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C&D - Lightning lap 2018 : Civic Type R (With Video)

Boostedomega

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I took the type R for a test drive on the weekend, I can now understand the hype behind this machine.

I have always wondered how a 300hp car can achieve such incredible times, but honestly the car feels like its closer to 400hp.

Do you guys think the type R has more power than honda is advertising? Once boost comes on it pulls incredibly hard, almost like a tuned evo 9.



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Driveitlikeuboughtit

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Just stumbled across this thread. Sorry for bringing back from the dead.

You have got to be delusional if you are comparing the CTR to the M2. Don't get me wrong, i am as big of a CTR fanboi as they come but the M2 has been regarded as the best driving BMW since the E46 M3 and one of the greatest BMWs ever made. Mind you, this is not my opinion. This is from countless publications and different media over many different countries. A car doesn't have to have the fastest ring time to be an amazing car. Does the ITR or the BMW 1M have great ring times? No. The truth is you will NEVER run the CTR thru the ring in 7:43 (if that figure turns out to be true altho seems very suspect), and even if you did, driving a properly balanced RWD car around a track is a league above driving a very well tuned FWD. Ive had my fair share of experience with different platforms. But despite the ITR being the best FWD ever built, my "twitchy rear-end" S2k, and or my "underpowered" miata was farrrr more enjoyable to drive than my ITR. Not even comparable.

It seems like you like magazine racing. So let's do it. Forget the Ring time for now. Let's take some more easily accessible tracks so there is a bigger sample size. At the willow springs and laguna seca raceway where the Pros have posted laptimes in both the CTR and the M2, the M2 turns faster laptimes in the hands of pros. But this is not the important part. The important part is that at these tracks, some amateurs and semi pro drivers have turned in laptimes that are in the same neighborhood as the pros. So what does that mean? it means that those laptimes have some level of merit to them, since lots of different sources are turning in similar laptimes. However, even semi pros have had difficulty getting even close to the ring time that Honda achieved in the CTR. Not even CLOSE. Fishy? yes. But we give them the benefit of the doubt because fan boys only bring the Ring argument of the ctr when they feel like they have nothing else to brag about.

Keep in mind that i own neither the M2 or the CTR. I have however driven both about the same amount being that someone close to me owns both and we like to take them both out and swap cars multiple times during each session. I am ALSO in the market for a CTR. I think the CTR is like you said the greatest sporty car bargain in a very long time. It punches above its weight, is one of the best driving cars you can buy for the money right now. I am NOT in the market for an M2. I have a bigger bias towards the CTR and i STILL think your arguments are retarded.

As an enthusiast, you gotta give credit where credit is due. Is the M2 20k dollars better than the CTR? I personally don't know. But it's definitely the better driving car, regardless of laptimes.
What's wrong with you illiterate morons itching for fights - where have I said the M2 is not a good car? I can't believe you wrote all this shit while completely ignoring what I'm saying, which is the M2 is 60k and a CTR is 35k. And the CTR is faster around the 'Ring. Nothing you said changed any of that.
 

Driveitlikeuboughtit

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The Civic Type R ring car was not stock. End of story. It's a nice time but the car had a stripped interior, different tires and roll cage and who knows what other changes Honda isn't telling us about. The ring times are nice and all for bragging rights but they aren't sanctioned and manufactures can do whatever they want. Are we really naive enough to believe that manufacturers only cheat on emissions testing and covering defects?
Roll cage and weight delete to compensate for safety. Tires. That's it. You can speculate about "who knows what other changes" but you don't know and there is no reason for you to suspect otherwise besides, "muh m2 should be faster."
 

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I took the type R for a test drive on the weekend, I can now understand the hype behind this machine.

I have always wondered how a 300hp car can achieve such incredible times, but honestly the car feels like its closer to 400hp.

Do you guys think the type R has more power than honda is advertising? Once boost comes on it pulls incredibly hard, almost like a tuned evo 9.
It's very lightweight for a spacious 4-door, it's FWD so more of the engine power gets to the wheels, it has a wide powerband, and good gearing. All those things add up to it being a quick car on track and on a mountain road. I don't think it's underrated too much, just more power at the wheels due to FWD.
 

heavyD

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Roll cage and weight delete to compensate for safety. Tires. That's it. You can speculate about "who knows what other changes" but you don't know and there is no reason for you to suspect otherwise besides, "muh m2 should be faster."
You cannot go to a Honda dealership and buy a Civic Type R like the one that ran the ring time. There's really no argument or debate here as the car was not stock. It's a nice time but it's as relevant as any modded car on a track.
 

RacingManiac

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FWIW, you can't do that for any of them...most OEM use pre-production cars for ring testing...
 

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RacingManiac

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I mean for what its worth OEM definitely "prep" their cars before, outside of the mandatory safety gears, the data system and probably more optimized alignment and setup. I actually don't think they would deliberately alter the performance but maybe more liberally option the car in ways that is more specific, ie the NISMO GTR N-Attack whathaveyou package for the Nismo GTR, which was a rather extensive option that push the car to something like $250k. But their drivers also are not your average joe. Porsche use their pool of race car drivers to set their times. VW with their Clubsport S had some pro touring car driver. GM actually had most of their times set by in-house development engineers, a lot of which I've met and seen first hand how they can wheel the cars around.
 

yargk

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This is getting a little out of hand. Absolutely stock vs. stock is a little meaningless anyway. All track day driven cars have a little prep: alignment, brake pads, tires. So then the question is, at that level of prep, what's faster? This can be seen if you go to just a few track days and watch the advanced groups closely enough to know who is 3 seconds off a pro and who is only 1 second off a pro. Compare that second set of drivers. The CTR is probably about 2 seconds slower around a 2 minute track than the M2, from what I've seen, which is impressive given the power difference.

Ring times are fun to watch and argue about, and they represent more data than nothing, but most of the time it's not apples to apples. The closest thing to an apples to apples comparison is the German magazine sport auto, since it's independent, often they use the same driver, and I think they make sure the car is stock. They tested both cars and got 8:01, the same time. I wonder if the stability of the CTR on the long high speed stretches helped!

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Gansan

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My friend you need to remember where you are, on a "CTR forum" so you will obviously have CTR fanboys who have blinders on and think it's the best car ever built.
Regarding the famous or should I say infamous CTR Nurburgring lap time, who knows what modifications Honda made to the car, did it weld in extra bracing for increased stiffness, I know for sure that a roll cage can definitely add rigidity and stiffness to a car, did it run on street legal tires, if so which ones, was the timing instrument they used accurate, was the engine in the car tuned for more hp?
So many unanswered questions.
All I can say is that after taking the CTR on an extensive test drive, and owning lots of sports and sporty cars, I know a good one when I drive it, and the CTR is an outstanding car, and great all rounder.
Is the CTR better than the M2, honestly I can't say because I've never driven the new M2, but I have driven the BMW 1 series M and it was a cracker, great car.
Lol the two of you with the "Driveitlikeu<insert word here>it" handles--it took me a while to realize there are two people.

At the time, Honda was pretty up front about what they did to the car, and imagine the consequences for them if they were actually caught lying. VW dieselgate would ensue and I'm sure they don't want that. They said specifically the cage was designed not to add stiffness to the car. It's "floating" so that it is not welded at all the normal points of the passenger compartment. Roll cages are heavy, if you have ever carried the parts, so it's fair to remove some stuff to bring the weight back to where it is supposed to be. They specified they ran on Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires, which are not oem but they were what VW ran on the GTI Clubsport S (oem for them) when they set their record. You can only take their word on whether their engine was tuned or not, but think of the engineers whose honor is at stake. Why would they need to cheat when their management and company gave them permission and blessing to go for the record? They have all the resources to make it happen.

I guess you can say the Vbox or whatever they used was not accurate, but then you can just time it from the video as well. I'm sure if there was enough clamor, they could release the telemetry data like Lamborghini did with the Huracan Performante.

It's not like the CTR is turning out to be a dog in the magazine reviews and yet posts a suspiciously spectacular 'Ring lap time. The lap times and relative ranking with other cars match up.

Edit: While I was writing, yargk posted and makes a point about consistency, or rather lack of it in testing. Very legitimate point. But I also think if you are going for a record, it's totally fair to use the driver who has thousands of track miles of experience in your car and can wring out all the performance it can deliver.
 
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This is getting a little out of hand. Absolutely stock vs. stock is a little meaningless anyway. All track day driven cars have a little prep: alignment, brake pads, tires. So then the question is, at that level of prep, what's faster? This can be seen if you go to just a few track days and watch the advanced groups closely enough to know who is 3 seconds off a pro and who is only 1 second off a pro. Compare that second set of drivers. The CTR is probably about 2 seconds slower around a 2 minute track than the M2, from what I've seen, which is impressive given the power difference.

Ring times are fun to watch and argue about, and they represent more data than nothing, but most of the time it's not apples to apples. The closest thing to an apples to apples comparison is the German magazine sport auto, since it's independent, often they use the same driver, and I think they make sure the car is stock. They tested both cars and got 8:01, the same time. I wonder if the stability of the CTR on the long high speed stretches helped!
I think this is right. The aero on the CTR (which the M2 doesn’t really have) probably gives the CTR the advantage on those high speed stretches and long sweeping turns.
 

UFO CTR

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That's it! I really want to see a direct head to head battle between the M2 and the Type R! Road and Track, Car and Driver or Motor Trend, can you guys make this happen? :popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:
 

neteng101

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I don't get the M2 love - its heavy and almost universally chastised for still having numb steering. An E36 it is not - too heavy, doesn't communicate back to you, even if it might have brute force from the engine department. I've not blinked once at BMWs for years now - they seem to be full of silly gimmicks like hand gesture controls - vs. focusing on the driving experience.
 

kevv_FK8

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That's it! I really want to see a direct head to head battle between the M2 and the Type R! Road and Track, Car and Driver or Motor Trend, can you guys make this happen? :popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:
so true, we need this lol
 

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