Brake Info thread

[Donk232]

This thread is glorious .
While my 1st choice would be dc5r calipers, I can't find them under $700+. So, I'm going to do the tl-s brembos as a 2nd choice. S2000 rotors are lightest, but tl-s closest to stock.
This leads me to my question, can someone explain/link me what the thread inserts are for the caliper holes?
Thanks!
Edit: or know where I can find remanufactured dc5r calipers

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[toastyJ]

This thread is glorious .
While my 1st choice would be dc5r calipers, I can't find them under $700+. So, I'm going to do the tl-s brembos as a 2nd choice. S2000 rotors are lightest, but tl-s closest to stock.
This leads me to my question, can someone explain/link me what the thread inserts are for the caliper holes?
Thanks!
Edit: or know where I can find remanufactured dc5r calipers

The TL-S Brembos have M14 Caliper bolts and the Civic Calipers are M12. You either have to drill out the Civic hub to accept the M14 bolts or Hondanicx suggested you use "thread inserts" but I haven't found any examples of someone going that route.

 

[pinhead66]

DC5creations has plug and play TL-S calipers that are machined properly to fit our cars and uses TL-S rotors.

https://www.dc5creations.com/products/big-brake-kit?variant=39460292984965

I'm actually very interested in going this route but the only hold up for me is that the TL-S rotor is 2mm smaller than the Si rotor which isn't an issue unless I decide to track the car in the future.

 

[toastyJ]

DC5creations has plug and play TL-S calipers that are machined properly to fit our cars and uses TL-S rotors.

https://www.dc5creations.com/products/big-brake-kit?variant=39460292984965

I'm actually very interested in going this route but the only hold up for me is that the TL-S rotor is 2mm smaller than the Si rotor which isn't an issue unless I decide to track the car in the future.

Appreciate the link. I wanted to go with the TL-S Brembo's initially but I didn't want to drill anything.

I also looked into the CTS-V 4pots and found out the bolt spacing is 130mm center-center. It would require a custom bracket to be mounted to our vehicles. I also couldn't find the right sized rotors.

 

[Hondanickx]

DC5creations has plug and play TL-S calipers that are machined properly to fit our cars and uses TL-S rotors.

https://www.dc5creations.com/products/big-brake-kit?variant=39460292984965

I'm actually very interested in going this route but the only hold up for me is that the TL-S rotor is 2mm smaller than the Si rotor which isn't an issue unless I decide to track the car in the future.

If you're worrying about the brake power its increased with the calipers anyway.You'll not even notice 2mm smaller in diameter its only 1mm less surface where the brake pad hits the disc.
If it was 2mm less thick that would be much worse.
The cooling capacity of the disc is much more important on track.
Using discs with cooling pillars instead of the regular cooling vanes helps .

 

[Pe0plez]

I put on different pads and it still squeaks, maybe I should check the brake shim. Thanks

Did you ever figure this out? I have the exact same noise coming from my kit.

 

[civicren]

Did you ever figure this out? I have the exact same noise coming from my kit.

my shop cant figure out why it makes the noise. only extra info i could observe is that the noise is more frequent when humidity is high.

 

[civicren]

I am running the same setup while using sleeved 350Z front rotors. During very low speeds, like 5-10mph I hear some kind of squeeling, which I believe comes only from the left side.It sounds like something metal is touching on something metal and its not constant, its like one specific point of the disc for instance is touching on something else. I am using OEM wheels with +20mm Eibach Spacers.

Do you have similar issues?

Same problem with my 4pot wilwood caliper using 320mm front rotors.
left front. squeaking noise. low speed.

 

[Ducota]

Same problem with my 4pot wilwood caliper using 320mm front rotors.
left front. squeaking noise. low speed.

Check the caliper mounting holes. One on mine was slightly binding when I torqued it down. Ended up drilling all 4 to give it some play. resurfaced the discs and added new disc Hawk ‎HB521F.650 and CLOSELY followed break in procedure and problem solved. 3k miles zero squeals. Currently breaking in my ACT clutch, gonna be a long 500 street miles. (holes are standard so use a metric bit so you don't end up with an oversized hole)

 

[Pe0plez]

Check the caliper mounting holes. One on mine was slightly binding when I torqued it down. Ended up drilling all 4 to give it some play. resurfaced the discs and added new disc Hawk ‎HB521F.650 and CLOSELY followed break in procedure and problem solved. 3k miles zero squeals. Currently breaking in my ACT clutch, gonna be a long 500 street miles. (holes are standard so use a metric bit so you don't end up with an oversized hole)

Still working on eliminating my squeal. I have a new set of pad shims that are set to arrive Thursday. Hopefully those help.

But just for clarification, are you saying you had to drill out the holes on the actual calipers themselves? Or on the car where the adapter attaches? Red or blue circle? I assume you mean the red one.

Thanks!

 

[Ducota]

Still working on eliminating my squeal. I have a new set of pad shims that are set to arrive Thursday. Hopefully those help.

But just for clarification, are you saying you had to drill out the holes on the actual calipers themselves? Or on the car where the adapter attaches? Red or blue circle? I assume you mean the red one.

Thanks!

Yes
Wilwood hardware is standard. So if you use a metric drill bit, it will just slightly ream the hole. Inspect the holes (blue and red)if you don't see any thread marks you should be ok. Also follow break in procedure. I’m currently at a little over 3k miles since the redo and not a peep.
This worked on the Wilwood 4 piston Superlight 1 piece disc 12.6 (No shims required).

 

[slwkrt]

I recently installed fastbrakes/TSP performance 4 piston wilwood brake kit.
https://www.fastbrakes.com/product_p/10th-gencivic-si-12.6sl.htm
https://www.twostepperformance.com/...-kit-w-12-6-rotors-for-2016-honda-civic-black

I installed with 20mm spacer. and the clearance is plenty with stock 18in wheels(18x8+50).
this is the rough measurement of clearance. Maybe a thinner spacer can clear as well.

Thanks for posting this. Was looking at that kit the other day, but I wasn't sure if it'll clear an 18x8 +45 without a spacer.

For those of you with multi-piece rotors and squeaking, double-check your rotors. I noticed this on my other car with a front Wilwood setup. There was zero loctite on the bolts that connected the hub to the rotor. So the bolts had started to back themselves off from vibration. Caused a lot of squeaking, squealing, and shaking. Some of the bolts had backed themselves out enough to start getting bolt heads sheared away.

We’re 99% sure they came like this from Wilwood.

 

[BanquoX]

Finally got ahold of some crv hybrid 320mm rotors and they do not fit the odyssey caliper setup. 3mm off roughly. Hits the caliper bracket. So the nissan rogue 3rd row rotors are still the best option on this setup.

 

[Fctouring]

I recently installed Si (front) brakes on my 18 LX sedan and I have some fine details I would like to share in case somebody decides that they want to do it to their non-si Civic. I did this over the course of 1 day taking frequent breaks and I had a helper when I bled the system. The whole thing cost me around 450$ for the entire kit with 3 year old ebay calipers, R1 E-line slotties, consumables, and r1 Ceramic pads (I'll address the pads later).
Shout out to OP because the info in the first post on these is spot on.

Firstly the differences. The Si calipers are only slightly larger than the base calipers while using the same size piston meant to accommodate a much larger rotor and pad surface. The weight difference is only 2 pounds between them when I weighed them. The pedal feel between them isn't drastically different because most of the actual hydraulic hardware is the same.

The rotors are noticeably taller, heavier and thicker. the pad surface is slightly larger than the standard one but the contact surface is further out from the centerline.

These all bolt up to the knuckle with no adapter. You do need to bend the dust shield to fit everything due to being so thicc.

Now for one of the more important parts: wheel fitment

My set of summers are sitting on 18x8.5 +45 wheels and they fit with no issues.
the 16 inch dealie steelies don't fit, but that was expected.
You can however 100% fit these under factory 17 inch alloys without needing spacers, but its pretty tight.
The main upside of this whole setup is exactly that: better brake capacity than stock without being forced onto 18 inch wheels.

Now, the complications

The ESC on modern cars are meant to operate within a certain range of braking friction and you are reducing the car's ability to adapt to skids by changing that value without adjusting the ESC tuning. I have no idea how to go about changing this. By only changing one axle you are also changing the brake bias. This is a problem with 10th gens because the AHA brake steer function that gives these cars such strong roadholding clearly overbrakes the inside front tire and scrubs like a mf when you start pushing towards the limit of traction. I have no idea how the massive 3 piston frankenbrake setups work when my tiny surface increase caused such a noticeable dynamic problem.

My solution? R1 Ceramic pads. lower friction, weaker bite. They seem to work with my ABS and esc perfectly, but the pedal travels more and there's just a tad bit of fade if you aren't managing them towards the bottom of a hill. It's easier to ease onto the brakes at least, and Heat Capacity is significantly higher than base brakes though due to sheer rotor mass.

This upgrade makes sense if you are doing spirited road driving in your daily with friends, but This specific upgrade is not track-ready and the fk7 autocross/Competitive drivers that would be interested in this will be likely disappointed with the result considering that it is exactly as much effort as installing an actual aftermarket car specific BBK. If you want better brakes underneath your 17 inch factory wheels though, this is just about the best option.

EDIT* grammar

 

[L8apex]

The ESC on modern cars are meant to operate within a certain range of braking friction and you are reducing the car's ability to adapt to skids by changing that value without adjusting the ESC tuning. I have no idea how to go about changing this. By only changing one axle you are also changing the brake bias. This is a problem with 10th gens because the AHA brake steer function that gives these cars such strong roadholding clearly overbrakes the inside front tire and scrubs like a mf when you start pushing towards the limit of traction. I have no idea how the massive 3 piston frankenbrake setups work when my tiny surface increase caused such a noticable dynamic problem.

You may be overthinking your vehicle stability control. Yes it can and will apply one or more calipers to help mitigate a skid. but it’s primary input is still wheel speed, not brake pressure or brake friction or tire friction for that matter. The system can’t and doesn’t sense any of those. It only senses wheel speed and steering input. So when it senses a skid. It will pulse the brakes until it is satisfied the wheel sensors and steering angle are no longer adding up to a skid condition.

What you’re doing essentially by adding larger brakes (same with increasing tire friction through larger and of stickier contact patches) is allowing the VSC to work less. The larger the brake is, the less it has to work when called on to apply a stabilizing brake force. The VSC does not necessarily apply x amount of force to the caliper blindly when it senses a skid. It applies and monitors wheel speed so it knows whether to continue applying, increase, or decrease the frequency it’s applying the brake on that caliper.

If you’re worried about brake bias, then that’s a valid concern, but I still believe the VSC can compensate since it’s still just only monitoring the difference in all the wheel speed sensors. But the correct way to remedy this isn’t by handicapping the front brakes by lowering their friction capacity. You should upgrade the rear calipers to the Si as well.

That’s what I have in my Sport Hatch now. Front Si calipers, pads and rotors, and rear Si pads and rotors. The Sport Hatchrear calipers are the same as the Si, just sitting on a taller bracket to space out for the larger Si rotor. I suggest this as your next stage. The braking isn’t an earth shattering improvement (obviously) but the feel is more secure and balanced with Si front and rear.

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