Buying Type R Used. If car had a tune reflashed than put back to stock before sale. Is the warranty gone for the new unsuspecting buyer.

tinyman392

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dealers sell certified pre owned usually have extended warranties to entice people to buy used cars from the them. I traded my old civic in that had been tuned and modified while i had it, returned to stock and it had a extended warranty tacked on when the dealership sold it.
The thing is, that extended warranty may end up moot if theyā€™re able to figure out the car was tuned in the past. Iā€™m not sure if CPO actually checks to see if the ECU was jailbroken of if it has been tuned in the past. But say the customer did buy the car and then the motor blows. Then the dealership finds out that the car had been tuned in the past, they donā€™t have to honor the warranty. Sure the customer will end up in a fight with the dealership since they purchased an extended warranty that didnā€™t really mean much, but the claim would still be denied.
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It really doesn't matter how many owners the car had, when the tune happened, and what kind of tune they ran. If it shows it was previously tuned then they don't care who did it or when.

Checking for this type of thing is part of the due diligence of purchasing a used sports car.
I see a type R I wanna buy. Im on dealer lot. How does one check for a previous tune? Not being a smart ass here. You say its buyers due diligence, how would I go about this?
 

tinyman392

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I see a type R I wanna buy. Im on dealer lot. How does one check for a previous tune? Not being a smart ass here. You say its buyers due diligence, how would I go about this?
You could in theory plug a KTuner or Hondata into it and see if itā€™s been jailbroken. Wonā€™t confirm it was tuned, but most likely if jailbroken, then tuned.

Honda generally will check the mileage of the ECU since it was last flashed. If that number is very low and the mileage of the car is very high, then the ECU has been flashed recently (or reset). I believe that pulling the battery for too long on the car will also reset this counter as well. So if it is low, and the seller canā€™t provide reason as to why itā€™s low, Iā€™d be weary of the vehicle in general.

I wonder what else the ECU records? Does it pick up over rev instances?
I do know over revs are logged somewhere. Honda doesnā€™t want to do transmission warranty repairs for someone who has over revved the motor.
 


kefi

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You ask the dealer to check the ecu for a flash.
As far as I'm aware the dealerships themselves, contrary to popular belief, have no way to do this. The factory techs they send out have Bosch diagnostic software but the dealership itself does not. The most they have is the OBD2 distance since flash.
 

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This all makes me concerned now. Bought one certified plus, found out recently the previous owner (Honda tech at the dealership, no less) had it modded thoroughly and running E85, which means a tune was in the mix. Bought the extended warranty as well with all the talk of transmission trouble on the web.
 

Diamond Ned

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What are you going to do? Take a giant, independently owned dealership to court?

26 years of modding cars. 20 or so cars of all different makes and having been active in the specific model's forums, I've never seen a motor/trans replaced under warranty on a previously tuned car.

It's usually something that's checked by a rep from corporate since replacing a new model's motor/trans is a big deal. Once they find out it was tuned, it's game over for that vin's powertrain warranty.
You can literally find stories here of people getting CVTs replaced after being tuned.
 

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You can literally find stories here of people getting CVTs replaced after being tuned.
Well that's not a $6900 Type-R trans and sometimes people get lucky and have it fixed under warranty. Maybe in the boonies somewhere where the dealership doesn't know anything
 


TheCanadian

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You could in theory plug a KTuner or Hondata into it and see if itā€™s been jailbroken. Wonā€™t confirm it was tuned, but most likely if jailbroken, then tuned.

Honda generally will check the mileage of the ECU since it was last flashed. If that number is very low and the mileage of the car is very high, then the ECU has been flashed recently (or reset). I believe that pulling the battery for too long on the car will also reset this counter as well. So if it is low, and the seller canā€™t provide reason as to why itā€™s low, Iā€™d be weary of the vehicle in general.



I do know over revs are logged somewhere. Honda doesnā€™t want to do transmission warranty repairs for someone who has over revved the motor.
Theoretically....if you put it into the wrong gear ...but didn't release the clutch and shifted into the correct gear before releasing the clutch....I'm assuming the ECU/car doesn't care?
 

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You will find opinions all over the place. You will also find anecdotal stories to support everyone's opinions.

You will also find the law is clear (Magnuson-Moss) and those who say that law is meaningless because Honda has bigger lawyers than you do.

One thing that has changed in the recent past is the ability for a single person to make a huge stink and cause all sorts of a public relations nightmare for a dealership or a company. It used to be done via local news "watchdog" shows, no anyone with a social media account and the will to do so, can cause thousand of dollars of reputation damage to a company.

I'm not a fan of such. But I am a fan of people sticking up for their own rights and when wronged seeing it through and getting what they deserve and are legally entitled to, not walking away or backing down because the other guy has lawyers on retainer (which to employ against you will cost them money).

To me the issue is clear, to legally deny your warranty claim they must prove the tune caused the damage (very hard to do). Because claiming your warranty was voided by your tune is simple, easy and as demonstrated here by many people's attitude, is very easy to do. "Oh, your ECU was jail broken, your warranty is voided, and instead you have to pay us for the repair" to many people sounds reasonable and they will submit.

So, in many ways it's not about the legality, but whether you are willing to stand up for yourself, to invest in legal advice, and to be willing to "make a stink" and if the dealership/Honda is willing to put up with the legal costs (thinking you will quit before they do) and to receive the bad publicity (if you are willing and able to make such happen).
 

MadMage

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Well that's not a $6900 Type-R trans and sometimes people get lucky and have it fixed under warranty. Maybe in the boonies somewhere where the dealership doesn't know anything
Or perhaps know their legal obligation and act morally.
 

Harlaquin

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At the end of the day it is simple. If you mod a car you take the risk, if you are not willing to foot the bill then dont mod a car. Dont mod a car an expect a dealer to fix it. Now I know that is not really the topic here. What I am reading is ALOT of speculation and people thinking they know what ecu records and how it all works. When is obvious from 17 different answers no one really knows. Like a previous poster said you can find a story anywhere to support any opinion.

As for warranty work I have had dealers who said no to bad you have mods and then I just go to another dealer and they say who cares yeah we will fix it. I personally know of two moded Rs that had tunes and the dealers fixed the "blown " engines. Not stories not hear say I knew the one guy he is a friend and I personally saw the other and A guy I know at the dealer told me the details. So can you get a blown engine with a tune replaced by a dealer under warranty. Yes absolutely as I know of at least two times it has happened. Does that mean this is fact for everyone? no , no it is not.

Lots of speculation here and little facts. Not meaning that as insulting to anyone I just mean each and every instance is different and each dealer is different and at the end of the day most if not all of us has no clue other then info on the net that is speculation of what the ecu actually records. And I also think many people here think the dealers Know more and give them credit for things that they don't do. MY dealer couldn't figure out how to bleed my brakes to change my calipers. I seriously they have any tech wiz that can get into the ecu and tell you any info at all out side of diagnostic info the computer they hook it to tells them. and then Its only gonna be obd port info as Im am fairly sure no dealer has the specialized equipment to read individual ecus.

AS for the original post and question. If a dealer couldn't test to tell it was tuned when they took it in Im sure they cant tell when you take it for work. I personally have tuned my last 6 cars and had heavy mods to the R. Never once have I had a dealer turn down warranty work and I was up front about it. Only the run around I got about the calipers but ultimately they got fixed. Most any dealer with a head for making money wont turn away any work. If they can slide it past Honda then they are gonna do it. Cause they want to get paid.

If you live in eastern NC or close PM me and Ill tell you a dealer would absolutely does not care if your car is modded they will warranty work it.

and honestly at the end of the day look at this forum. thousands of members and cars spanning 3 years how many blown engine stories are there? Look at the hell some of these people put on the cars on a track, how many blown trans stories do you read? This is a robust car and very very few have "blown" so I think people worry about stuff that is better energy spent else where. The two stories i know of that were blown were both the owners faults. My friends personally was because he set up stuff he should not have and drove it into the ground and killed it. Wasnt the cars fault or Hondas. He still got it replaced under warrenty
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