Brake Upgrade Help - BBK vs Pads + Rotors

[justinslabs54]

Hey all, I need a bit of help trying to solve an issue I've been having with my 2020 Si. It's my daily driver that I usually take out for some spirited driving on weekends. Whenever I heat the brakes up during some rather intense (at least I like to think it's intense lol) driving around curvy roads, the brake and honestly whole car begins to shake under heavier braking. It usually happens after about 20min of hard driving and I assume it's something to do with the brakes over-heating as when I get out of the car the brakes smell pretty bad. I'm thinking I may need some sort of break upgrade to help with the shudder and to get some more power out of them so I've been looking at a bunch of BBks and Rotor + Pad combos...this is where I'm at:

27 Won BBK - Super cool and would definitely be great option. The only things that throw me off is ofc the price of them but also the installation. I'm not intimidated by installing them but I'm not 100% confident in my ability to do it. The most I've done is rip out my center console to install a short throw adapter onto the shifter body. I'm also thrown off a bit by the whole cutting the heat shield and using spacers thing, but those breaks look soooooooo good and I think the benefits are definitely self-explanatory for them.

Two Step Performance Wildwood BBK - Another sweet option that looks so clean. All the problems with the 27Won kit carry over to this, but the price is a bit cheaper. If anyone has experience with this BBK I'd love to hear all about it. I also heard that this kit may need a bit more work to get into the car and that could be a reason why I don't go for it. I need this stuff to be reliable and last for years and years so if it would be worth it to spend more for the 27Won kit then I can do that.

EBC Pads and Rotors - I did a little digging on the EBC Pads and am caught between the red stuff, the yellow stuff, and the blue stuff. Like I said earlier this is my daily so I need something that can handle driving to work but also the heat from slamming on breaks going 60+. I think these could be a really cool option, also because it would be a hell of a lot easier to install the pads vs the BBKs. Once again if anyone has any experience with these pads or can help compare them a bit I would really appreciate it! I'd probably end up pairing this with the EBC BSD Slotted Brake Rotors. The Price is also 1/3 that of the BBKs which is also a plus.

If you guys have any other recommendations or opinions I'd love to hear them. Hope I'm not asking too much. Thanks!

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[Sport-injected]

Ebc red/yellow great for street, not so much for big track. Wilwood BBK is different animal, Iove the setup on my car.

Sounds like your rotors are possible warping,check your lug nut torque when cold as well can loosen up with extreme heat.

 

[bluehatch17]

upgrades are all about what your budget is. There are Brembo kits for like $4k for our cars. Is that sensible or reasonable for most civic owners? Probably not…

it’s not just getting the parts but if you are not able to install yourself. You have to figure in installation costs also.

 

[Austin@Wunderladen Racing]

Brake upgrades really change how these cars perform. The EBC route is a great value for the money, I would recommend the Reds or Yellows for street use like you're describing. The Reds will be quieter and less dusty but the Yellows can handle more heat so if the driving you're doing is a pretty frequent thing may be a better choice. We also carry EBC products on our site!

Si Reds: LINK

Si Yellows: LINK

Si rotors: LINK

I've also been talking about our upcoming brake kit for a while now and we should be announcing it and taking orders later this month! The general overview of the kit is:

• EBC 4 piston calipers - Uses the correct piston sizes to keep brake bias change to under 2%. Has a street and track version, the street version uses dust boots like most OEM fixed calipers do and the track version doesn't use dust boots and comes with stainless steel pistons. The street version also has a choice of 4 different colors
• 350Z rotors - This gives the user the choice of using either 1 or 2 piece rotors, this gives large flexibility in cost for the customer as well as easy to source replacements. The rotor is also 324x30mm which has a much greater thermal capacity than the stock rotor so it able to handle way more heat and abuse.
• The pad shape which is used has a huge range of pads for both street and track use
• Fits under most 17" wheels (we still need to see what fitment behind stock wheels is like)
• Pads changes are much faster and easier than stock calipers or OEM style fixed calipers. Also these calipers use spring clips to help reduce noise from the pads
• Also because I take a lot of pride in it, everything in the kit is made in either the US or the UK!

We're still finalizing stuff but expected prices are $1300 without pads or rotors, and $1600 with EBC pads and EBC rotors.

Here's an old pic from when we were doing mock up with them (ignore the caliper being upside down)

 

[Sport-injected]

Brake upgrades really change how these cars perform. The EBC route is a great value for the money, I would recommend the Reds or Yellows for street use like you're describing. The Reds will be quieter and less dusty but the Yellows can handle more heat so if the driving you're doing is a pretty frequent thing may be a better choice. We also carry EBC products on our site!

Si Reds: LINK

Si Yellows: LINK

Si rotors: LINK

I've also been talking about our upcoming brake kit for a while now and we should be announcing it and taking orders later this month! The general overview of the kit is:

• EBC 4 piston calipers - Uses the correct piston sizes to keep brake bias change to under 2%. Has a street and track version, the street version uses dust boots like most OEM fixed calipers do and the track version doesn't use dust boots and comes with stainless pistons. The street version also has a choice of 4 different colors
• 350Z rotors - This gives the user the choice of using either 1 or 2 piece rotors, this gives large flexibility in cost for the customer as well as easy to source replacements. The rotor is also 324x30mm which has a much greater thermal capacity than the stock rotor so it able to handle way more heat and abuse.
• The pad shape which is used has a huge range of pads for both street and track use
• Fits under most 17" wheels (we still need to see what fitment behind stock wheels is like)
• Pads changes are much faster and easier than stock calipers or OEM style fixed calipers. Also these calipers use spring clips to help reduce noise from the pads

We're still finalizing stuff but expected prices are $1300 without pads or rotors, and $1600 with EBC pads and EBC rotors.

Here's an old pic from when we were doing mock up with them (ignore the caliper being upside down)

Nice, I thought you were going with AP calipers initially?

 

[Austin@Wunderladen Racing]

Nice, I thought you were going with AP calipers initially?

AP calipers were the initial route but they're not as street friendly of an option as the EBC calipers. The AP can't be had with dust boots, and only come in a hard anodized finish so no color choices. They also use a different pad shape which doesn't have many street pad compound options. And the nail in the coffin was AP taking months to get us calipers which wouldn't make it viable for us to consistently offer the kit.

 

[Sport-injected]

AP calipers were the initial route but they're not as street friendly of an option as the EBC calipers. The AP can't be had with dust boots, and only come in a hard anodized finish so no color choices. They also use a different pad shape which doesn't have many street pad compound options. And the nail in the coffin was AP taking months to get us calipers which wouldn't make it viable for us to consistently offer the kit.

That all makes good sense! The EBC calipers look really nice.

 

[Vincent@27WON]

Hey all, I need a bit of help trying to solve an issue I've been having with my 2020 Si. It's my daily driver that I usually take out for some spirited driving on weekends. Whenever I heat the brakes up during some rather intense (at least I like to think it's intense lol) driving around curvy roads, the brake and honestly whole car begins to shake under heavier braking. It usually happens after about 20min of hard driving and I assume it's something to do with the brakes over-heating as when I get out of the car the brakes smell pretty bad. I'm thinking I may need some sort of break upgrade to help with the shudder and to get some more power out of them so I've been looking at a bunch of BBks and Rotor + Pad combos...this is where I'm at:

27 Won BBK - Super cool and would definitely be great option. The only things that throw me off is ofc the price of them but also the installation. I'm not intimidated by installing them but I'm not 100% confident in my ability to do it. The most I've done is rip out my center console to install a short throw adapter onto the shifter body. I'm also thrown off a bit by the whole cutting the heat shield and using spacers thing, but those breaks look soooooooo good and I think the benefits are definitely self-explanatory for them.

Two Step Performance Wildwood BBK - Another sweet option that looks so clean. All the problems with the 27Won kit carry over to this, but the price is a bit cheaper. If anyone has experience with this BBK I'd love to hear all about it. I also heard that this kit may need a bit more work to get into the car and that could be a reason why I don't go for it. I need this stuff to be reliable and last for years and years so if it would be worth it to spend more for the 27Won kit then I can do that.

EBC Pads and Rotors - I did a little digging on the EBC Pads and am caught between the red stuff, the yellow stuff, and the blue stuff. Like I said earlier this is my daily so I need something that can handle driving to work but also the heat from slamming on breaks going 60+. I think these could be a really cool option, also because it would be a hell of a lot easier to install the pads vs the BBKs. Once again if anyone has any experience with these pads or can help compare them a bit I would really appreciate it! I'd probably end up pairing this with the EBC BSD Slotted Brake Rotors. The Price is also 1/3 that of the BBKs which is also a plus.

If you guys have any other recommendations or opinions I'd love to hear them. Hope I'm not asking too much. Thanks!

Do recall our kit is a full kit, lines, rotors, pads, brackets, and caliiper.

Spacers are only required on OEM wheels or those with an offset that is generally higher then 40+.

We also have a full step by step install guide to help out.

 

[Ducota]

I'm running Wilwood 4 piston Superlite, EBC sounds like a good option. Either way 1 piece replacement disc are much cheaper. Maybe if I tracked the car I'd consider other options.
Wilwood will squeak if you don't properly bed in the pads even so I still get and occasional squeak
afer some aggressive driving.

 

[Spunkmire]

Running the 27won BBK here. Install was super easy with all the included hardware. They've been to the track with me a few times and I can't say enough good things about them.

I've paired them up with some ceramic hawk pads and the braking is just unreal. Yes they're expensive. Good parts aren't cheap and cheap parts aren't good.

 

[DadBodMod17]

If you aren’t going to put the car on the track, just upgrade the rotors/pads. If track use is in the future plans, go BBK…

just my $.02.

 

[Pearl.FC2]

Hey all, I need a bit of help trying to solve an issue I've been having with my 2020 Si. It's my daily driver that I usually take out for some spirited driving on weekends. Whenever I heat the brakes up during some rather intense (at least I like to think it's intense lol) driving around curvy roads, the brake and honestly whole car begins to shake under heavier braking. It usually happens after about 20min of hard driving and I assume it's something to do with the brakes over-heating as when I get out of the car the brakes smell pretty bad. I'm thinking I may need some sort of break upgrade to help with the shudder and to get some more power out of them so I've been looking at a bunch of BBks and Rotor + Pad combos...this is where I'm at:

27 Won BBK - Super cool and would definitely be great option. The only things that throw me off is ofc the price of them but also the installation. I'm not intimidated by installing them but I'm not 100% confident in my ability to do it. The most I've done is rip out my center console to install a short throw adapter onto the shifter body. I'm also thrown off a bit by the whole cutting the heat shield and using spacers thing, but those breaks look soooooooo good and I think the benefits are definitely self-explanatory for them.

Two Step Performance Wildwood BBK - Another sweet option that looks so clean. All the problems with the 27Won kit carry over to this, but the price is a bit cheaper. If anyone has experience with this BBK I'd love to hear all about it. I also heard that this kit may need a bit more work to get into the car and that could be a reason why I don't go for it. I need this stuff to be reliable and last for years and years so if it would be worth it to spend more for the 27Won kit then I can do that.

EBC Pads and Rotors - I did a little digging on the EBC Pads and am caught between the red stuff, the yellow stuff, and the blue stuff. Like I said earlier this is my daily so I need something that can handle driving to work but also the heat from slamming on breaks going 60+. I think these could be a really cool option, also because it would be a hell of a lot easier to install the pads vs the BBKs. Once again if anyone has any experience with these pads or can help compare them a bit I would really appreciate it! I'd probably end up pairing this with the EBC BSD Slotted Brake Rotors. The Price is also 1/3 that of the BBKs which is also a plus.

If you guys have any other recommendations or opinions I'd love to hear them. Hope I'm not asking too much. Thanks!

I won't be in the exact same scenario as you, but i track my civic LX and all I did was pads, rotors didn't make too much of a difference. But I got Hawk Performance track/autox pads, and they lowered stopping distance, but more importantly, eliminated brake fade, and the amount of heat produced. They still run hotter than a BBK would, but for cost effectivity it was pretty good! Now it won't be the exact same, if you are planning on tracking, and cost isnt an issue, try out the pads. If you dont plan on tracking, I would stick with just pads. The only reason why I would think it wouldn't work for you is because you would obviously be hitting higher top speeds. Why I think it could work is because my local track is a lot of high speed braking so it definitely produces a lot more heat.

 

[pinhead66]

We're still finalizing stuff but expected prices are $1300 without pads or rotors, and $1600 with EBC pads and EBC rotors.

Is that $1600 for two-piece or one-piece rotors? If it's just one-piece rotors then that would seem a bit high considering the 27won kit is two-piece rotors for just a little more.

 

[st4xor]

Brake upgrades really change how these cars perform. The EBC route is a great value for the money, I would recommend the Reds or Yellows for street use like you're describing. The Reds will be quieter and less dusty but the Yellows can handle more heat so if the driving you're doing is a pretty frequent thing may be a better choice. We also carry EBC products on our site!

Si Reds: LINK

Si Yellows: LINK

Si rotors: LINK

I've also been talking about our upcoming brake kit for a while now and we should be announcing it and taking orders later this month! The general overview of the kit is:

• EBC 4 piston calipers - Uses the correct piston sizes to keep brake bias change to under 2%. Has a street and track version, the street version uses dust boots like most OEM fixed calipers do and the track version doesn't use dust boots and comes with stainless steel pistons. The street version also has a choice of 4 different colors
• 350Z rotors - This gives the user the choice of using either 1 or 2 piece rotors, this gives large flexibility in cost for the customer as well as easy to source replacements. The rotor is also 324x30mm which has a much greater thermal capacity than the stock rotor so it able to handle way more heat and abuse.
• The pad shape which is used has a huge range of pads for both street and track use
• Fits under most 17" wheels (we still need to see what fitment behind stock wheels is like)
• Pads changes are much faster and easier than stock calipers or OEM style fixed calipers. Also these calipers use spring clips to help reduce noise from the pads
• Also because I take a lot of pride in it, everything in the kit is made in either the US or the UK!

We're still finalizing stuff but expected prices are $1300 without pads or rotors, and $1600 with EBC pads and EBC rotors.

Here's an old pic from when we were doing mock up with them (ignore the caliper being upside down)

Looking forward to hearing more about this kit. There are other good options out there, but there are some unique aspects here that are going to be compelling for certain applications.

Does the "track" variant come in an anodized finish or painted?

Do you happen to know the FMSI number for the pad shape?

Can I re-use the stainless lines that work with my stock (Si) calipers?

 

[Austin@Wunderladen Racing]

Is that $1600 for two-piece or one-piece rotors? If it's just one-piece rotors then that would seem a bit high considering the 27won kit is two-piece rotors for just a little more.

That is with one piece rotors. The kit can be purchased without rotors if one wanted to supply their own. If you look at many 2 piece rotors out there from reputable brake specific companies (Stoptech, PFC, Paragon, Girodisc etc.) prices are usually in the $800-1200 per pair of rotors. So while we do have plans to offer 2 piece as an option, it won't be as cheap as other kits on the market.

I'd love to be able to offer it at a lower price point but that's the number range that makes sense for us. We could have made it cheaper by going to a Chinese or Taiwanese supplier but we opted to use domestic and UK produced components which raises our cost a fair bit. When it comes to something as important as brakes paying a bit more for tight quality control is worth it to me. I don't want to sell someone a product I could have any doubts about especially when it is has potential to cause serious harm in the event of a failure.

Also, please don't read this as a dig against anyone else's products. I'm not here to bash other companies' products that they've worked hard to develop and produce, I wanted to give a thorough response because this is something we've discussed internally very thoroughly.

Looking forward to hearing more about this kit. There are other good options out there, but there are some unique aspects here that are going to be compelling for certain applications.

Does the "track" variant come in an anodized finish or painted?

Do you happen to know the FMSI number for the pad shape?

Can I re-use the stainless lines that work with my stock (Si) calipers?

The track variant only comes in a grey hard anodized finish. Only the street variant calipers are colored (red, yellow, blue, black). EBC says their coating on the street calipers won't fade from heat like OEM coatings do and I'll be putting that to the test this season!

I've not been able to find an FMSI number for it but some of the common shape references I've found thus far are:

• EBC = DP002
• Raybestos = R767.17
• AP = CP3215D50
• Project Mu = F1076
• Cobalt = AP2
• Hawk = HB110
• Ferodo = FRP216H
• Wilwood = 8517

Yes your current brake lines will work! At the moment the price includes new lines but we may make that an option for those who already have upgraded their lines which would reduce the base price of the kit.

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