C&R/PWR Radiator Feedback and Testing

AlphaDigital

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Ok. I tracked with a Koyo on Big Willow, which is a high speed track and my temp gauge was hovering around 70% on a 70F day and I’m not a very fast driver. Definitely slower then as was just beginning to track.
Just to avoid confusion what I was saying is that my oil temps hit 270 on a mid 60s day, which im not concerned about at all.

My water temp didnt go above 230 however.

The oil cooler goes on at the end of this month, so well see how that affects oil temps and overall ECT.

Im interested to see how your cars fare with over 100 degree ambient temps. For me, I probably wouldnt even bother LOL.

 

fatherpain

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The irony is now that I believe I’ve solved the cooling issue (at least for my driving skill level)

I‘ve learned it’s pretty expensive to track with my tires lasting only a few days.. Once the cost of tires comes into play, that $150-250 track day quickly becomes an $800 day, after everything else is factored in (park entry fee, pad, rotor wear, oil, brake fluid and fuel at 6MPG on the track) and I don’t even get track day insurance.

It’s a real tough sell to the wife as we have house projects still and the oldest son will be starting college next year and the youngest is a few years behind, but ready to start driving, sigh.

From now on, I’ll be lucky to get 2-3 days in a year. :)
 
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fatherpain

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Despite being tuned, unfortunately don’t have a means of monitoring oil or water temps. Would have to add a dash display which is more than I’m able to spend at this time, so I am relying on just the OEM display.

At 230F water temp, does your digital temp gauge move off from normal?


Just to avoid confusion what I was saying is that my oil temps hit 270 on a mid 60s day, which im not concerned about at all.

My water temp didnt go above 230 however.

The oil cooler goes on at the end of this month, so well see how that affects oil temps and overall ECT.

Im interested to see how your cars fare with over 100 degree ambient temps. For me, I probably wouldnt even bother LOL.
 

ApexEight

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Despite being tuned, unfortunately don’t have a means of monitoring oil or water temps. Would have to add a dash display which is more than I’m able to spend at this time, so I am relying on just the OEM display.

At 230F water temp, does your digital temp gauge move off from normal?
You can get a water temp readout from Torque Pro, TunerView, etc. I use Torque Pro with a Bluetooth OBD2 adapter and can setup gauges on my phone. IAT is also a helpful one you can get. No oil temp or pressure available though.

Edit: just for full disclosure - this readout is not as accurate/doesn't refresh as fast as a dedicated gauge, but it's better than nothing.
 

AlphaDigital

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The irony is now that I believe I’ve solved the cooling issue (at least for my driving skill level)

I‘ve learned it’s pretty expensive to track with my tires lasting only a few days.. Once the cost of tires comes into play, that $150-250 track day quickly becomes an $800 day, once every else is factored in (park entry fee, pad, rotor wear, oil, brake fluid and fuel at 6MPG on the track) and I don’t even get track day insurance.

It’s a real tough sell to the wife as we have house projects still and the oldest son will be starting college next year and the youngest is a few years behind, but ready to start driving, sigh.

From now on, I’ll be lucky to get 2-3 days in a year. :)
Id opt for a set of tires that wear better for lapping instead of a set of A052s, RE71s, etc. because youre right, it does get very pricey if you cant get a few lap days out of them. My RT660s have been wearing excellent, im 3 events in on them and expect at least another 3-4 events. Im gonna move down to V730s which will definitely drop in stickiness, but hopefully remain consistent in terms of lap times and wear. The way I see it, is itll make me improve in some areas where the RT660 was covering for bad technique or whatever. Im not fast by any means, and im just now starting to chase lap times, but the cooling system is definitely holding me back.
 


AlphaDigital

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Despite being tuned, unfortunately don’t have a means of monitoring oil or water temps. Would have to add a dash display which is more than I’m able to spend at this time, so I am relying on just the OEM display.

At 230F water temp, does your digital temp gauge move off from normal?
Once I get into the 230s, the gauge starts to move towards 3/4s, once youre at about 240 I can confidently say youre at 3/4s of the digital bar.

I have a water and oil temperature gauge installed on the car, but my water temp is off due to the acuity reverse flow hose. it reads about 10 degrees higher than hondata. So when that gauge is reading 240+ I tend to back off.
 

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I was looking at going with V730 on a second set of wheels I had and all seasons on my daily wheels but opted to split the difference and do RT615K+ for both tasks and sell the 2nd set as I really don't track that much and it'd be a hassle for me to swap back and forth. The V730 meaty outside shoulder should do really well with our front heavy camber limited cars. Their price is really good too.
 

AlphaDigital

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In all honesty I feel like a connoisseur of tires, so many brands out there to try out. So far, tires ive driven on include

1. OEM Contis
2. Federal 595 RS Pro
3. Falken RT615K
4. Yokohama Advan Apex
5. Falken RT660
6. Kumho V730 (next)
7. Nankang CRS (next)

So far the best bang for the buck were the Federals, they were less than $600 and ok for stickiness. The 615k and the Advan Apex were about the same in terms of grip, and both priced fairly well. The 660s are the best out of the bunch but also the most expensive at $1200. Very much looking forward to the Nankang CRS hopefully next year. The V730s should serve me well for quite some time I hope.

my next goal is to address some of the engine bay temps by wrapping a bunch of stuff and then potentially upgrading the radiator again to see if there is a discernable benefit from the Koyo to whatever else.

Im not certain im 100% sold on the PWR at this point in time. It sounds like even with the PWR high coolant temps are still a thing, but its ability to bleed off heat and allow for you to get back into it seems to be where it shines? This is per Noah Gaither.


@fatherpain , im interested to see if this is your observation as well. Are you willing to see if this is what you experience at Chuckwalla with Sam? Curious to see how quickly your temps drop during a cooldown lap.

@REDRAGN said the same thing with his temps at COTA with the @Mishimoto radiator. Im actually interested in checking it out more because of that. Ive emailed Mishimoto a couple times to get more information on their radiator design and the fin design but both have gone unanswered.
 

ApexEight

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In all honesty I feel like a connoisseur of tires, so many brands out there to try out. So far, tires ive driven on include

1. OEM Contis
2. Federal 595 RS Pro
3. Falken RT615K
4. Yokohama Advan Apex
5. Falken RT660
6. Kumho V730 (next)
7. Nankang CRS (next)

So far the best bang for the buck were the Federals, they were less than $600 and ok for stickiness. The 615k and the Advan Apex were about the same in terms of grip, and both priced fairly well. The 660s are the best out of the bunch but also the most expensive at $1200. Very much looking forward to the Nankang CRS hopefully next year. The V730s should serve me well for quite some time I hope.

my next goal is to address some of the engine bay temps by wrapping a bunch of stuff and then potentially upgrading the radiator again to see if there is a discernable benefit from the Koyo to whatever else.

Im not certain im 100% sold on the PWR at this point in time. It sounds like even with the PWR high coolant temps are still a thing, but its ability to bleed off heat and allow for you to get back into it seems to be where it shines? This is per Noah Gaither.


@fatherpain , im interested to see if this is your observation as well. Are you willing to see if this is what you experience at Chuckwalla with Sam? Curious to see how quickly your temps drop during a cooldown lap.

@REDRAGN said the same thing with his temps at COTA with the @Mishimoto radiator. Im actually interested in checking it out more because of that. Ive emailed Mishimoto a couple times to get more information on their radiator design and the fin design but both have gone unanswered.
I'ma PM you some fitment questions lol.
 


fatherpain

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No issues using the PWR Track/Race radiator on the street here. Have a vented hood though.


It's a radiator. You just install it.

Anyone daily the Track version and note problems?
 

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I'm leaning toward preferring a front mount oil cooler as well. Sirimoto makes a nice kit, Perrin too. I think it'd be fine with a stock radiator and obviously even better with an upgraded one.
I have not dug into the car enough yet, but wondering about the position of a front mount oil cooler vis a vis the AC position.

Just want to re iterate that hood venting is necessary to get temps down at least to keep the ECU from pulling power. At a very quick track recently in 85F temps, power (as measured by data logging top speeds) didn't change even after 10 laps.
 

fatherpain

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@AlphaDigital yes I’ve been on RE71R and A052. The RE71R wear a little better than the Yokohamas..

Getting the last use out of them this week. Leftover RE71R in the front and more worn A052s in the rear.

R Compound, a top tire shop in our area swear by the Nankang CRs. Grip really well and are supposed to last. That will be my next tire set to try.
 

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I think the Nankings are almost identical to the A052s I.e. fast for a short time, soft sidewall and not much heat resistance. For HPDE or lapping you are much better off with Hankook RS4s or if are willing to change wheels at the track, Nitto NT01s. There is a reason most endurance racers use the RS4
 

fatherpain

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AA2B65F6-ADCF-47A6-B39D-0FFD5C6918BA.jpeg
Report from Saturday 8/6/22:

Ambient temps checked in at 95F instead of the 102F I’d hoped, but was still a good stress test @Streets of Willow:

Decent time according to the Hot Lap app for the 1pm session. Didn’t record the mornings. On worn RE71R front A052 rear.

Conservative track tune 361HP/360 Ft-lbs. on stock turbo and engine.

Oil Honda 0-20W, Honda coolant.

OEM water gauge never moved from normal. Had heater blowing high, but doubt needed to do so.

Cooling mods:
  • Vented hood
  • J’s Racing open grill with center emblem holder. Could get 20% additional airflow if removed.
  • PWR Race Radiator
  • Dream hard lagged OEM water pipe
  • Dream hard lagged turbo heat shield
  • Dream hard lagged DP
  • Dream turbo oil return clamshell
  • HKS oil cooler driver vent mounted. w/C&R Racing core and DEI fire wrapped oil supply and return hoses
  • Acuity reverse hoses
  • Radium coolant expansion tank

 
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