Canadian Pricing Negotiating

NotSerious

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Ah ok, so I should expect 800$ off + that 1000$ Honda discount - 89$ (APA subscription), so: I'll get a 1711$ discount.
Assuming that you are correct on the manufacturer's discount, yes.
Note that most of Honda's manufacturer's discounts are financing discounts. You only get the discount if you finance with Honda. You have to have good credit to get that financing.

Note : Each Dealership has different deals with the APA. So the Toronto Dealership's discounts may not be exactly the same as the Montreal Dealership's discounts. I expect that they will be similar, but you won't know for sure until you join the APA and request a quote from their service.

As well, I am assuming that there is a Honda dealer in Montreal that participates in the APA scheme.
You have to confirm that with the APA before you join.

"Montreal: Most makes are covered, but please contact us by e-mail at [email protected] before joining to know if the brand you are considering is covered by the APA buying service."

Again, if you use their service, you have to do your homework beforehand (choose model, trim level and options, then get a detailed list of costs). Make sure that the dealer is giving you all discounts and no unexpected charges before you sign. Use Email to get all details before you go in to the
Dealership.
Sponsored

 

GoodBytes

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Assuming that you are correct on the manufacturer's discount, yes.
Note that most of Honda's manufacturer's discounts are financing discounts. You only get the discount if you finance with Honda. You have to have good credit to get that financing.

Note : Each Dealership has different deals with the APA. So the Toronto Dealership's discounts may not be exactly the same as the Montreal Dealership's discounts. I expect that they will be similar, but you won't know for sure until you join the APA and request a quote from their service.

As well, I am assuming that there is a Honda dealer in Montreal that participates in the APA scheme.
You have to confirm that with the APA before you join.

"Montreal: Most makes are covered, but please contact us by e-mail at [email protected] before joining to know if the brand you are considering is covered by the APA buying service."

Again, if you use their service, you have to do your homework beforehand (choose model, trim level and options, then get a detailed list of costs). Make sure that the dealer is giving you all discounts and no unexpected charges before you sign. Use Email to get all details before you go in to the
Dealership.
Ok, very good! Thank you very much!
 

Ksmit129

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So I got a burgendy night pearl Ext with senseing for $18500 (advertised $21999)

Its a 2016 certified used
Wasn't registered till 2017 so warranty till 2020, plus honda certified used 160k/ 7 year powertrain warrenty

Full 3m front end, slash guards and weather matt's, block heater, brand new set of winter tires (firestone) and lifetime free oil change

And 24,600kms

Couple scratches, couple hail dings
 

steinfeld55

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MSRP: $22490
Invoice Price (unhaggle): $21028
Markup: 1.5%
Mandatory Fees: $1785
Tax: 12%
Finance Rebate -$750

Total $25153.83

What do you guys think about this? Should I pull the trigger?
 

GoodBytes

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New 2018 Civic Sedan SE

MSRP: $22490
Invoice Price (unhaggle): $21028
Markup: 1.5%
Mandatory Fees: $1785
Tax: 12%
Finance Rebate -$750

Total $25153.83

What do you guys think about this? Should I pull the trigger?
That is about what I got after negotiating for my mother. I am in Quebec so they are other fees and higher taxes, ended up with 26k and some change (26036$ or something) after everything.
It comes down to around 750$ from Honda and 750$ from the dealership. Be aware, if you looked at the calculations, that Honda 750$ manufacture rebate on the car is AFTER taxes, not before as the website suggests. So yes, false advertising from Honda. So with the ~15% tax, here, the 750$ is really 650$ where I am. And no, the dealership didn't screw me, I have went to 6 different dealerships from different companies near me and really far away (a good drive) and same results. That really annoyed me. Just from the principal point of view. Anyway, in the end, it is the final price that counts.

Depending on the dealership, the dealership revenue in Canada for the Civic is between $850 to $1250 (depending on the size of the dealership.. larger they are, the larger they place orders, and larger the revenue is). So the offer you have (and I have) is good, in my opinion, but the dealership still makes around $500, especially if you buy from a large dealership. These figures comes from me paying very close attention to the salesman screen and paper that they try and hide.

See if you can get more, though. Like:
  • Discount (sold at cost preferably) on the winter carpets. Now is your chance to get them at a reduce price, and other accessories. Keep in mind that installation price for the accessories is part of the price. If the dealership wants to charge more, back out from taking it.
  • Get a free oil change or/and winter tire change. See if you can get that. If they are smart and you never serviced your car in the past there, they might give you either for free to show how their service is superior (or so they think), in the hope that you service your car at their location all the time. In the end, you get 1 free oil change or winter tire change, which ever you can get, if you can get something. Worth a try is all I am saying.

I also made sure that:
  • No labels of the dealership on the car. (They didn't pay me for me to advertise for them... so, no go)
  • No license plate cover from the dealership (like above)
  • All 4 screws for the license plate. I don't want to hear license plate vibrate. (Many cars cheap out, and only put 2 screws holes at the top, so the dealership can only put 2 at the top. Honda has 4 screws, but they might only put 2 at the top as the license plate cover that they might not have the 2 other holes at the bottom)
  • Professionally wax the car. Honda gives them money to prepare the car (clean, wax, inspect, transportation). They better use it beside transportation and mandatory inspection. to only pocket the rest of the money that YOU PAY for. Car should be waxed. If they don't see if another dealership do, and if they do, see if you can price match the offer (don't show them your offer that you got. They may match close to where you where and say they can't go more, as they'll think there is a reason why you didn't get it there). So yes, it brakes unhaggle service as you end up haggling again... up to you.
When it comes to the the deliver day:
  • Bring a powerful flash light. This is what I have (bought is for other reasons): https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B078LDQR8M/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    Take your time, to inspect the car top to bottom. Check for scratches or dents on the paint, check for scratches on the door panels inside the car, check for scratched on the horn plastic and steering wheel, check the touch screen. Check everywhere, including the windshield and windows for scratch. 'cause now is the time. Check if the door panels are aligned (as this is a mass produce "mainstream" car, you can't expect perfection, but things should align visually, you can always compare with the showroom cars). Now, is when you can point to issue for them to fix them right away or delay the delivery until the issue is fixed. The moment you drive the car outside, the dealership doesn't have to fix anything, and can easily tell you that it happened after you left, and point you to their "1 million inspection points" or whatever to say its not their problem. In my case, there was a clear coat level paint damage on the roof of the car. A tiny dent, probably a small rock hit the car while being transported. They fixed using the Honda color match paint, using the clear coat side and done it professionally, where you don't see it, unless you know exactly what to look for, with a strong light pointing at the right angle. Not visible under sunny day. Too small. They gave my mother the pen for free. Better job than what I would be able to do.

  • Make sure you have all the accessories you ordered.
Hopefully, I didn't forget anything.
 
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civicdabest-foo

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I find that with Canadian dealers, you can give them your phone number and walk out on their initial offer.

They will call you back with a better offer.

Rinse, repeat, until satisfied.

At the same time, get them to throw in some goodies like floor mats and cash cards for the service department and discounted accessories like 3M film.

With enough rinse/repeat, you should be able to knock down their price by 7-10%

Trick works like a charm, whether it's a $200k AMG S class or a Kia Rio. :D

But yeah, taxes here are a killer, always a bummer to find out the all in price doesn't include taxes.
 

GoodBytes

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I find that with Canadian dealers, you can give them your phone number and walk out on their initial offer.

They will call you back with a better offer.

Rinse, repeat, until satisfied.

At the same time, get them to throw in some goodies like floor mats and cash cards for the service department and discounted accessories like 3M film.

With enough rinse/repeat, you should be able to knock down their price by 7-10%

Trick works like a charm, whether it's a $200k AMG S class or a Kia Rio. :D

But yeah, taxes here are a killer, always a bummer to find out the all in price doesn't include taxes.
Sadly, this trick has not worked for me. I just get a call from them saying that "if I change my mind, and come back the offer is still there".. thanks... and most of the time they don't call. Or maybe I was not presenting it right.

Anyways... but what I did find funny is when we were looking at the KIA's for my mother (before she was decided to get the Civic). Without hangling, I was already down by about 3000$... Basically, we were looking at the car, and the sales man comes, we talked, and he dropped the price, we continue to talk, my mother test drive the car, and he drops further the price. And then we are this desk, we talk some more (not about price) just about the car, he just leaves in the middle and comes back with another offer from his manager... like... there is being desperate and there is being desperate. :)

But I think it is part of KIA business model. The MSRP is not the real price, and the margins are really high, so that you think you have this great deal when you sign.. mind you I didn't check the actual price of the car... my mother was not interested... so I am just theorizing.. oh and it was a last year model too, which might explain (emptying old stock for the new models), but still funny, as that was just so unexpected. Or maybe the salesman didn't understand how selling cars work.

But personally, I just wish I can buy the car from the manufacture online. Tesla style.
Honestly, everyone wins (beside dealerships)
  • The price of the car drops due to not having to give all these bonuses and margins of the car to the dealership.
  • The car manufacture makes more money, as they increase profits, and have a price that hit middle the ground.
  • Dealerships are show rooms with car service.
  • You save massive amount of time in not having to deal with dealerships and negotiating on the price.
Check, when you go to Honda Canada website and you "build the car", you have at the end all the same crap the dealership sales you: overpriced rust proofing, extended warranty, plastic transparent sheet that doesn't really protect anything at all for most people/situations, etc. Just add a "Buy now" button at the end, where you fill up a form for credit check, which is automated, and if approved, you are good to go. The car will be delivered at your place, Tesla and Genesis style:
Honda Civic 10th gen Canadian Pricing Negotiating this-is-how-genesis-cars-are-del

(at least in Canada)
 
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steinfeld55

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Was able to negotiate 1% below invoice price ($21028)

MSRP: $22,490
Discount: -$1743.58
= $20,746.42

Mandatory Fees (PDI,AC/Tire Tax): $1780
Tax: 12%
Finance Rebate -$750

Total $24,479.59 OTD

Free wheel locks + all weather mats.
 

hcivic12

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Hey guys ! Im currently looking to buy an Si sedan 2018.
I went to a local dealer today (near Montreal) and he gave me exactly what's on the Honda website.
28 690$ MSRP
34 659$ OTD with winter tires worth 1 100$.

He told me there's only 9 2018 Si in Quebec right now.
Is it a good price ?

It's my first time looking for a new car so I don't know much about how far prices can be negociated.
 

GoodBytes

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Hey guys ! Im currently looking to buy an Si sedan 2018.
I went to a local dealer today (near Montreal) and he gave me exactly what's on the Honda website.
28 690$ MSRP
34 659$ OTD with winter tires worth 1 100$.

He told me there's only 9 2018 Si in Quebec right now.
Is it a good price ?

It's my first time looking for a new car so I don't know much about how far prices can be negociated.
The dealership makes around 800-1200$ on the car (although I don't know for the Si if it is something special). Giving you the price on "Honda website" is no deal. Giving you over (which some dealership tried with me, is insulting you to start with).

You have to negotiate. If you can't, try a different dealership. Oh and the "But I have to order and trade with other dealership" excuse, is complete B.S. And that is why you basically pay the sales guy by buying the car from him/her... its his job. That said I am looking at Honda website and I don't even see the Si 2018 listed, so I don't know the price. Oh and the 'But at our dealership we come and share your hand when you service your car with us, we are nice and offer good service". BS. They never do, and their crappy coffee machine asks for money, just to try and make more money on you.

Also, as it has the 1.5L engine, I would be concerned.. maybe waiting for next year until things clear up (hopefully) might be wiser if you want to play it safe, unless you plan to lease and return within the warranty... then, I don't think it matters... I never leased...):
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/crv-oil-contamination/

And at 1100$ tires, they better be Michelin X-Ice Xi3 or Bridgeston Blizzard WS80.
Compare prices with Canadian Tire, especially now as you have specials.

The difference between the Xi3 and WS80, in summary:
- Xi3 will last the longest. People claim 4-5 winters (of course the amount of driving is what determine this)
- Xi3 perform better on ice
- Xi3 has better fuel economy
- Xi3 are quieter.
- Xi3 biggest weakness is driving on slush
- Xi3 are a bit less expensive than the WS80
- WS80 performs the best on snow and slush
- WS80 performs still rather well on ice, but not as good as the Xi 3
- WS80 are said to be nosier
- WS80 doesn't as good fuel economy as the Xi3
- WS80 are said to last 3-4 winters. Past 50-55% tread ware the tires perform poorly and needs to be replaced.

This is from what I collected from this forum and others.

I have the Civic 2016 EX with 16inch wheels, and I got the Michelin Xi3. Excellent tires, but failed me on slush with heavy traffic not moving past 30km downtown Montreal once. The moment I could drive past 30km, I had more control, but under it, I was slipping a lot, more than other cars. But going up hill, on a clean but relatively icy road with compacyed snow. while "everyone else" struggled going up the steep hill, I had full control, and passing the cars. But considering that the days with slush on the roads I took was only twice in the entire winter, and only really last winter... (well it was the second winter for those tires) I am happy so far. But the best tire it would really depends on the roads you take.

A decently-good deal at the dealership, is what I consider the "everyone wins" deal.
-> 750$ off from Honda (WARNING: Honda website says that the 750$ is before taxes... it is NOT. It is after taxes. So it is really 650$ for us in Quebec (yes, this is not legal). Also, reminder: Honda offer does not affect dealership profit margin, it is a discount that Honda does to help dealerships sale their cars).
-> Negotiate 700-800$ off from the dealership
-> Dealership makes 400-500$ (minus bonuses for selling all their cars, and financing/leasing targets reach/surpassed bonuses.. which we know nothing about, but I estimate that it brings their gains from 400-500$ to 750$).

You can also try and negotiate for services, like a or some free oil + filter changes, or discounts on accessories that you may be interested in. But this is as a bonus only. Oil + filter change can be done at other places for cheaper (just be sure you go to a place that offer fully synthetic oil which the car takes and comes with.. at least in Canada).

IMPORTANT: When you negotiate:
- Always negotiate with ALL fees and tax in (minus license plate as that varies). Make that super clear. In the end, you don't care if they charge 500$ documentation fee (say), but reduces the price of the car by, say 750$ + 500$ as a discount (so a discount of: $1,250) (excluding Honda offer)). The final price is what you care about. Don't include winter tires in the price, to me, personally, it makes it harder to track the price of the car.

- Don't deal with monthly payment.. sales rep, loves playing these as they can easily make you think you have a good offer, but really end up with a craptastic one. The period for financing or leasing is something you decide at the complete end. Focus on the price

A tip from me: When you come at the dealership, have a folder in hand, with Honda website prices, and blank papers (for note taking), maybe even paper from unhaggle. DO NOT use them as part of your negotiation. You want to show you know 100% what you want to buy including color and payment option, you already shop around, now it comes down to price. You might get an actual decent offer right away (especially now as they are trying to get rid of the 2017 car). Do no test drive the car (I assume you already done this), just show you have no time to waste, and you are in to deal. NEVER mention competitor prices, else they'll kinda match it, as they'll know you didn't sign for a reason (didn't like the service, for example). Be ready to sign, but don't be afraid to wake away.. you have every right to do, and it will only make them scare in losing the deal. Even if they say no on an offer, act confident that they can do more. Don't be at the defense, be at the attack. "Hello sir, what price you want the car? Give me a price.." say "Free" - laugh, and say to give you their best offer. Do not bend down. Act as if you have another offer in hand, and say push that they can do more. And,. don't go all smarty-ass "I know you make so and so on the car"... that doesn't work. You are shooting yourself on the foot.

Please note that I am not an expert negotiator by any means, what I share is from experience with the dealership in and around Montreal.

Don't bother with wheel locks... they charge you 80$ for aluminum block that is easily by-passed. They are plenty of YouTube video showing you how. Go on Amazon and get steel ones.
I got those:
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B001O0CLPW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I paid 13.99$ before taxes in 2016... I don't know why they are 34$ now... but regardless, assuming you get those at this price, they are still half price from Honda's one. So far, no rust on them, if you wonder (2 winters, going in for the third). Also, they blend very well with the official ones. They are just a tad larger, no one notices unless you look up close, or you know them and what to look for. Note: The size fits the car despite what Amazon says. I confirmed it by comparing the official ones, and from the manufacture website and other people. So if there is something wrong, I am not seeing it, and my tires didn't fall off... yet...

Hope this helps and best of luck! :)
 
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civicdabest-foo

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Don't forget to ask for credit/vouchers at the service department. Some dealers throw in a couple vouchers or a couple $100's worth of service credits to use at their dealer's garage.

Official Honda goodies like coffee mugs and key chains and cheaper lifestyle items are also stuff they will throw in if you nudge them the right way.
 

civicdabest-foo

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The dealership makes around 800-1200$ on the car (although I don't know for the Si if it is something special). Giving you the price on "Honda website" is no deal. Giving you over (which some dealership tried with me, is insulting you to start with).

You have to negotiate. If you can't, try a different dealership. Oh and the "But I have to order and trade with other dealership" excuse, is complete B.S. And that is why you basically pay the sales guy by buying the car from him/her... its his job. That said I am looking at Honda website and I don't even see the Si 2018 listed, so I don't know the price. Oh and the 'But at our dealership we come and share your hand when you service your car with us, we are nice and offer good service". BS. They never do, and their crappy coffee machine asks for money, just to try and make more money on you.

Also, as it has the 1.5L engine, I would be concerned.. maybe waiting for next year until things clear up (hopefully) might be wiser if you want to play it safe, unless you plan to lease and return within the warranty... then, I don't think it matters... I never leased...):
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/crv-oil-contamination/

And at 1100$ tires, they better be Michelin X-Ice Xi3 or Bridgeston Blizzard WS80.
Compare prices with Canadian Tire, especially now as you have specials.

The difference between the Xi3 and WS80, in summary:
- Xi3 will last the longest. People claim 4-5 winters (of course the amount of driving is what determine this)
- Xi3 perform better on ice
- Xi3 has better fuel economy
- Xi3 are quieter.
- Xi3 biggest weakness is driving on slush
- Xi3 are a bit less expensive than the WS80
- WS80 performs the best on snow and slush
- WS80 performs still rather well on ice, but not as good as the Xi 3
- WS80 are said to be nosier
- WS80 doesn't as good fuel economy as the Xi3
- WS80 are said to last 3-4 winters. Past 50-55% tread ware the tires perform poorly and needs to be replaced.

This is from what I collected from this forum and others.

I have the Civic 2016 EX with 16inch wheels, and I got the Michelin Xi3. Excellent tires, but failed me on slush with heavy traffic not moving past 30km downtown Montreal once. The moment I could drive past 30km, I had more control, but under it, I was slipping a lot, more than other cars. But going up hill, on a clean but relatively icy road with compacyed snow. while "everyone else" struggled going up the steep hill, I had full control, and passing the cars. But considering that the days with slush on the roads I took was only twice in the entire winter, and only really last winter... (well it was the second winter for those tires) I am happy so far. But the best tire it would really depends on the roads you take.

A decently-good deal at the dealership, is what I consider the "everyone wins" deal.
-> 750$ off from Honda (WARNING: Honda website says that the 750$ is before taxes... it is NOT. It is after taxes. So it is really 650$ for us in Quebec (yes, this is not legal). Also, reminder: Honda offer does not affect dealership profit margin, it is a discount that Honda does to help dealerships sale their cars).
-> Negotiate 700-800$ off from the dealership
-> Dealership makes 400-500$ (minus bonuses for selling all their cars, and financing/leasing targets reach/surpassed bonuses.. which we know nothing about, but I estimate that it brings their gains from 400-500$ to 750$).

You can also try and negotiate for services, like a or some free oil + filter changes, or discounts on accessories that you may be interested in. But this is as a bonus only. Oil + filter change can be done at other places for cheaper (just be sure you go to a place that offer fully synthetic oil which the car takes and comes with.. at least in Canada).

IMPORTANT: When you negotiate:
- Always negotiate with ALL fees and tax in (minus license plate as that varies). Make that super clear. In the end, you don't care if they charge 500$ documentation fee (say), but reduces the price of the car by, say 750$ + 500$ as a discount (so a discount of: $1,250) (excluding Honda offer)). The final price is what you care about. Don't include winter tires in the price, to me, personally, it makes it harder to track the price of the car.

- Don't deal with monthly payment.. sales rep, loves playing these as they can easily make you think you have a good offer, but really end up with a craptastic one. The period for financing or leasing is something you decide at the complete end. Focus on the price

A tip from me: When you come at the dealership, have a folder in hand, with Honda website prices, and blank papers, maybe even paper from unhaggle. DO NOT use them as part of your negotiation. You want to show you know 100% what you want to buy including color and payment option, you already shop around, now it comes down to price. You might get an actual decent offer right away (especially now as they are trying to get rid of the 2017 car). Do no test drive the car (I assume you already done this), just show you have no time to waste, and you are in to deal. NEVER mention competitor prices, else they'll kinda match it, as they'll know you didn't sign for a reason (didn't like the service, for example). Be ready to sign, but don't be afraid to wake away.. you have every right to do, and it will only make them scare in losing the deal. Even if they say no on an offer, act confident that they can do more. Don't be at the defense, be at the attack. "Hello sir, what price you want the car? Give me a price.." say "Free" - laugh, and say to give you their best offer. Do not bend down. Act as if you have another offer in hand, and say push that they can do more. And,. don't go all smarty-ass "I know you make so and so on the car"... that doesn't work. You are shooting yourself on the foot.

Please note that I am not an expert negotiator by any means, what I share is from experience with the dealership in and around Montreal.

Don't bother with wheel locks... they charge you 80$ for aluminum block that is easily by-passed. They are plenty of YouTube video showing you how. Go on Amazon and get steel ones.
I got those:
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B001O0CLPW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I paid 13.99$ before taxes in 2016... I don't know why they are 34$ now... but regardless, assuming you get those at this price, they are still half price from Honda's one. So far, no rust on them, if you wonder (2 winters, going in for the third). Also, they blend very well with the official ones. They are just a tad larger, no one notices unless you look up close, or you know them and what to look for. Note: The size fits the car despite what Amazon says. I confirmed it by comparing the official ones, and from the manufacture website and other people. So if there is something wrong, I am not seeing it, and my tires didn't fall off... yet...

Hope this helps and best of luck! :)
I gotta try this out lol.

My strategy is to waste as much of their time as possible over Christmas or some time when they aren't busy and their stock is low and then walk out. I usually waste about 2 days with a sales rep close to the beginning of holiday season and make clear my expectations for a deal. Inevitably they will call back with sweeter deal. It's possible to do this without being an A-hole to the dealer btw :D and being courteous.
 

TAXMASTA

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Hey guys ! Im currently looking to buy an Si sedan 2018.
I went to a local dealer today (near Montreal) and he gave me exactly what's on the Honda website.
28 690$ MSRP
34 659$ OTD with winter tires worth 1 100$.

He told me there's only 9 2018 Si in Quebec right now.
Is it a good price ?

It's my first time looking for a new car so I don't know much about how far prices can be negociated.
Did u try the unhaggle website? And as far as I know , no si here in the greater toronto area
 

okaida

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2019 Type R-26048, 2016 VW Golf R
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I just negotiated a 2019 Civic Type R at MSRP. I had to buy some accessories to get it as MSRP but I was going to anyways. Was going for a 2018 but they wouldn't budge on the price so I said if they would do MSRP on a 2019, I'll wait for one. I ordered mine from Edmonton and expect delivery in May 2019. Just thought I would share if anyone else is looking for a Type R.
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