Buying Type R Used. If car had a tune reflashed than put back to stock before sale. Is the warranty gone for the new unsuspecting buyer.

Phy

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It would be more accurate to say, if you blow up the engine it's on you to prove it wasn't your fault.
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Harlaquin

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I would say there are many facets here. One, if the car is a CPO then it would be the dealers fault I would presume since they "certified it" to have known it was jailbroken. And could be argued they sold you a car they claimed and CERTIFIED was OEM that was not. 2. If you drive it normally and have it for a long time The car does not keep infinite info. Eventually the logs would just show normal operation and no signs of a tune would show up. and with out a tune I seriously doubt they would know or even look for a jail break. and 3. Would they care? I personally know of 2 Type Rs that were fully modded and tuned and blew engines ( the owners drove them like jackasses is why) and Honda replaced them under warranty so.... One of them did have to fight a bit but it was not a hard fight. Ultimately they have to prove that it was the mods that did it.

But simply look through this forum see all the mods and tunes, and now see all the blow engine stories? Nope. Thats because this engine is pretty bullet proof as long as you treat it right. I would not think a use to be tuned car that you are now driving untuned would really present with much if any problems. Unless the previous owner drove it like a cockwaddle, then the jail break is the least of your worries.

Incase you are curious, the one R I know of that blew and engine was a buddy of mine. He got a down pipe and a hondata tune. He then turned on a bunch of stuff in hondata he shouldnt have and tried racing he was going wot with setting he shouldn't have had on and well... He had to fight with Honda a bit but they ultimately replaced the engine under warranty. The second one was a R that was at the dealer I didn't know them. I talked with my friend who works in the parts department and asked why it was there. He said it was a guy from out of state that "blew his engine" and it was being replaced under warranty. He said it had been tuned and modded. apparently he couldn't get it fixed in his state but could here. I dont know the details behind it though.

But this proves what I have always said if you have car issues just shop dealers. 10 might say no but there is always one that will fix it. just gotta keep trying.
 

Harlaquin

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I'd love to see someone who spit out 'Magnuson moss' and got the manufacturer to honor warranty on a previously tuned car.

I'm just speaking from 20 years of modding experience and a ton of experience with different dealerships.

Simple Google searches will tell you what you don't want to hear, but it is how it is.

https://www.stage3motorsports.com/Stage-3s-Stance-Tuning-Your-Vehicles-Warranty.html
I agree, plenty spout off the magnuson moss act. But in reality it does not mean squat. these companies know what they are doing. If they dont want to fix something they wont. The will run you in circles forever. These companies have more lawyers then some countries and they can kill people basically from items they knew were bad and still get away with it. but people think they can fight over a tire or pipe or something and go oh magnasun moss and these companies will just cave and go ok sorry we will fix it.
 

turbociv910

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Explain...
dealers sell certified pre owned usually have extended warranties to entice people to buy used cars from the them. I traded my old civic in that had been tuned and modified while i had it, returned to stock and it had a extended warranty tacked on when the dealership sold it.
 


Z06Chris

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dealers sell certified pre owned usually have extended warranties to entice people to buy used cars from the them. I traded my old civic in that had been tuned and modified while i had it, returned to stock and it had a extended warranty tacked on when the dealership sold it.
Can't they just say you tuned it after purchasing it as a cpo car and then void the warranty lol. Stealerships will find a way. They make so much more off of 'out-of-pocket' than warranty work.
 

19typer

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Basically, if you tune and modify car just be prepared to pay for the damage. Of course there are exceptions but 95% will be denied warranty claim
 

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You will be spending more time and money in court trying to fight it in court. Keep in mind these companies keep very good lawyers on retainer for these very same issues. The chances of you winning in court will be slim.

As Z06Chris has stated it is going to be a uphill battle. Wether you and intend to get the dealership to honor a warranty or not is probably not going to be worth it monetary wise. As stated before if the car is CPO’d then the chance of the car being tuned is slim, as it would have been caught in a inspection.
 

princeRS

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director at a dealership here, figured id chime in. when you bring a modified vehicle in with an issue such as a blown engine, a tech inspects it and reports what they find to corporate. corporate makes the tech run tests and 9 out of 10 times, they send a factory rep out to make the call whether or not it'll be covered under warranty. if/when they run the ecu through their system and see its flashed, you 10000000000% will not have your repair covered
 

Z06Chris

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director at a dealership here, figured id chime in. when you bring a modified vehicle in with an issue such as a blown engine, a tech inspects it and reports what they find to corporate. corporate makes the tech run tests and 9 out of 10 times, they send a factory rep out to make the call whether or not it'll be covered under warranty. if/when they run the ecu through their system and see its flashed, you 10000000000% will not have your repair covered
"BuT mAgNAsoN-mOsS...."

I cringe when I hear those words. It always comes up in a tune/warranty discussion.

Sadly there will be these "tune voiding warranty" discussions until the end of time ?
 


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Tyrannosaurus WRX

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If they somehow knew it was jailbroken, you could potentially end up in a big fight if you have a major engine failure. Honda does not care if you are the first or second buyer, and it doesn't matter if it's a Honda dealership reselling it. Even though jailbreaking in and of itself is safe, they could still argue that tampering with the ECU in any way could cause unknown problems throughout the powertrain.

However.. While the technicians they send out can tell if it's on the stock binary and how many miles it's been since a flash, they can't tell if it's jailbroken without plugging in a Hondata or KTuner unit themselves. It's also very unlikely they're going to be checking your ECU that deeply unless you have a MAJOR failure or you're rocking Hondata badges all over.

I haven't heard of anyone actually running into this scenario since the platform was released.
That's really the big question
 
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Tyrannosaurus WRX

Tyrannosaurus WRX

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So yes the argument of getting a major repair warrantied if you run a tune in your car than try to reflash back to stock is pretty straight forward as something in most cases that is not going to happen. That I think most of us can agree one. The argument can then be said that you pay to pay sometimes and hope for the best. I think regardless of car that has always been the case and will always be debated till the end in every forum.

But this question is something different. What about the rarer situation where the car was reflashed something small stage 0 or 1 for original owner than put back to stock for the sale. Than new driver owns and drives the car for a month or months with no reflash what so ever since they took over ownership, than go to take it into the dealer for warranty work.

Now in this case the dealer would not find any recent tampering or signs of being reset or flashed because 2nd owner did nothing of the sort. It could be months since the last owner did a flash. But the ECU would have to still be jailbroken from the original owner, can't undo that. Or can you? In this case does the ECU alone being jail broken with no recent flashes come up as a red flag despite doing the right thing and using stock tune since 2nd ownership? Is it something they can even look for and see? So basically they would have to find distant reflashes and jail broken ECU as there would be no other foul play.
 

kefi

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So yes the argument of getting a major repair warrantied if you run a tune in your car than try to reflash back to stock is pretty straight forward as something in most cases that is not going to happen. That I think most of us can agree one. The argument can then be said that you pay to pay sometimes and hope for the best. I think regardless of car that has always been the case and will always be debated till the end in every forum.

But this question is something different. What about the rarer situation where the car was reflashed something small stage 0 or 1 for original owner than put back to stock for the sale. Than new driver owns and drives the car for a month or months with no reflash what so ever since they took over ownership, than go to take it into the dealer for warranty work.

Now in this case the dealer would not find any recent tampering or signs of being reset or flashed because 2nd owner did nothing of the sort. It could be months since the last owner did a flash. But the ECU would have to still be jailbroken from the original owner, can't undo that. Or can you? In this case does the ECU alone being jail broken with no recent flashes come up as a red flag despite doing the right thing and using stock tune since 2nd ownership? Is it something they can even look for and see? So basically they would have to find distant reflashes and jail broken ECU as there would be no other foul play.
If they send out a factory rep with Bosch diagnostics, which they will for any major engine work, they'll possibly see it's jailbroken and try to deny your claim. Doesn't matter if you're the second owner or if there was only a conservative tune on there for a short period.

You being the second buyer makes absolutely no difference unless you bought it certified preowned out of the factory warranty, and then you'd have to fight the dealership itself rather than Honda.
 

Z06Chris

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It really doesn't matter how many owners the car had, when the tune happened, and what kind of tune they ran. If it shows it was previously tuned then they don't care who did it or when.

Checking for this type of thing is part of the due diligence of purchasing a used sports car.
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