C&R/PWR Oil Cooler Kit Development

[Lust]

I think good oil has no issue with those temps and is actually good to 300 F (according to my sources at Mobil 1). The issue is whether the rest of the engine is happy. For a point of reference apparently the Nissan 370 doesn't go in to limp mode until oil temps of 280 F , a problem easily fixed with an oil cooler. Also a buddy of mine ran his C5Z Corvette up to 300 on numerous occasions with no sign of engine damage ( No limp mode on older Corvettes). I ran an oil to water cooler (oil cooled in the radiator and not separately) for years in my C5Z Corvette with temps often hitting 270 with zero consequences. Before the oil to water cooler, was also hitting 300F

Sure you could run the oil that hot but I wouldn’t be so sure how safe it would be for the engine nor would I be able to tell how much the oil will sheer. Have you done UOAs to get an idea of engine wear at those temps?

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[ayau]

If your car is mainly a street car and only sees a few track days a year, you're probably better off not installing an oil cooler and voiding your warranty. You'll just need to pit as soon as the engine begins to overheat. This may or may not bother people. As soon as you install an oil cooler, you're going to have a pretty difficult time convincing Honda that your aftermarket oil cooler didn't cause your engine to fail even if it technically didn't.

If your car is primarily a track car, already tuned (no warranty), then adding an oil cooler will increase reliability. Realize that you've just added another potential point of failure into your system and you'll need to inspect for leaks periodically.

 

[ApexEight]

I agree that staying under 240F oil temp is ideal, but as mentioned, quality synthetics can resist thermal breakdown until about 300F, but what needs to be considered is oil pressure when you creep closer to that 300F mark as oil that hot will be thin, leading to lower oil pressures, which can lead to spun bearings. I've been trying to figure out if the K20C1 oil pump is a variable pressure unit because track guys seem to fair just fine with 0W20 which should in theory have a really hard time maintaining the general rule of thumb of 10PSI/1K RPM of oil pressure, but so far my efforts have led me to believe it's just a standard K-series gear driven oil pump with no variability. I haven't read of anyone spinning their bearings. This is not the case with FRS/BRZ guys who also have 0W20 called for from the factory. Honda engines and modern synthetics are undoubtedly great, but I still wonder how it all works out ok.

 

[ayau]

I agree that staying under 240F oil temp is ideal, but as mentioned, quality synthetics can resist thermal breakdown until about 300F, but what needs to be considered is oil pressure when you creep closer to that 300F mark as oil that hot will be thin, leading to lower oil pressures, which can lead to spun bearings. I've been trying to figure out if the K20C1 oil pump is a variable pressure unit because track guys seem to fair just fine with 0W20 which should in theory have a really hard time maintaining the general rule of thumb of 10PSI/1K RPM of oil pressure, but so far my efforts have led me to believe it's just a standard K-series gear driven oil pump with no variability. I haven't read of anyone spinning their bearings. This is not the case with FRS/BRZ guys who also have 0W20 called for from the factory. Honda engines and modern synthetics are undoubtedly great, but I still wonder how it all works out ok.

I had the same exact thoughts earlier today. It doesn't seem variable based on my data logs. It stays pretty constant in the 50 psi range throughout the RPM band.

https://www.civicx.com/forum/threads/oil-pressure-track-data.53458/

 

[Lust]

I agree that staying under 240F oil temp is ideal, but as mentioned, quality synthetics can resist thermal breakdown until about 300F, but what needs to be considered is oil pressure when you creep closer to that 300F mark as oil that hot will be thin, leading to lower oil pressures, which can lead to spun bearings. I've been trying to figure out if the K20C1 oil pump is a variable pressure unit because track guys seem to fair just fine with 0W20 which should in theory have a really hard time maintaining the general rule of thumb of 10PSI/1K RPM of oil pressure, but so far my efforts have led me to believe it's just a standard K-series gear driven oil pump with no variability. I haven't read of anyone spinning their bearings. This is not the case with FRS/BRZ guys who also have 0W20 called for from the factory. Honda engines and modern synthetics are undoubtedly great, but I still wonder how it all works out ok.

This is why I only recommend Motul 300v because it doesn’t sheer under high temps. it’s a balancing act of temp vs pressure. Stick with 0w-20 if pressure are okay. This will give you the best efficiency and temperature. Bump up to 0w-30 or 5w-30 if the pressures are on the lower side.

 

[Dave B]

Sure you could run the oil that hot but I wouldn’t be so sure how safe it would be for the engine nor would I be able to tell how much the oil will sheer. Have you done UOAs to get an idea of engine wear at those temps?

No engine tear down. OTOH, I have no issues with loss of power or excessive oil consumption over 8 years of tracking the car. My top speeds by data loggers, have not changed at tracks I am familiar with. Part of the reason I would not bother to repeat dyno the car.

That being said, I know nothing of Honda bearings vs LS6 GM motors so possibly oil temps of 260-270 can damage a Honda engine's internals. OTOH, the CTR doesn't have an oil temp sensor so the engineers must be extrapolating issues from coolant temps (and oil pressure but that would change with oil viscosity).

As for the oil pressure issues when hot, is that not usually an issue at idle and low RPM? I would have thought that most mechanical pumps can produce high enough pressure when revved up. If the engine is in the upper rev range and is not producing much pressure, you have a serious problem somewhere, oil cooler or not.

Corvette guys talk constantly about proper oil pressures, often without specifying original viscosity of the oil or RPM. Hardly useful knowledge.

 

[EmanyoGG]

Hey all,

I’ve been working with Cory with C&R who is the US company associated with PWR. Short backstory is they provide high end cooling components for Formula 1, NASCAR, V8 Supercars, and more. We are looking for a loaner vehicle in the Indiana area that would be willing to drop off their car for a few days to develop a complete oil cooler kit. This kit will be better than everything else on the market. Several serious track enthusiast and myself included have found that the current options on the market do not provide sufficient cooling for even lightly modified applications.

After getting info from C&R, it looks like there will technically be 4 oil cooler options potentially coming to the market. Stay tuned.

Please reach out to me via PM if you’re interested or drop a comment if you have questions.

in for more info as this becomes more available!

 

[Back2Honda]

Has anyone had success with water injection?

 

[boosted180sx]

any update on when it might be available?

is the plan still to use it on the driver side vent area?

 

[Lust]

any update on when it might be available?

is the plan still to use it on the driver side vent area?

No ETA yet. They have a donor car from 4 Piston. Will update when I get more info

 

[flixman]

any new updates

 

[Lust]

any new updates

Nothing yet

 

[Lust]

Just got an update from Cory.

4Piston hasn't been able to drop the car off at C&R. They're now looking for another donor car to start the development. The car will need to be there for a couple of days at the minimum. Please email [email protected] if you're local to them.

 

[fatherpain]

Here’s the C&R core upgrade for the HKS Oil cooler. Received it today... not sure how soon will get around to installing however.. but should be before next track outing 11/21/20

 

[seselectronics]

Here’s the C&R core upgrade for the HKS Oil cooler. Received it today... not sure how soon will get around to installing however.. but should be before next track outing 11/21/20

What is the price of this kit?