Blew my engine on a 4krpm 2 step cold start.....

[typemismatch]

I didn't realize 2 step did some of the same things anti-lag did. I have done no-lift-shift but never tried 2 step or antilag. I think 2 step/launch control is enabled on the TSP Stage 1 tune. I don't think anti-lag is.

I realized I hadn't clarified that and was editing when you responded.

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[NoKz]

So I looked up a video. What a dumb fucken thing to do your car in any situation.

Two-Stepping, when correctly used, has it's applications.

Proper Application: Dragstrip




Wrong Application: Ricer (He built it specifically for 2-Step Competitions)

 

[NoHonor937]

It’s also extremely practical for blowing your engine lol. Second blown engine on 2 step. One was hot one was cold.

 

[charleswrivers]

For launch control [2 step] you generally add some fuel and retard timing to build boost in a turbo car. Extra fuel and retarded timing makes the exhaust hotter and gives it more velocity/energy to spool the turbo. What this can do if you sit on the 2 step too long is heat up the exhaust valves and turbo. At that point you risk dropping a valve which can throw a piston through the block depending on how they make contact.

On NA cars this isn't too risky because you aren't adding turbo heat back through the intake which compounds the issue.

With a cold motor, everything is wiggling around a little more than a warmed up motor since clearances haven't closed and tightened everything up.

With a cold engine, cam timing and fuel/ignition trims can add to the risk.

Anti-lag does something similar, but it's triggered when you are off the throttle and in motion versus being at a standstill and holding the throttle. The settings are different but the idea is the same. Anti-lag is used to keep the turbo spooled between shifts which is mostly useful in racing. Listen to the crackles you here in rally races, that's anti-lag

Long story short, don't 2 step a cold motor.

Got it. I've never tried either one, though I've hit cancel on my steering column and seen it pop to 3000 RPM and bump around for setting launch control. I got what anti-lag was right away... saw what bad it could do to a turbo specifically. While I know it has its uses on a drag strip, it was something I knew I'd ever do on a car I'd like to not get damaged. I though 2 step launch control only had RPM oscillate between 2 points for whatever reason. I didn't they were so similar in the dumping of fuel and timing retard... which the big difference the stationary and holding RPMs like vanilla launch control and the other in motion.

I actually thought about trying launch control, not realizing it wasn't just vanilla launch control on the TSP Stage 1 for fun. Now...? I'll just use keep doing my old fashioned give it some gas and lift the clutch. The whole idea of throwing a slug of fire through my exhaust valves into the turbo just to try to get some more boost, despite those benefits creates...



...we've got the old tricks like a bypass valve that can vent or recirculate to help keep the turbo from stalling. I'm sticking with the old things... not like I'm racing the car for pinks...

 

[PowerPerLiter]

The regular 2 step "launch control" is just an adjustable rev limiter. Anti-lag is the only thing that would manipulate timing and fuel.

 

[PowerPerLiter]

Why antilag was given as an option to use is beyond me when most of these cars have warranty to worry about and stock catalytic converters. We dont even need it as most are delaying response and boost to preserve stock clutches anyway....we have 1800-2200 rpm capable spooling cars....anti lag? why. LOL.

 

[gtman]

Yep, anti-lag and two step are different animals. Here's a nice overview of two step by Jason at Engineering Explained.

 

[charleswrivers]

Yep, anti-lag and two step are different animals. Here's a nice overview of two step by Jason at Engineering Explained.

This is what I originally thought. Now folks are talking about 2 step being like a stationary anti-lag. Based on this, running the 2 step launch control would just hold RPMs at the default 3000 RPM without all the popping from throwing balls of fire through your exhaust valves and into your turbo. So are folks calling things wrong and using anti-lag while stationary? @KTuner ... care to weigh in?

(edit) In watching... it actually sounds like 2 step can either be either flavor and similar to anti-lag depending on it's implementation.

 

[charleswrivers]

Based on the video, if it was like an OEM fuel cut which is what I'd thought it was like, I was interested in using it. In my mind, it would be like the OEM rev limiter, just at a launch RPM that's be much lower.

The amount of timing retard if you're using an ignition adjust method does sound like it can make a system that may still not be too hard on the exhaust valves, turbo and cats... turn into...

...if they just aren't able to take it. We may just be finding that our engines aren't able to take prolonged use. I know the Ktuner help page actually calls out anti-lag being for race use and prolonged use not being good... or something to that effect. I think I remember there were settings to adjust the amount of retard for anti-lag specifically. I don't remember if there was anything for 2 step. If our 2 step operates in a manner similar to anti-lag and is more on the heavily retard side like the video shows where we're throwing throwing active combustion through the exhaust valve... it probably should be noted that it's also 'for not prolonged race use' as well. I looked on Ktuners online help and while I found antilags description, I didn't see 2 step launch control to brush up on what it really was and what were able to control with it. I may have just missed it.

 

[gtman]

I found another vid discussing two step and comparing it to anti-lag. For somebody who isn't an expert on this (me, for example, lol), it's a nice little tutorial.

Note: Start watching the video at the 4:55 mark to skip the guy talking about his MR2.

 

[KTuner]

This is what I originally thought. Now folks are talking about 2 step being like a stationary anti-lag. Based on this, running the 2 step launch control would just hold RPMs at the default 3000 RPM without all the popping from throwing balls of fire through your exhaust valves and into your turbo. So are folks calling things wrong and using anti-lag while stationary? @KTuner ... care to weigh in?

(edit) In watching... it actually sounds like 2 step can either be either flavor and similar to anti-lag depending on it's implementation.

The Launch control is a limiter for launching, aka 2-step. With the anti-lag feature turned on you're generally retarding timing to help the turbo spool to achieve higher power output at launch. Turbos run off of exhaust gas, so even with just launch control if there's exhaust gas passing through the turbo will spin a little bit.

 

[charleswrivers]

I found another vid discussing two step and comparing it to anti-lag. For somebody who isn't an expert on this (me, for example, lol), it's a nice little tutorial.

Note: Start watching the video at the 4:55 mark to skip the guy talking about his MR2.

Based on the implementation they showed right after 4:55 in the R34, it was a ignition retard based system, similar to anti-lag rather than a fuel cut similar to a OEM rev limiter based system that EE had spoke about. Agreed there are differences, but the similarities involve the same things that can risk damage.

In the end, we all get a choice whether to use extra features. Up to this point, I'd chose not to but considered 2 step launch control, thinking it was just a fuel cut. If it works based on a retard similar to anti-lag... then I'll keep not using it and launch the car using my right and left foot like I always have and has never made a car tell me

 

[d1zguy]

That's unfortunate to hear. I have been tuned on my SI since 4 miles on it. Ran basemap, vit tune, then TSP stage 1 and it was rock solid. Only gripe I had was the terrible clutch. Had 23k miles of driving while tuned on it and the engine was superb on it when traded in at that time... (no black soot on exhaust)

I've ran anti-lag twice, TSP stage 1 doesn't have it. I never beat on it when cold though.

 

[joshhjackson2112]

That's unfortunate to hear. I have been tuned on my SI since 4 miles on it. Ran basemap, vit tune, then TSP stage 1 and it was rock solid. Only gripe I had was the terrible clutch. Had 23k miles of driving while tuned on it and the engine was superb on it when traded in at that time... (no black soot on exhaust)

I've ran anti-lag twice, TSP stage 1 doesn't have it. I never beat on it when cold though.

You never had black soot on your exhaust? Is that possible? I have been cleaning my exhaust of black stuff since before I did any modifications.

 

[typemismatch]

From my experience setting up 2 step for my drag car on s300, there are fuel enrichment and timing retard settings. Doesn't mean you have to use them, but retarding timing and adding fuel help build boost faster.

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