Car purchase trouble

TegGSR2CivSi

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2018
Threads
2
Messages
8
Reaction score
1
Location
California
Vehicle(s)
2017 Civic Si Sedan
Hello All,

New to the civicx scene - first time post!

I need opinions and advice on the Si I just purchased in regard to dealing with the dealership finance office.

Here's the background:

  • Bought a '17 Civic Si in California from a Honda dealership
  • I have excellent credit and financed a majority of the price of the car
  • I filled out a credit application form from them (i.e. provided whatever information they wanted for financing) and was approved.
  • I asked and was allowed by sales and finance departments to make a down payment on a credit card (for the reward cash I'd get back later). CC payment went through and has since cleared, so no problems there.
  • Finance said loan was approved and Capital One would call me to finalize loan.
  • Got a call about 9 days after the purchase from the finance manager saying loan was rejected (go Capital One!) because down payment was made with a credit card. So IMO, the dealership has now messed thins up.
  • Finance guy said I'll have to bring him a cashier's check and they'll refund my already posted credit card charge they made. So IMO, he's trying to pressure me to fix his mistake.
  • Our contract says specifically the "seller can't change the financing or payment terms" unless both parties agree in writing. They accepted my credit card and contractually they can't go back on that if I refuse. I refuse to do so - I haven't appreciated how I've been treated this entire deal with them since my purchase (I asked the sales guy for assistance with all of this and even he passed the buck).
  • I own another car, so I'm not hurting for a car if the Si ultimately gets returned. At this point, that'd be the preferable route for me, but I'm fine too if the contact goes through.
The way I see it, the dealer can maintain the contract as long as they keep the financing terms the same. When speaking with them about all this and letting them know I wasn't going to drive a hour to them and pay for a cashier's check to fix their issue, they said they'd shop for another loan but I might have to provide proof of income.

At this point, I'd prefer to not do business with them, as this reeks of yo-yo practice, so unwinding the contract would be preferable.

My question - do I have to comply with providing more loan application information now that we've long since signed paperwork (+12 days since signing)?

It seems at this point I can just say "we agreed and signed a contract of sale. You collected my financing information and told me I was approved for the loan, I'm not providing any more information to secure a loan. Either provide the loan on the terms we agreed upon, or I'll return the car".

Can they obligate me to provide more information and make me jump through more hoops to meet the contract? Or is this a "hey you're supposed to do this IF you want the financing" (which at this point I want to unwind the contract)?

Thanks for your opinions and advice on this!
Sponsored

 

inv4zn

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2016
Threads
9
Messages
1,996
Reaction score
1,605
Location
Vancouver, Canada
Vehicle(s)
'16 Touring
Country flag
While I am obviously not an expert, my dealership would not allow down payments of more than $500 on a CC due to fees. They wanted cash or certified cheque. I suspect what's happening is you're absolutely right - whomever took your deposit screwed up, their manager came down on them, and now they're coming after you.

If you really don't care about having the car this very moment, just say fine, un-do everything and I'll get the car somewhere else - I'm pretty sure their tone would change immediately.

You don't have to comply with anything, as long as you return the car. Keep in mind them shopping for other loans means additional numerous hits on your credit, depending on how they do their inquiries.
 
OP
OP

TegGSR2CivSi

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2018
Threads
2
Messages
8
Reaction score
1
Location
California
Vehicle(s)
2017 Civic Si Sedan
inv4zn, thanks for the reply!

Yeah, I'd just undo everything and start again elsewhere if I can. What I'm unclear of is if they deliver a loan from another bank with the same terms, if I have to comply or I can just "no thanks". Obv no one on here is providing sound legal advice, just don't know if I can show up with the car and keys and they'll let the contract be cancelled.
 

inv4zn

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2016
Threads
9
Messages
1,996
Reaction score
1,605
Location
Vancouver, Canada
Vehicle(s)
'16 Touring
Country flag
inv4zn, thanks for the reply!

Yeah, I'd just undo everything and start again elsewhere if I can. What I'm unclear of is if they deliver a loan from another bank with the same terms, if I have to comply or I can just "no thanks". Obv no one on here is providing sound legal advice, just don't know if I can show up with the car and keys and they'll let the contract be cancelled.
(Not) legally speaking, I would think the initial contract is moot because it must include conditions on the bottom like *subject to credit approval or something along those lines. This is something you should ask the finance manager, as while as shady as they generally are, they're not going to break the law.

I quickly googled and came across this, you could probably find lots of other similar articles: https://www.carbuyingtips.com/top-10-scams/scam1.htm
 

Fk8 4343

Senior Member
First Name
Greg
Joined
Jul 31, 2017
Threads
2
Messages
268
Reaction score
276
Location
VA
Vehicle(s)
17' Civic Type R, 17' CR-V Touring
My question - do I have to comply with providing more loan application information now that we've long since signed paperwork (+12 days since signing)?
Yes. You do not have financing for your car. You need to get loan.

Our contract says specifically the "seller can't change the financing or payment terms" unless both parties agree in writing. They accepted my credit card and contractually they can't go back on that if I refuse. I refuse to do so
You have interpreted this incorrectly. It simply means that you or the dealer can't change the payment, term, or interest without a new agreement. The dealer did not change any of this; the bank rejected your loan. This leaves you with two options: 1) fix the original loan so it gets approved or 2) get a new loan.

If the problem with the loan is the form of down payment (check vs credit card) it is easy to fix. Write them a check. However the check should be equal to the amount of your credit card deposit minus the rewards. You shouldn't end up paying more, only the same amount. This is a fair compromise and I am certain that the dealer will agree to it.

Talk to the sales manager or general manager and explain to them why you feel that you were treated badly.

If this changes the terms of the loan then you may have to submit the loan application again.
 


OP
OP

TegGSR2CivSi

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2018
Threads
2
Messages
8
Reaction score
1
Location
California
Vehicle(s)
2017 Civic Si Sedan
Yes. You do not have financing for your car. You need to get loan.
I had originally applied for the financing through the dealer, so wouldn't this be my due diligence? Wouldn't the seller failing to get a loan for me they said was approved and we agreed that they'd secure a loan effectively nullify the contract?

You have interpreted this incorrectly. It simply means that you or the dealer can't change the payment, term, or interest without a new agreement. The dealer did not change any of this; the bank rejected your loan. This leaves you with two options: 1) fix the original loan so it gets approved or 2) get a new loan.

If the problem with the loan is the form of down payment (check vs credit card) it is easy to fix. Write them a check. However the check should be equal to the amount of your credit card deposit minus the rewards. You shouldn't end up paying more, only the same amount. This is a fair compromise and I am certain that the dealer will agree to it.
The only thing the dealer did was approve a loan that was ultimately rejected. Wouldn't this mean there are no payment terms and therefore no sales contract?

Also, if I'm paying with check and it is now sans the rewards I got into my original deal then I'm changing the (down) payment amount. Either leads to a change in what we originally agreed upon. Yes, I can pay by check...but what if I was actually unable to? What would happen if the terms they made were my only option?


If this changes the terms of the loan then you may have to submit the loan application again.
If the terms of the loan change, I don't have to accept the loan. That's made clear in the contract.

The official verbage says: "After this contract is signed, the seller may not change the financing or payment terms unless you agree in writing to the change. You do not have to agree to any change, and it is an unfair or deceptive practice for the seller to make a unilateral change."
 

Fk8 4343

Senior Member
First Name
Greg
Joined
Jul 31, 2017
Threads
2
Messages
268
Reaction score
276
Location
VA
Vehicle(s)
17' Civic Type R, 17' CR-V Touring
Due diligence is to get financing for the car you bought and make the monthly payments. It won't be hard to get a loan at a bank with excellent credit. Explain the situation to them and they can work with you and the dealer to get you a loan.

It is unlikely that the contract says they have to give back the down payment if you fail to be approved for the loan. So, if you want to dissect the wording of a contract, get a lawyer.

If you get a worse loan and you feel that the dealer screwed you the best option is arbitration. The goal of arbitration is to get the dealer pay you the difference between the bad loan and the original deal. But first you have to get a loan and make payments. It will not end well for you if you keep the car and don't pay (and that will make you look worse in arbitration).

Options: get financing on your own, give back the car (they may treat it as a trade in and not refund the down payment or sales tax), get a lawyer, or start arbitration if you get a worse loan. It will help in arbitration to show that you tried to find a fair solution. You can't accuse them of being deceptive without proof.
 
OP
OP

TegGSR2CivSi

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2018
Threads
2
Messages
8
Reaction score
1
Location
California
Vehicle(s)
2017 Civic Si Sedan
Update: TL;DR, I probably called their bluff and this dealership just doesn't like processing credit card payments (but will to finalize a sale), and then pulls this crap to get consumers to pay by check instead.

The story: The finance guy called me this afternoon asking if I was driving myself up with a cashier's check.

I told him I wasn't, and wasn't going to change how I paid them since they accepted it in the first place.

The guy threatened: "if you don't pay in check, this loan won't go through and we won't be able to secure financing for you. You don't have an option, you have to pay by check."

I said: "ok so my options are really pay by check or the contract falls through..."

"Well yeah, you'd have to return the car immediately to us. We'd take back the car. So you need to get that check to me"

"Eh, that's fine, I'll return the car"

".....ok fine, I'll have our general manager call you shortly"

"Great! I'll bring it over"

I then correspond BY TEXT MESSAGE ONLY (very caring and professional sales team, he wouldn't answer my calls) by the sales rep that sold me the car (not the GM), ultimately saying the finance guy secured a loan with a different lender an everything was good.

The finance guy couldn't even bother to call me back to let me know!

The two gotchas now are: is that an honest outcome or will my car be possessed in the next few days? (Spiteful of them but doubtful), and will the loan they have matched the terms of the contract?

I'll keep you posted as things wrap up. Thanks all for their help and input!
 

inv4zn

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2016
Threads
9
Messages
1,996
Reaction score
1,605
Location
Vancouver, Canada
Vehicle(s)
'16 Touring
Country flag
This sounds like a nightmare -- but since it does indeed look like they were bluffing to save a few bucks on fees, absolutely pore over the new contract twice, confirm everything makes sense, and wasn't altered from the first one that you both agreed to.
 

Rman1999

New Member
First Name
Ron
Joined
Feb 7, 2018
Threads
1
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Location
Seattle, WA
Vehicle(s)
2014 Toyota Hybrid Highlander, 2018 Honda Ridgeline, 2001 Toyota 4Runner
Glad you stood your ground.

It was reading something like this I saw today:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/buyi...-dos-and-donts/ss-BBIuK2Q?ocid=ientp#image=11

"Many times, a car dealer will offer you the chance to take the car home and complete the paperwork later. Don’t fall for it, for several reasons. First, you’re liable to fall in love with the car, and you won’t be able to negotiate with the impartiality that you need to get a good deal.

Second, and more sinister, is that the dealer will tell you that they weren't able to get the financing offer that they promised "when the lender's office opened on Monday morning." Instead, they'll offer you a much more expensive deal. At that point, few consumers are willing to take the car back to the dealer and cancel the transaction. Instead, you think you are just stuck with the new offer (hint: you’re not). There are even names for the practice. They call it spotting or yo-yo financing."
 


nothome17

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Threads
8
Messages
204
Reaction score
86
Location
California
Vehicle(s)
19 is 350 F
Country flag
Maybe the dealership is having a hard time finding a bank to take on the loan. And or it could also be the dealership isn't willing to work with the bank to lower the car price.

Sometimes it's better to car shop on the weekdays when the bank is open when your financing with the dealership.
 
OP
OP

TegGSR2CivSi

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2018
Threads
2
Messages
8
Reaction score
1
Location
California
Vehicle(s)
2017 Civic Si Sedan
Maybe the dealership is having a hard time finding a bank to take on the loan.
Interesting suggestion, but in this case probably unlikely. We went from "return the car" to "hahahah jk we found financing" in the matter of an hour. I think they were just being cheap and sleazy about the down payment they accepted. I didn't have to sign anything new, they just had to secure some kind of financing for the existing contract to continue to be valid.

Also, minor update: my car was NOT repossessed - so I guess I got that going for me.

I'll update again when I see the financing on the new loan when the papers arrive, but my guess is they WANT the purchase to go through, especially at this point.
 

nothome17

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Threads
8
Messages
204
Reaction score
86
Location
California
Vehicle(s)
19 is 350 F
Country flag
Interesting suggestion, but in this case probably unlikely. We went from "return the car" to "hahahah jk we found financing" in the matter of an hour. I think they were just being cheap and sleazy about the down payment they accepted. I didn't have to sign anything new, they just had to secure some kind of financing for the existing contract to continue to be valid.
Glad you were able to hold your ground and not give them leverage. Hopefully you didn't include the dealers GAP coverage as your car insurance provider maybe cheaper.

Hearing experiences helps a lot since dealerships don't really care about you. They may act like it but no.
 

koelek

Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
May 12, 2020
Threads
0
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Location
Philadelphia
Vehicle(s)
Civic
Country flag
Credit application information is the most important thing! You should definitely ask for more information...You should have done this by signing the documents. My brother, like me, got a loan, but the rates were lower than mine from moneyexpert.com, with 3%. He took the car, and it was much more expensive than my car, that's the answer. Although, I'm fine with the car and the monthly payments of 600. So I only spend $ 600 a month, because there are no hidden payments when my salary is $ 5,000. Also, my wife works, and it wasn't a bad idea to get a loan.
Sponsored

 


 


Top