Camaro to Civic, had some questions

Status
Not open for further replies.

Lightning13

Member
First Name
R
Joined
Jan 27, 2020
Threads
1
Messages
41
Reaction score
25
Location
Arizona
Vehicle(s)
2014 Camaro SS 1LE
Country flag
Intro:
I currently own a 2014 Camaro 2SS 1LE with a catback exhaust. It's a beast but it's also 6 years old (1-owner), my DD, and very expensive to maintain. Also "practicality" isn't a word in the Camaro dictionary.

Originally I was looking into getting a Model 3. While that would still be nice, it's impossible to find one for a decent price. They all hover well above $40,000.

Up to Date:
I've done a fair amount of research and I've fallen in love with the new Honda Civic Hatchbacks. The exterior design is phenomenal and the interior looks great too. I know Honda is bulletproof. Can't argue with the cars' price, and the MPG's would be a huge help. But i'm reluctant in a way because I've never owned a CVT, Turbo 4, or FWD. I guess I have a couple of questions i'd like to ask you fine people.

1. I'm looking at getting a 2020 Sport Touring Hatch (CVT). MSPR is 29k, I got a local dealership to agree with 26k flat, EXCLUDING tax licenses etc. Can I do better or is that pretty good? The original salesmen I worked with were bozos but I got this last guys info from Costco Auto. I've also worked with True Car, which helped put me in a good negotiating position. I might push my boundaries and see if they'll do 25.5k and a free window tint. What do you all think?

2. So about that CVT.. I get that i'm going from a 6.2L V8 to a 1.5L turbo 4. I'm not expecting the Civic to do burnouts through 2nd gear, but I would still like some acceptable pickup. The hatchback Sport's acceleration (only trim I test drove) was not a highlight. I've heard ups and downs about the CVT and how they severely limit what you can do. But I still want an automatic with paddle shifters. My question is: Does a Civic with a tune & CAI feel acceptable? Can I drive through an uphill onramp with passion?

I'd ask about the warranty too but I already know a tune & CAI would void it.

3. I'd love to hear some testimony and maybe other points I haven't brought up. Feel free to lay it all out!


Your help / responses are greatly appreciated. I'm ready to move into a Civic this week if everything is good on paper. Thanks!
Sponsored

 

raulnor516

Senior Member
Joined
May 12, 2017
Threads
3
Messages
91
Reaction score
45
Location
O'Fallon, IL
Vehicle(s)
2019 Civic Hatchback Sport
Country flag
Why do you want to go for the CVT over the 6MT on the Sport/Sport Touring? Do you plan on doing any mods besides the intake and tune? If you think you'll end up wanting to push for more and more performance from this car, many people would suggest you go with the 6MT over the CVT.

There are a few members here (@Myx and @xjoshuax89 come to mind) that have CVT models with lots of mods and are pushing ~13 second quarter mile times. I'd say for an engine a quarter of the size compared to your Camaro, you can definitely get strong performance out of these cars considering where we start from.

As far as tuning feedback, @gtman has several threads talking about his experience with flashing, KTuner and Hondata comparisons, etc. I'd highly suggest giving his stuff a read, usually people chime in on the threads with their own experiences as well.

Now, for my feedback. I have a '19 Sport Hatch w/ CVT and paddle shifters, I got it a month ago and have put about 1.5k miles on it so far. I'm pretty heavy footed, and honestly find that the L15B7 engine has got way more pickup than I was expecting from something so small. The paddle shifters are definitely nice, a friend of mine was with me doing a ride-along and mentioned how the paddle shifters really did give the car a "manual" driving feel. I'm planning on getting to my first oil change, putting AMSOIL in it, then grabbing a KTuner to start flashing. While I'm eagerly waiting for that day, I'm still very happy with my purchase and love driving my Civic Hatch.
 
OP
OP
Lightning13

Lightning13

Member
First Name
R
Joined
Jan 27, 2020
Threads
1
Messages
41
Reaction score
25
Location
Arizona
Vehicle(s)
2014 Camaro SS 1LE
Country flag
Why do you want to go for the CVT over the 6MT on the Sport/Sport Touring? Do you plan on doing any mods besides the intake and tune? If you think you'll end up wanting to push for more and more performance from this car, many people would suggest you go with the 6MT over the CVT.

There are a few members here (@Myx and @xjoshuax89 come to mind) that have CVT models with lots of mods and are pushing ~13 second quarter mile times. I'd say for an engine a quarter of the size compared to your Camaro, you can definitely get strong performance out of these cars considering where we start from.

As far as tuning feedback, @gtman has several threads talking about his experience with flashing, KTuner and Hondata comparisons, etc. I'd highly suggest giving his stuff a read, usually people chime in on the threads with their own experiences as well.
Awesome - thank you! I would not complain about 13 second quarter miles that's for sure lol in fact that would be in the ballpark of my 1LE. Doing that with a CVT Civic would make me well more than satisfied. I'd be concerned about the reliability though.

I wanted the CVT over the 6MT not for any one particular reason. I've just had manual for 6 years and wouldn't want another unless it's behind a power house (from the factory that is). I enjoy modding but only to the extent of bolt ons. I'm not the type of person who'd dump money into a monster turbo or costly engine modifications - though those would be fun.

I'm buying new so i'm also trying to keep the warranty in mind.
 

The Vyzitor

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2019
Threads
11
Messages
430
Reaction score
344
Location
California
Vehicle(s)
2019 Civic Sport FK7, 2010 VW GTI MKVI
Country flag
I basically made the same switch, from my 1LE Camaro to a 2016 LX sedan first, and now a 2019 Sport hatchback.

My advice, get the 6-speed. The CVT wasn't bad in the LX... but in the Sport it definitely feels like it's holding the car back.

But the utility of the hatchback is fantastic. The fuel economy is great. I just took a 200 mile round trip this weekend, and averaged over 40 mpg. It honestly handles decent for what it is... some stickier tires and a beefy rear sway would round it out nicely.
 

raulnor516

Senior Member
Joined
May 12, 2017
Threads
3
Messages
91
Reaction score
45
Location
O'Fallon, IL
Vehicle(s)
2019 Civic Hatchback Sport
Country flag
Awesome - thank you! I would not complain about 13 second quarter miles that's for sure lol.

I wanted the CVT over the 6MT not for any one particular reason. I've just had manual for 6 years and wouldn't want another unless it's behind a power house (from the factory that is). I enjoy modding but only to the extent of bolt ons. I'm not the type of person who'd dump money into a monster turbo or costly engine modifications - though those would be fun.

I'm buying new so i'm also trying to keep the warranty in mind.
Gotcha. If you're not planning on doing drags or racing, I think you'd really be fine with the CVT (as I think I will be :p) but keep in mind that the factory limits the CVT to 166 ft/lbs of torque while the 6MT gets 177. I've also got a list of bolt-ons that I want to install, but the ability to let the car do it's own thing when I'm not up for wringing it out is unbeatable with the CVT. My current planned performance progression is looking like this:

Ktuner > FMIC > CAI > Front Pipe + Exhaust > Turbo + Downpipe

For suspension/driving feel : Rear motor mount > subframe brace + Si rear sway bar + accord endlinks > upgraded tires + spring kit

This is part of why I'm so happy with the civic, the thriving mod community with multiple vendor options give so much flexibility with what you want to do.
 


mvela

Senior Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
Threads
17
Messages
1,178
Reaction score
630
Location
Orange, Tx
Vehicle(s)
2018 Honda Civic sedan lx 6mt and 2018 Honda Civic hatchback ex auto
Country flag
Awesome - thank you! I would not complain about 13 second quarter miles that's for sure lol in fact that would be in the ballpark of my 1LE. Doing that with a CVT Civic would make me well more than satisfied. I'd be concerned about the reliability though.

I wanted the CVT over the 6MT not for any one particular reason. I've just had manual for 6 years and wouldn't want another unless it's behind a power house (from the factory that is). I enjoy modding but only to the extent of bolt ons. I'm not the type of person who'd dump money into a monster turbo or costly engine modifications - though those would be fun.

I'm buying new so i'm also trying to keep the warranty in mind.
I think it would be a good idea for you to at least test drive the 6mt so you can pick the one that you like the best. The one thing I can say is you will find the clutch in the civic is more user friendly than the camaro. By that I mean it’s not a work out to use it. I know most of the sports cars clutches can be tough.
 

repeet

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2017
Threads
16
Messages
698
Reaction score
694
Location
Fort Mill, S.C.
Website
jesus7feasts.fyi
Vehicle(s)
'23 BRZ
Country flag
So, if you've never driven a Front Wheel Drive car, you're in for an education. They drive very differently. Having the front wheels pull in the direction you want to go is a real lifesaver in slippery conditions. But if you're looking to drift, or hang your back end out, it's not going to happen with these Civics. They're too well balanced. They are very easy to drive hard, which might also make them boring for someone who likes it to get "exciting". You can't do donuts. The best you can do is throw the car and turn sharply to make a pirouette. It really is a difference.

When I started driving, I drove '60s muscle cars. It's a good thing that you are looking at the CVT, because it's all but impossible to get a strong launch with the Civic manuals. My parents 4 cyl. Front Wheel Drive A/T Camry pulls harder in the launch than my TSP tuned Si.

You definitely need to drive a Civic first, and then drive the Camaro home, in order to make sure that you understand the differences.

All of my introspection tells me that I bought the right car. But emotionally, I wish that I had bought a Camaro.
 
Last edited:

Myx

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2016
Threads
79
Messages
2,166
Reaction score
2,042
Location
Delaware
Vehicle(s)
2018 Honda Civic EX (Hatchback/CVT)
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
Ktuner Tsp Stage 1 tune (or custom), intake, intercooler and downpipe is all I'd suggest and you'll be golden. It's all I have now virtually. I'm running a tick quicker with a used Si turbo though.
 

gtman

Senior Member
First Name
Mitch
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Threads
328
Messages
16,675
Reaction score
24,361
Location
USA
Website
www.civicx.com
Vehicle(s)
2017 Cosmic Blue EX-L Sedan
Vehicle Showcase
2
As far as the CVT, here's my take. And this is coming from someone who has over 25 years experience driving manuals.

The 1.5T / CVT combo is actually rather well matched. The transmission does take some getting used to but it does a good job of putting the power where it needs to be. CVT turbos will beat a manual by a few tenths to 60 every time. And tuning can easily cut a second+ over stock. But, the manual is certainly more engaging.

As far as tuning, it has made a world of difference. I'm pushing about 220whp/250wtq with the TSP Stage 1 and it has easily raised the car's smiles per gallon. That's a pretty to good power to weight ratio with a 2900 lb. car.

Like raulnor mentioned, I've written extensively about tuning with the CVT.

Here's one to get you started:

https://www.civicx.com/threads/have-a-turbo-and-a-cvt-considering-a-tune-read-this.31242/
 
Last edited:

silverrascal

Senior Member
Joined
May 23, 2016
Threads
47
Messages
1,252
Reaction score
1,268
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
2019 Honda Civic EX hatch
Vehicle Showcase
2
Country flag
$25 t0 $26K for a Sport Touring is a good price, imho. That said, the Civic will feel like a slug compared to the Camaro. And especially with the CVT. But for comfort, drivability, reliability and economy the Civic will likely be an upgrade. A tune will definitely help some along with some go fast parts. So long as you understand you're going from a muscle car to a econo "sporty" car, you're good. If you're willing to stick with a manual transmission, the Si is a much better performance alternative with similar creature features to the Sport Touring and the Si generally stickers for less, too.
 


Civics4Ever

Rally Red EXT
First Name
Gene
Joined
Jul 30, 2016
Threads
15
Messages
2,068
Reaction score
2,395
Location
Illinois
Vehicle(s)
04 Civic Sedan LX, 17 Civic Coupe Touring
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
Tune it and still get 38-40mpg. Nothing sweeter.
 
OP
OP
Lightning13

Lightning13

Member
First Name
R
Joined
Jan 27, 2020
Threads
1
Messages
41
Reaction score
25
Location
Arizona
Vehicle(s)
2014 Camaro SS 1LE
Country flag
@The Vyzitor Nice, what year was your 1LE? I don't think it's a bad idea to try the Manual as well as the CVT. I'm just not necessarily in love with the idea of going manual again, but I understand it's more beneficial if I want more power. That MPG sounds like a dream to me lol.

@raulnor516 Thanks! I'm up in the air. I care about the 0 - 60, sure, but I really care for power above 45mph+, which works in my favor with CVT since they can't handle much torque. After some time of ownership, I don't think my list would look too different from yours honestly haha.

@mvela I was pleasantly surprised, the 1LE's 6 speed is a fantastic transmission. Very touchy / sensitive however, and easy to burn. Plus that god forsaken 1st to 4th forced "fuel economy" shift is still annoying. I recall Honda transmissions to be very smooth but I don't know if it can be rushed. When going WOT, I like to row through gears like there's no tomorrow.

@repeet You've hit a lot of points that I was concerned with. The last thing I want is to sell my car and end up regretting it. But I've fallen out of love in some ways - and I hate to say that. The exhaust note is starting to annoy me (what's wrong with me?), the repairs are racking up my maintenance costs, the darn thing will NOT hook on a WOT run. The rear tires will slip all throughout 2nd gear all day, which I find annoying if I just wanna speed past someone on a highway onramp. Or even in the rain, the slightest hit of the gas pedal and those gigantic tires are spinning for their lives.

As long as the Civic is exciting in some ways, I can live with that. And I don't mind the performance being less than what I have now, but I still want some sort of punch ya know.

@Myx That's the (hopefully) future plan! :) I see a lot of posts regarding intercooler. Does that make a big difference in these civics?

@gtman Amazing, thank you. I started reading your thread and will continue to do so after I finish up my responses here. My only concern is breaking the CVT. I saw that video from Hondata regarding how far they could push it before it breaks.. I don't recall what power they tried but the belt just couldn't handle it. I'd be scared to go hard just because they aren't meant to take a beating.

@silverrascal Great! I'll do my best to push down to 25. I'm aware of the power and build difference. I just don't want a snail. I love the other aspects like you stated! I was looking into the SI's but I don't know, something about that hatch just catches my eye.
 

Myx

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2016
Threads
79
Messages
2,166
Reaction score
2,042
Location
Delaware
Vehicle(s)
2018 Honda Civic EX (Hatchback/CVT)
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
Intro:
Up to Date:

My question is: Does a Civic with a tune & CAI feel acceptable? Can I drive through an uphill onramp with passion?

I'd ask about the warranty too but I already know a tune & CAI would void it.
My quick and dirty answer to your question is 'No'. And that's to both of your questions. Just looked up some 1/4 mile times on your Camaro Stock ==> HERE and HERE
Those guys are trapping 112-115mph vs 100-102mph for our CVTs on average. I'm sure that is a whole different feeling (torque) when gassing the Camaro from a roll or going up a hill.

No...you can not drive through an uphill onramp with passion. Just keeping it real with ya! What's passionate to you will probably feel different to someone with a 1.5ltr turbo. ;)
 

silverrascal

Senior Member
Joined
May 23, 2016
Threads
47
Messages
1,252
Reaction score
1,268
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
2019 Honda Civic EX hatch
Vehicle Showcase
2
Country flag
@silverrascal Great! I'll do my best to push down to 25. I'm aware of the power and build difference. I just don't want a snail. I love the other aspects like you stated! I was looking into the SI's but I don't know, something about that hatch just catches my eye.
I hear ya... :)

 

Myx

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2016
Threads
79
Messages
2,166
Reaction score
2,042
Location
Delaware
Vehicle(s)
2018 Honda Civic EX (Hatchback/CVT)
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
That's the (hopefully) future plan! :) I see a lot of posts regarding intercooler. Does that make a big difference in these civics?

Once you go hit Ktuner Stage 2, TSP Stage 1 and Custom tunes....the answer is a big fat YES. Intercoolers make a big difference. I didn't believe it myself until I installed it and gained an extra 2-3mph in the 1/4 mile, with no other changes (On TSP Stage 1).
Sponsored

 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.


 


Top