behinds all of that is the radiator.

That being said, what I posted looks like it is quite fragile, and is the lowest "Condenser" type of device, and this is the device that I saw the thread on , adding the protective mesh.

So if there is road debris damage actually happening, its the Intercooler that will take most of the punishment, and we don't see masses of people reporting that their Intercooler is leaking & needs to be replaced.

Bottom line, an additional finer grill can only HELP to add some significant protection, but now I have a gut feeling that the "road damage claim" is just more Dealer BS to push the blame onto the owner, and away from a warranty repair, on what may well be a defectively designed/manufactured A/C Condenser.
 


frontlinegeek

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So if there is road debris damage actually happening, its the Intercooler that will take most of the punishment, and we don't see masses of people reporting that their Intercooler is leaking & needs to be replaced.
I never got to see my condenser and now I wish I did. All I know is I never went in for that and they actually saw it was bad enough to be replaced under warranty so they did.
 

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I never got to see my condenser and now I wish I did. All I know is I never went in for that and they actually saw it was bad enough to be replaced under warranty so they did.
Big surprise -- just like
"What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas" --

"What happens in the Dealers Service Bays, stays in the service bays"
(unless they take your car out for a Test JOY Ride to get lunch !!)

-- they are the "technical experts" that you are expected to follow and believe with "BLIND FAITH".

Its almost the perfect CON , and frankly I am surprised that they have managed to get away with it for so long.
 

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Just took a Picture of the 2018 SI Condenser.. after 9 months.

Apart from a few squashed flys that have accumulated since the last wash, the fins appear to be in Perfect condition, but it does look very Light and fragile !!

Si-Condenser after 9 months.jpg


By Comparison, my 32 year old Maxima Condenser (That has never leaked)
Its quite Beaten up, but looks to be a lot more robust and stronger than the Honda part.

Nissan Maxima Condenser after 32 years.jpg

It is a lot HEAVIER .. the Honda condenser looks like it has be "optimized" for Minimum weight !!

"They don't build them to last like they use to ".

I am going to protect the SI's Condenser with an addon SCREEN, "BEFORE" it gets damaged !!
How are you gonna compare a 9 month old radiator/condenser with a few flies to an old Nissan?

As an engineering student I can tell you that new cars arent't being made sheepishly, or squeezing the most profit is their number one priority. Materials develop, new tech comes into place. Every new product has a buffer time where new faults are found. Sure, this new refrigerant isn't that effective but its a matter of time before it is perfected. The same story is in place when we switched from freon to R134.
 

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How are you gonna compare a 9 month old radiator/condenser with a few flies to an old Nissan?

As an engineering student I can tell you that new cars arent't being made sheepishly, or squeezing the most profit is their number one priority. Materials develop, new tech comes into place. Every new product has a buffer time where new faults are found. Sure, this new refrigerant isn't that effective but its a matter of time before it is perfected. The same story is in place when we switched from freon to R134.
Yes, I am comparing them !!! And why not ???

Anyway, I wish you all the best as an Engineering Student - hope you learn a lot and have a successful and rewarding career after college.

I hear what you say, but as an Experienced and highly Qualified Engineer, I (and I suspect many others) did not sign up to be a
Guinea Pig
while Honda develop their engineering skills.
 

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Yes, I am comparing them !!! And why not ???

Anyway, I wish you all the best as an Engineering Student - hope you learn a lot and have a successful and rewarding career after college.

I hear what you say, but as an Experienced and highly Qualified Engineer, I (and I suspect many others) did not sign up to be a
Guinea Pig
while Honda develop their engineering skills.
You are an engineer? Why do you drive an Si?
How am I a "guinea pig"? Because I follow the masses? I think its the opposite...I support Honda's engineering
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